Stupid ass administration crackdown on 'piracy' (illegal to-

[Battlesmurf]

Notice I say "piracy". They are going to try to crack down on many things (most I could kinda care less- but some are terrible terrible things). I.E.- they want to crack down on bypassing DRM. Really? I guess I'll just stop buying anything with DRM in it right now. They want to try to crack down on things you *might* do. (I.E. if you were to search for "Deathsmiles Xbox Torrent"- you could be punished.

Case in point- I have downloaded games and cracks for DRM off the internet in the past. It doesn't sound like the fact that I did it - so I would not have to handle my original discs nor the fact that some DRM is actually harmful or bad to paying customer's computers or games- would matter in the slightest.

Anyways- what say you?

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=18815

[Damocles]

Same old shit. Politicians not having a fucking clue about the subject of proposed laws. Fun times to be had when it's mixed with the backing of the RIAA and MPAA. I do, however, love the "imminent infringement" clause in that upcoming bill. We're already on a streak of what people "might" do, so what the hell.

Also...

According to the Obama administration, the RIAA, and MPAA, the world economy is pretty much doomed if we don't start prosecuting pirates at home and abroad.

DOOMED!!!!

[Jockel]

[Ed Oscuro]

And don't forget that caring is sharing.

Pirates - the most caring folk in the world!

[GaijinPunch]

My main problem w/ this is that these dickhead companies starting running around w/the lawsuit stick but fail to embrace technology. Napster, anyone? So stupid. I pay for just about all my shit (I download TV which is free anyway) so these laws will likely have little to no effect on me. I think both sides are at fault, and anything that empowers big business to be assholes is bad.

[brentsg]

Any potential legislation that makes me think of Tom Cruise is very, very bad.

[antron]

VPN + Proxy = RIAA/MPAA Fail

[oli_lar]

Same old shit. Politicians not having a fucking clue about the subject of proposed laws. Fun times to be had when it's mixed with the backing of the RIAA and MPAA. I do, however, love the "imminent infringement" clause in that upcoming bill. We're already on a streak of what people "might" do, so what the hell.

Same as here in the UK (Digital Economy act). They didn't know about VPN proxy etc, so they had to revise it. Its laughable how little they - and their 'expert' advisor-consultants know. Many politicians voting on the issue didn't know what ISPs are, for example, despite not knowing what ISPs are means you don't understand sections of the act.

Not to mention it was pushed through in the wash-up

None of the press even mentions it anymore though

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

What they gonna do? Sue everyone? I don't know anyone who hasn't done some sort of copyright infringement, and I don't mean getting a Mario tattoo. Movies, music, textbooks, software, games, and stuff like that.

[Ex-Cyber]

What they gonna do? Sue everyone? I don't know anyone who hasn't done some sort of copyright infringement, and I don't mean getting a Mario tattoo. Movies, music, textbooks, software, games, and stuff like that.

Most likely they'll go for some extrajudicial solution a la the DMCA takedown process, i.e. require ISPs to take the media cartels' word for it that someone is infringing copyright and cut off access. Then the lawsuits can be saved for the handful of people who know how to file a proper counter-notice.

[gameoverDude]

Democracy my ass. The USA system looks more like feudalism. Mogens Jallberg said "In democracy, it's your vote that counts. In feudalism, it's your Count that votes.". Well, our Senators are our Counts.

I think it should be the people who vote on the laws or ask that certain ones be repealed. The Senators should only be allowed to propose laws, not ram them down our throats while we can't do shit about it until the next election. ACTA says Fuck You to the 4th Amendment. It would allow what is currently seen as unreasonable search & seizure. The Founding Fathers would be crying in Heaven (well, they probably are now).

DRM malware is the real thing that needs to be banned. It doesn't deserve to be legally sanctioned.
What about 14+ year old games? Generally, no one profits off of them- except resellers who mark the prices up into triple digits. Any enforcement should be for stuff currently in print, not OOP.

Obama needs to back up his "whose ass to kick" talk on BP. I want some corporate execs to take that walk of shame down a prison hallway.

[KBZ]

The fight against Big Brother style copyright law is a real david and goliath fight, but with enough David's you can do anything!

but first.... you gotta get MAD!

None of us will ever get a seat at the bargaining table. But with enough pressure, politicians start to fear for their future and will at least push back the campaign to constantly spy on us, dictate how to use technology, and well.... manage our digital rights.

