San Andreas sex mod

[D]

http://www.geenstijl.nl/paginas/hotcoffeemovie.html

It was discovered by a fellow dutchmen.
I'm so proud.

[Herr Schatten]

I would never date a woman who has polygons missing in her armpit.

[D]

I would never date a woman who has polygons missing in her armpit.

What? and risk the pressence of hairy armpit polygons.

My advice: be happy with what you've got

[Elixir]

I'm pretty sure there's sexual concent in SA without any "mods" needed.

[zaphod]

The content is there, but permanantly censored out. you can't change the censor without a cheat device or hacking ther files.

[Cthulhu]

I don't like the GTA games all that much, but I must admit that this is big news. Bleh. Rockstar screwed up in leaving the code in (if they actually did leave it in), but the ESRB seems to have slipped up a bit too. Just what we needed, more GTA controversy.

[TGK]

Personally, I'm offended by the GTA games, so I stay away from it.

I think that it is an insult to those who used to live through really shitty environments with real criminals ready to rape/mug/beat/do smth worse to you at every turn.

But I grew tired of arguing against immoralities in video games & other kind of entertainment after knowing that people will always bring up the argument that "I'm mature. I play, I don't do." and forget that kids play this stuff, and they are not mature.

And a friend of mine working in a FutureShop told me that the number of U15 kids buying GTA is downright disturbing.

[roushimsx]

Ehh,the game was rated M to begin with, so no one under 17 should have been buying it without a parent present. If so, then that was a failure on the parent and the game store employee....

but yea..

I love Grand Theft Auto 1 - 3. Vice City had potential but the map design wasn't nearly as well planned as Liberty City. The motorcycles and soundtrack were cool, but the core game seemed to take a hit... Haven't played San Andreas, but from what I hear it's even better than GTA3 (which itself was pretty fucking awesome). Going to have to pick up the PC version at some point (especially with the draw distance hack).

I do find it funny that people are up in arms about this but it's tucked away in the code and impossible to access without cheat devices or third party mods. That really doesn't make it different from any other PC game. I mean, you could download wall textures of nude chicks for Doom, nude skins for Tomb Raider and Max Payne 2, etc. Hell, Mafia had a full on sex scene (god, i really hope that they're working on a sequel of that game...up there with NOLF2 for best PC title of 2002).

And then there's God of War....heh... I find it funny parents buy their kids that game...

GTA is just being made a scapegoat because it's a long running series that's popular as hell (GTA3, Vice City, and San Andreas are three of the best selling games of all time). DMA/Rockstar North didn't do shit wrong.

too long; didn't read - Shit people, what do you think those ratings are for? Don't get pissed off at the game developer/publisher, get pissed off at the parents and game store clerks that let 12 year olds get their hands on the games.

[TGK]

I forgot to mention that the parents buy it for them. I witness it in more than one occasion while stocking up on electronics.

by the way, I wonder why the rating system use an ambiguous letter when they can't just say

O17 (over 17) - and a short description of the thing in the game

instead of "sexual content, life like violence"

you go "criminal acts, murder, rape, automobile stealing"

That would deter most parents, I think.

[ArrogantBastard]

Oh, you've gotta love it when Jack Thompson steps in and starts sensationalizing up some shit!

I think both parties are at fault, if you ask me...

Rockstar could have removed the content which the Hot Coffee mod enabled, but what I've heard from, I'm no developer by the way, it would require them to delay the game so they would actually remove the codes from and require another phase of beta testing in order to make sure that everything runs smoothly without any fuck-ups. Correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works in the industry. Just look at Giants: Citizen Kabuto... They removed the nipples from the Reavers (if I recall correctly), and there was a patch out there that enabled the nipples to be displayed. How? Just a simple patch that unlocked a portion of the code that the developers left in. This is just one of the few examples I can pretty much remember right at the moment, since I'm really tired as hell.

ESRB, well, they're just doing their job. Somehow, I think the ESRB should have made it more clear on their rating. If Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas were to display more gory carnage than its predecessors, more sexuality (but no sexual stuff), more coarse language, and tons of jackass gameplay that could influence the young minds, it should have been a little more restricted. Perhaps AO rating would have been more sufficient... Sure, no major retailers would carry games with AO rating, but it'll goddamn sure stay the fuck out of kids' or parents' reach. Let alone having their parents buy their kids an AO rating game, because (gasp) it's for Adults Only!

