Uber newbie upscaler questions

[spadgy]

I keep reading about the XRGB2+ and its contemporaries, and am really going for the proper newbie guides, but I still feel out of my depth in grasping the fundamental point of these devices (I don't even really understand the distinction between the VGA connection and the Video Graphics Array display standard (they are related right?)). See - I'm even unlear as to what VGA is and why it's so good

Really, what is the prime function of the XRGB2+ with regard to games? They make old games look good, but I really know very little more than that.

Is it that they make old games look nice on LCD/Plasma screens that otherwise make pre-HD stuff look a mess?

If that's the case, why do I sometimes hear people mention hooking up something like a PSN title to a CRT via an XRGB2+?

My current set up is is all consoles (except NES and Wii) and supergun to a Sony PVM via RGB cables. (The monitor came with a little box that connects to the screen's BNC RGB hook-ups, and says Y-U-V on it. That's where I plug my Supergun's Scart, but I don't really understand that. Y-U-V is high high quality component right?)

If I can make my set up better, I want to, but maybe I don't even need an upscaler.

[Elixir]

I see you've been reading my blog, hahaha.

Okay, in brief: The majority of consoles, in particular the PS2, can't automatically upscale directly via VGA like the Dreamcast can, so it needs an upscaler. The XRGB1, 2, and 2+ all upscale SD games to maximum quality, providing you're going through SCART, D-Terminal or Component.

XRGB2 has a PCB mode which caters to different Hz of different games (hello Seibu), but only the 2+ has this, so Supergun owners want this.

XRGB2+ supports D-Terminal and Japanese 21pin (Japanese SCART). Brand new, it comes with a whole bunch of adapters like Component -> SCART (JP) and Component -> D-Terminal. Euro RGB/SCART is out of the question, trying to use it with any XRGB unit will most likely damage it.

An XRGB1/2/2+ can be used with current gen stuff too, such as the Wii, or PS3 to play PS1/PC-Engine (it's how I do it) or Wii to play Virtual Console stuff (SNES/Megadrive/etc). The downside is that actual Wii/PS3 games usually have forced widescreen, or just aren't made for non-HD.

XRGB3 is different. It can be used with current generation (HD) stuff, ie. 360, PS3 and Wii. The Wii and PS3 don't support VGA cables, so it's useful if you want to play either of these consoles on a monitor instead of a HDTV. Of course, you can also upscale previous gen stuff into HD, and it'll have that Nearest Neighbour, MAME-like feel. Think playing a SNES game through an emulator on your PC.

In my case, the PS2 I have won't actually read PS1 discs. I hook my PS3 up to my XRGB2+ to play PS1 titles on it; my HDTV lags and PS1 games look awful on it. It doesn't take long, since I have Component and HDMI both connected to my PS3, and the Component connected to my XRGB2+ (via a Component -> D-Terminal adapter) and HDMI connected to my HDTV, so I just need to switch display settings in order to switch from CRT to HDTV. It takes about.. 30 seconds?

I use my HDTV for PS3 games and PSN exclusives, since there's no lag as they're current gen, and not emulated. Since PS1 emulation on the PS3 is pretty much perfect (unlike the Japanese PS3 CECHA model wherein the PS2 emulation is not perfect, which I covered in a blog entry ages ago) and since I'm not that much of a collector, I just buy PS1 classics for PS3 and play them the same way you would if you were running a PS2 via an upscaler.

I don't know the value of these things but I got my XRGB2+ brand new with a bunch of adapters for around 12,000 yen shipped. The HD Box Pro is a good alternative to the XRGB3, although it's limited on connections.

[spadgy]

I see you've been reading my blog, hahaha.

You got me!

Thanks for the detailed answer Elixir. I'm crazy busy at work with E3 right now, but I'll give your responce (and that great Hazard City scanlines feature) a read on the train home tonight.

[gray117]

http://www.hazard-city.de/

^ Presume you've peeked at fudoh's great articles?

Basically vga is high res capable rgb. VGA as an acronym can stand for many things/ranges... however a 'vga signal' is typically associated with a rgb 31khz signal with separate H+V sync [as opposed to 15khz with combined sync seen from standard jamma/scart rgb signals] ...

The vga connector can be found attaching various kits that output other signals - used since its a fairly robust and compact single cable setup.

As for detailed use of xrgb - elixir seems to have it all down - nothing for me to add there

However, in examining your setup it basically sounds like you've got all you need but ... What model is your pvm? I'd be curious to see if we could eliminate what seems to be a component adapter from the setup [just in case its adding any lag/color variance] - but it's probably not interfering significantly, if at all...

Secondly 240p via this setup is great, but if you want to play 480 content or above you may want to explore playing on an lcd. (For example I can't stand the crt scan flicker you get when playing 480i content on a crt.)

Which basically means seeing how (best) your lcd scales (and lags) via all of its inputs.

Commonly people will observe the best results [on balance] by inputting via a vga input on an lcd since this is less likely to be post processed by your tv to the extent that it does other signals.

To further improve performance on vga [or indeed other inputs such as component] you may well find using a scaler to get input to as near as possible native resolution of the lcd will improve the look and input speed/lag of the display - basically leaving lcd's own internal scaler less to do/mess up

Key things to look out for -

240p management - See how well or badly your tv copes with this... liklihood is that it will look rough/blurry even if the lag is low. This is when we begin to consider scalers...

480p management - a quick line doubling operation will create 480p from 240p or 480i content [such as can be seen on xrgb - with or without fake scanlines]. Often this process is quick since it requires little overhead compared to scaling an image. If your tv gives a nice result with 480p signals you may find it unnecessary to further upscale the picture to 720/1080 etc. You may even find your tv does an acceptable job of de-interlacing 480i content all on its own.

IF the tv does not give good results with 480p be aware that the xrgb may not be enough on its own for you since its scaling to higher resolutions is not often the fastest.

480i management - few scalers/tvs do an amazing job of properly de-interlacing 480i content to 480[or above]p content. This may not be important to you, and it's something I can live with personally, and honestly live with often with ps2 s on lcds... but I did buy fudoh's up1280 so I didn't have to

[neorichieb1971]

I've used an XRGB2 on a VGA CRT and it worked pretty good.

Recently bought an LCD screen and used with the XRGB2 and it looked shite.

The idea behind the device is to use screens which are sold in the shops. You cannot really buy an RGB monitor anymore.

I would imagine the XRGB3 is much more customizable for LCD screens. I wouldn't mind seeing some screenshots of it in action.

[Fudoh]

I wouldn't mind seeing some screenshots of it in action.

there are lots of screenshots in the XRGB-3 thread in here or my website*. The XRGB-3 has two operating modes. One's an enhanced XRGB-2+ linedoubling mode in which you can add scanlines. The other is a scaling mode in which the picture can be upscalied to Full HD (or other PC resolutions) but you can't use scanline emulation anymore.

* http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

[spadgy]

Sorry guys - I let this topic go a little fallow. Thanks for all your help; it looks like I've got some reading to do!