That has been the case up here where American influence has brought us very close to something much like the DMCA.

in other words, the fat cats wont give up, and neither can we eh?

[Ex-Cyber]

What about 14+ year old games? Generally, no one profits off of them- except resellers who mark the prices up into triple digits. Any enforcement should be for stuff currently in print, not OOP.

This is a serious problem with copyright in general. For one thing, many commercially unsuccessful works never get more than one fairly small print run, with many of those copies eventually being destroyed as unsellable. Many of these are in danger of being lost forever when the few remaining intact copies eventually decay. Libraries are often exempted from copyright restrictions for preservation purposes, but there are only so many librarians/archivists who do this kind of work, while it's been estimated that upwards of 95% of total works created are out of print. Companies also sometimes outright abuse the control that copyright offers, such as Disney's practice of the "Disney vault", where they deliberately limit availability of certain movies to predetermined time windows that come up once or twice a decade for each film.

Much of this problem could arguably be solved with a compulsory license regime for out-of-print works - if a work is out of print, anyone could republish it by paying a royalty (rate specified by law) to the copyright holder (or, if the copyright holder cannot be found, to an escrow fund which the copyright holder could later claim). There's already a law like this in the US for music compositions, which does not even require them to be out of print (which is why musicians can legally record cover versions of songs written by musicians who despise them). However, there are some treaty-related difficulties with that IIRC (though nowhere near the problems with radically shortening the term or abolishing copyright entirely).

[Mortificator]

Downloading copies of media is not and can never be theft. Anyone who says it is is either being deceptive or deeply stupid.

[Ex-Cyber]

Downloading copies of media is not and can never be theft. Anyone who says it is is either being deceptive or deeply stupid.

There is a situation where, while it's still not theft, unauthorized copying can be as bad as -- or worse than -- theft (depending on the circumstances): leaking of material meant for internal/private use only. Many custom software packages of this type exist, as do e.g. demo tapes made by some musicians. That said, in such cases it's also arguable that the controlling act of misconduct is the initial leak, not the subsequent downloading.

[Damocles]

I only saw this today. I chuckled.

[Ed Oscuro]

Downloading copies of media is not and can never be theft. Anyone who says it is is either being deceptive or deeply stupid.

There is a situation where, while it's still not theft, unauthorized copying can be as bad as -- or worse than -- theft (depending on the circumstances): leaking of material meant for internal/private use only. Many custom software packages of this type exist, as do e.g. demo tapes made by some musicians.

If the custom software packages or demo tapes include sounds of underage horse necro rape, then maybe it's "worse than theft" because it is going to land their ass in jail. But seriously, how many of your garden-variety pirates are getting ahold of internal use only stuff? Good reason to watermark stuff before it's ready to hit the prime time, when possible. Also a bit suspicious of the claim that there is some software package or demo tape out there that is that critical to the superiority of a company / group / individual that its leak is going to lose them so much money. With a musician, they still sell that shit through the outmoded methods the RIAA pushes, in addition to Amazon / iTunes, and people will still get the officially released version. Doesn't strike me as likely to cause ownership disputes because they will have their production materials. On the "special software" front, there's quite a bit that can be done to make an internal format less useful to people outside, like it being adapted for binaries. For example, it would be pretty suspicious if somebody released maps in the format of Proprietary Game Engine X but didn't have a license.

Also, we still have lolis, so TAKE THAT CANADA!!!

[Damocles]

The only thing worse than DRM is physical software protection. Back when I was still designing theatrical lighting I used a program called WYSIWYG to do quick mock-ups. As with many programs in that price range, it needed a big-ass dongle to save or plot. God forbid you break that sucker during a time crunch. Thank bejeebus it doesn't make financial sense to stick those on "normal" software.

[Ex-Cyber]

But seriously, how many of your garden-variety pirates are getting ahold of internal use only stuff?

"Garden-variety pirates" usually don't (think more along the lines of hackers/crackers and disgruntled employees), and of course most illegally copied software/media doesn't fall into this category. The audience for this kind of thing is usually much smaller.

Also a bit suspicious of the claim that there is some software package or demo tape out there that is that critical to the superiority of a company / group / individual that its leak is going to lose them so much money.