Politicans... Well, they can just go to hell.

Slight rant and totally off the tangent, this is ri-goddamned-diculous. I mean, every year we always have to read something about how one game company is the source of poisoning kids' minds with violent / sexual games when there is clearly other far worse stuff out there that would cause these right-wing Christian zealots' and conservative Republicans' synapses to fuck up while their brain melts into a gummy goo..

Nothing ever makes sense anymore.

[TGK]

First off, I agree about why the developers leave the code in. It is not simple, just as AB said.

But that is really off the tangent there.

What are the "worse stuff"?

Blockbuster? Well there is a rating system for that. I think it is a better one too. There is also many source that rates movies based on how appropriate (or inappropriate) they are for a certain age group. There is no such things for games.

The internet? Well you have to search to find the really bad stuff, and if the kids know the lingo to search for them, they already need some talking to.

I know people don't rant about movies or the internet poisoning kids, but I'm pretty sure it's a valid point to lament that GTA only got a M rating.

What is M? "Mature", and yes, a few months back I saw a 14-something convinced (read:nag) his parents for half an hour that he is "mature" until they buy it for him.

[ArrogantBastard]

What are the "worse stuff"?

Oh, let's see... Since we're all up in arms about the "sex mod". How about softcore / hardcore; gay; lesbian; transsexual; pissing / scat; orgy; bestiality pornography? As for violence / gore / death? There's the Rotten.com (Not Work Safe if you've never heard of it before).

I'm sure that most kids aren't tech savvy with the Internet, but then again you'd be surprised. I was 12 when I discovered AOL, and within the first hour, I discovered my first pornography on the Internet. So, kids are really unassuming when it comes to the Internet, because they sure as hell can surprise you with their knowledge.

Blockbuster? Well there is a rating system for that. I think it is a better one too. There is also many source that rates movies based on how appropriate (or inappropriate) they are for a certain age group. There is no such things for games.

The only source that rates games is ESRB, and the reason why it's not really working for the games is because most retailers aren't enforcing them by requiring people to be carded if they look under 18. But that doesn't always work, because parents still get their hands on them. Hell, my mom bought me my copy of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas as my Christmas gift. (Note: I'm 23 years old, not 12.) Not that it really validates anything, but if anyone wants to point out the parents for giving their kids something that they shouldn't have had in the first place, blame the retailers. But I'll still blame the parents for their idiocy because the ratings are just RIGHT THERE on the front and the back of the game package.

There will always be loopholes and ways around to it, no matter how airtight your shit is with 5,000 padlocks locked to it; 12 100,000 volts wires attached to it; and C-4 with a detonator set to go off if anyone so much looks at it the wrong way. People will still get this kind of software into the hands of kids.

And, to quote ErIog (of SA forums) which pretty much sums up a lot of things about ESRB and MPAA ratings, "...movie ratings and game ratings are not legally binding. They are voluntary for each of the industries and the retailers support them voluntarily."

[roushimsx]

And, to quote ErIog (of SA forums)

Total tangent -> GOOOOOOOOOON!
Hijack -> How many other goons are here?
On Topic -> Many game stores have signs hanging up explaining the rating system.

[ArrogantBastard]

GOOOOOOOOOON!

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

[sethsez]

What is M? "Mature", and yes, a few months back I saw a 14-something convinced (read:nag) his parents for half an hour that he is "mature" until they buy it for him.

I'm looking at my Doom 3 box right now (it's the closest M rated game to me). Here's what is says on the front:

MATURE 17+
M
CONTENT RATED BY ESRB
Game Experience May Change During Online Play

And on the back:

MATURE 17+
Blood and Gore
Intense Violence
ESRB CONTENT RATING www.esrb.org

What more do people want? You have the rating, the age recommendation, the content, and a link to a site that explains all of this, on both sides of the box. And it certainly takes up more space than movie ratings do on DVD cases.

GTA:SA has nudity, profanity, and violence. Okay. So do many R-rated movies, and parents have the common sense to pay attention to the warnings there. Why do they ignore what's written on game boxes? I'm sorry, if a 14 year old kid nags his mom until she buys him the game, that's not the store's fault, the ESRB's fault, or Rockstar's fault.

Finally, I have no problem with the game existing, and I have no problem playing it. Why? Because I'm an adult. Yes, I know the concern is over children who play it, but I'm sick of children's needs coming before everything else. Companies need to reply with a resounding "you know what? Fuck your kids" and then release all the adult-oriented content they want. I do enjoy the occasional profane movie, violent FPS, or porn video, and I don't want it watered down because Timmy's mom gave in to his whining. He's not my kid, and I'm not willing to make the sacrifices for him. If she doesn't want him to own a game with graphic violence and blatant profanity, then she shouldn't buy a game that has those exact two warnings on the box plastered under "MATURE 17+".

Oh, and long time SA lurker here. I really should buy an account one of these days.

[Cthulhu]

Most game stores have the ESRB poster up somewhere. Nobody reads it, but it's there. We had one back at EB when I worked there, and that wasn't all that long after the ESRB became the standardized ratings group.

[sethsez]

<soccer mom>

But it's so hard to understand all those letters, and Timmy really wants it. What's a mother to do?!

And as a mother, I must say that I am shocked (SHOCKED!) that a game called Grand Theft Auto has criminal activity. There was no warning!

</soccer mom>

[Super Laydock]

So the game has lots of extreme violence, rewards you for it and thereby to some degree exalts it. But if there are a few pixels suggesting or showing some sexuality only then it creates an uproar among politicians.

Hypocrits!

They actually are helping getting the word about the hack on the streets...


Like someone on another board said, there's never a:

"This game contains weapons of mass destruction" warning on the box...

[TGK]

So the game has lots of extreme violence, rewards you for it and thereby to some degree exalts it. But if there are a few pixels suggesting or showing some sexuality only then it creates an uproar among politicians.

Hypocrits!

They actually are helping getting the word about the hack on the streets...


Like someone on another board said, there's never a:

"This game contains weapons of mass destruction" warning on the box...

I can't agree more with this statement, very well said.

even from a Christian standpoint

Sex = ok (if you are not promiscuous)
Rape = bad
Killing = very bad

There's a reason why "Thou shalt not kill" is the first commandment! Why do people act as if

Killing = ok
Sex = bad
Rape = very bad

?

[Cthulhu]

The first commandment of the game world is:

"Thou shalt not contain religious material."

Next is:

"Thou shalt not contain sexual material."

-Then- you get:

"Thou shalt not contain excess violence and bloodshed."


The gaming world is a funny place.

[Accutron]

There's a reason why "Thou shalt not kill" is the first commandment!

'Thou shalt not have any other gods before me.' is the first commandment. They don't get around to killing until #6.

I would say GTA comes closer to violating the graven image one, seeing as you don't kill anybody when you play GTA. Or fuck anybody. Or steal anything. It's a game.

[sethsez]

I would say GTA comes closer to violating the graven image one, seeing as you don't kill anybody when you play GTA. Or fuck anybody. Or steal anything. It's a game.

If those little polygonal people could worship Jesus, they would, so they have the same rights as you or I do.

[Accutron]

If those little polygonal people could worship Jesus, they would, so they have the same rights as you or I do.

Well there are several churches in SA. Thou shalt not <scripted event> graven texture-mapped objects?

[snap monkey]

They don't get around to killing until #6.

It all depends on how you count them, apparently.

http://www.bibleplus.org/tencommandments.htm

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... ommand.htm

[Accutron]

It all depends on how you count them, apparently.

Eh, #5 or #6, either way it's not a top priority

[TGK]

There's a reason why "Thou shalt not kill" is the first commandment!

'Thou shalt not have any other gods before me.' is the first commandment. They don't get around to killing until #6.

I would say GTA comes closer to violating the graven image one, seeing as you don't kill anybody when you play GTA. Or fuck anybody. Or steal anything. It's a game.

My knowledge of the gospel is too rusty indeed. About the it's a game argument, it's good that you realized that. I do too. Most people probably do too. The one or two impressionable, depressed, socially isolated... kids who got too excited are the one that would take a gun out and kill somebody, maybe you, who knows.