Do you not think that, say, Intel would lose a considerable bit of their competitive edge if their internal simulation and design tools for the next Core/Pentium family were leaked? As for the demo tape example, it wasn't meant to be about economic damage but more about invasion of privacy. Sometimes musicians decide that demos are fit for public consumption and release them. Other times they feel that those versions are simply too unfinished to represent the standard of work that they want to release for public consumption.

The only thing worse than DRM is physical software protection. Back when I was still designing theatrical lighting I used a program called WYSIWYG to do quick mock-ups. As with many programs in that price range, it needed a big-ass dongle to save or plot. God forbid you break that sucker during a time crunch. Thank bejeebus it doesn't make financial sense to stick those on "normal" software.

That's really just another form of DRM. Nintendo arguably used that scheme on "normal" software for years with their lockout chips, though in that case the "dongle" was integrated into the cartridge and not keyed on a per-game basis. The funny thing is that many dongle-bound programs still get cracked and released, though I seem to remember hearing about some relatively high-profile package (music production software; the name escapes me at the moment) where the cracker basically said "this is going to be the last release of this program that I crack because the dongle is just too tedious to reverse-engineer".

[ZOM]

Speaking of dongles, Autodesk pre-license manager/server products come to mind, like 3dsmax 2.0 and on. And yeah, they were easily cracked even before release - so it surely was a wise (and more cost-effective) idea to jump on the license-manager train like other high-end software houses did at the time. Not that that helped all too much either for them or other companies: IIRC Softimage 3D's license manager could be tricked to parse false license files from a "virtual server"(locally) by installing the MS loopback adapter driver.

[Specineff]

I hope that ISPs chime in and complain. It would be a clustercuss of chaos (not to mention detrimental to their business) to try and prosecute someone just because they have the potential to download copyrighted content. What's next? Pre-approved searches in which you send your request, and if it there is no potential for infringement, you get your results back?

[Damocles]

What's next? Pre-approved searches in which you send your request, and if it there is no potential for infringement, you get your results back?

Actually, I don't see that as being far-fetched. The companies would hate it, and litigation would surely ensue, but I can see the government setting up a database of ever-growing blacklisted search terms.

...perhaps leading to the rise of non-US based search engines?

[system11]

Prosecution for possible intended copyright infringement? I assume someone is spinning this, hard.

I agree with copyright. Here is how it should work: Company releases copyright 'stuff', with adequate fair use clauses, and no DRM or 'digital controls' that screw the consumer. In return, they should be allowed to easily cut the ISP connections of and/or prosecute people demonstrably proven to have pirated their goods.

Trouble is DRM is rife and fair use nonexistant, it's all one sided. They're still legally in the right though, you have absolutely no fucking justification for taking their stuff for free. None. At all. If it's not worth the price label then you've chosen not to consume said product. With music it's getting much easier to buy DRM free now at least, anything other than obscure bands is available with a few clicks in mp3 format.

[Ed Oscuro]

I agree with copyright. Here is how it should work: Company releases copyright 'stuff', with adequate fair use clauses, and no DRM or 'digital controls' that screw the consumer. In return, they should be allowed to easily cut the ISP connections of and/or prosecute people demonstrably proven to have pirated their goods.

I was thinking along these lines earlier. Agree with this 100000%.

As you say, though, the problem with DRM is that there's no real demanding pushback from everyday users. Needs to be a letter-writing campaign or something. On the bonus side it would save creators of copyrighted materials a lot on DRM initiatives, and free programmers to work on more productive things.

In other 'net news, A Pink letter day!

[gameoverDude]

The only thing worse than DRM is physical software protection. Back when I was still designing theatrical lighting I used a program called WYSIWYG to do quick mock-ups. As with many programs in that price range, it needed a big-ass dongle to save or plot. God forbid you break that sucker during a time crunch. Thank bejeebus it doesn't make financial sense to stick those on "normal" software.

That's really just another form of DRM. Nintendo arguably used that scheme on "normal" software for years with their lockout chips, though in that case the "dongle" was integrated into the cartridge and not keyed on a per-game basis. The funny thing is that many dongle-bound programs still get cracked and released, though I seem to remember hearing about some relatively high-profile package (music production software; the name escapes me at the moment) where the cracker basically said "this is going to be the last release of this program that I crack because the dongle is just too tedious to reverse-engineer".

That music package is Cubase.

Like bloodflowers said, I agree that piracy of stuff with real commercial value should be punishable. Just not the way the RIAA does it (i.e. Jammie Thomas) by suing people for six-figure sums. I buy music from Amazon- I won't bother with ITunes, and Zune "zucks".

Big Content needs to stop flipping honest users the bird.

[Specineff]

At the risk of giving the RIAA an idea, what is going to keep me from connecting a DAT or Minidisc recorder to my computer's optical digital out when playing something off Itunes? If they dare to disable my computer's output when I play their stuff, they better be prepared to catch hell.

[Ex-Cyber]

At the risk of giving the RIAA an idea, what is going to keep me from connecting a DAT or Minidisc recorder to my computer's optical digital out when playing something off Itunes? If they dare to disable my computer's output when I play their stuff, they better be prepared to catch hell.

They already had that idea several years ago, it's just not mandatory yet because too many people still use XP and/or old GPUs that don't have the necessary evil baked in (for the video side of it). See also this thingy.

[system11]

At the risk of giving the RIAA an idea, what is going to keep me from connecting a DAT or Minidisc recorder to my computer's optical digital out when playing something off Itunes? If they dare to disable my computer's output when I play their stuff, they better be prepared to catch hell.

A better question is: Why buy from iTunes?

Check out 7digital - everything is DRM free, most is 320k mp3 - and it's 100% legit.

[jonny5]

At the risk of giving the RIAA an idea, what is going to keep me from connecting a DAT or Minidisc recorder to my computer's optical digital out when playing something off Itunes? If they dare to disable my computer's output when I play their stuff, they better be prepared to catch hell.

A better question is: Why buy from iTunes?

Check out 7digital - everything is DRM free, most is 320k mp3 - and it's 100% legit.

aside from the DRM, that is my main complaint with itunes...really low bitrates....anything less than 320 is retarded in this day and age....hell, gimme flac or uncompressed wav any day.....i would even pay more...196k mp3 sound like shit! might as well be streaming

tbh, i still try and get CD's if i can....but i mostly support independent artists, so i get them direct from them...then i just rip them to wav and shelf the cd....

i buy more out of support of the artists....having a higher bitrate is just a bonus

on the flip side of things, without 'downloading' i think a lot of smaller artists would never get heard....some musicians are even making there music available online for free download(cuz its gonna get pirated anyway) and asking people to buy a copy if they like it....i think this is a smart way of going about things

like i have tons of music from bands i never would have heard had i not been given a copy or downloaded it cuz it sounded interesting...and then i went and sought out the artists and bought there music...if it was shitty, i deleted it after a listen and saved myself wasting money on shitty product

there is soooo much shitty music out there that i find it very hard to take the risk and buy something new without checking it out first....plus i dont want to support a mediocre product

and there is also extremely rare and out of print stuff too, that i would never find otherwise...i listen to a lot of 70-80s prog rock/italian movie soundtracks and stuff like that is almost impossible to get physical copies...if it was even released...ive got stuff that is the audio ripped off VHS and shit

same deal with old 70-80s horror flicks....try finding physical copies of a lot of that stuff...good luck....

i really dont think that digital piracy is something with a blanket solution....but i definitely think they need to focus on current stuff, and fuck right off about old and out of print material that has long stopped generating any kind of revenue for any involved artists or distributor...and its only available on ancient dying media like VHS and vinyl,if that, purchased from a second hand market

to be clear,i do disagree with pirating current releases of stuff(without a purchase to follow)......

[CMoon]

I think Netflix is going the right direction. Pay a monthly fee, watch/stream as much as you want. A solution like this for all media is probably the way to go. Honestly, it isn't even worth storing the media when you know you can watch it/listen to it again whenever you want to. I imagine the companies which hold the rights would get paid in accordance to the number of hits/streams/whatever.

Obviously the flat monthly fee charged to customers would have to be enough to pay the rights holders, but as soon as a company got too greedy, the service could cut their affiliation with them, meaning they'd fall immediate prey to piracy. This would allow for some degree of checks and balances.

I don't pay for any sort of cable now (and haven't for years), but an all media server that allowed streaming access (or downloadable content for music--perhaps that had to be renewed through continued subscription) would not only be worth it, but could ultimately solve the whole DRM problem.

People forget that the current situation of rampant piracy was more or less created by the industry that wanted to charge $20 per album and prohibit sales of used albums (I'm sure the parallels are there for movies and other medium.) The creation of an all media server with flat subscription fees would force the hands of right holders to either get real or get pirated.