Well, it's fruitless to argue this anyway. As long as violent entertainment make profit, people will keep making violent entertainment. As long as sexually depraved acts can sell games and movies, producers will add them in. It is simply natural laws of the market. The bad influence it can cause is like casualties of war, deaths which are important to us layman but mean nothing more than a chess move for those leaders who brought a nation into war.

But I always asked why there have been harmless ideas that did make millions and became classics? Are violent and sex the ONLY things that sell? The answer is no.

It comes down to laziness then, a laziness to be creative, to break the mold, to advance beyond reptilean drive for immediate rewards. I play games to admire the innovations that the game makers put into their creations. It is natural that I do not appreciate lazy game design.

I rest my case here.

[The n00b]

I really do hope this stuff becomes more acceptable someday. Sometimes I need a little sex with my violence.

[sethsez]

My knowledge of the gospel is too rusty indeed. About the it's a game argument, it's good that you realized that. I do too. Most people probably do too. The one or two impressionable, depressed, socially isolated... kids who got too excited are the one that would take a gun out and kill somebody, maybe you, who knows.

Are you saying that all of society should censor itself to protect the bottom .1% of mentally disturbed people? Are they now the bar for social expression as a whole?

But I always asked why there have been harmless ideas that did make millions and became classics? Are violent and sex the ONLY things that sell? The answer is no.

And I ask, would cinema be better without Psycho? Without Goodfellas? Taxi Driver? The Godfather? Saving Private Ryan? Blue Velvet? The French Connection? Fargo? Pulp Fiction? Hell, even Un Chien Andalou? Are you saying that these are less worthwhile, less classic than The Sound of Music or Wizard of Oz? Would Michelangelo's David be better with a toga? Would Hieronymus Bosch's The Garden of Earthly Delights be more appropriate if it just omitted the Hell section? Would Hamlet be better if he just slightly bruised Polonius and everyone made up in the end?

I'm not saying that San Andreas is art. But you're painting things with pretty broad strokes, and those two statements of yours are a painful reminder of nanny-state politics that I absolutely can't stand.

[TGK]

My knowledge of the gospel is too rusty indeed. About the it's a game argument, it's good that you realized that. I do too. Most people probably do too. The one or two impressionable, depressed, socially isolated... kids who got too excited are the one that would take a gun out and kill somebody, maybe you, who knows.

Are you saying that all of society should censor itself to protect the bottom .1% of mentally disturbed people? Are they now the bar for social expression as a whole?

But I always asked why there have been harmless ideas that did make millions and became classics? Are violent and sex the ONLY things that sell? The answer is no.

And I ask, would cinema be better without Psycho? Without Goodfellas? Taxi Driver? The Godfather? Saving Private Ryan? Blue Velvet? The French Connection? Fargo? Pulp Fiction? Hell, even Un Chien Andalou? Are you saying that these are less worthwhile, less classic than The Sound of Music or Wizard of Oz? Would Michelangelo's David be better with a toga? Would Hieronymus Bosch's The Garden of Earthly Delights be more appropriate if it just omitted the Hell section? Would Hamlet be better if he just slightly bruised Polonius and everyone made up in the end?

I'm not saying that San Andreas is art. But you're painting things with pretty broad strokes, and those two statements of yours are a painful reminder of nanny-state politics that I absolutely can't stand.

Ah, about the first statement, I think in terms of the benefit of the rest 99.9% of the society who are sane. For their safety specifically. I don't give a damn if they sentence the kids who shoot teachers and other kids in highschool to death. But I do give a damn for those innocents who got killed and injured.

About the second, I would revise it, since you made a good point and my statement was really too broad a stroke. The main difference between games and movies or books is that the society's norm still consider it "kid's entertainment". So the target market of GTA, whether deliberately or accidentally, contained "kids" as well.

I admit that I didn't make a good debate point, since there is no analytical proof for this statement, just personal observations from people who worked the counter about the people who bought GTA.

But to sum up my point, it comes down to good parenting and a more strict & clear rating system then. My qualm with GTA is not that it exists, but that it did not get an AO ratings to show clearly that it is aimed for adults.

[Acid King]

Ah, about the first statement, I think in terms of the benefit of the rest 99.9% of the society who are sane. For their safety specifically. I don't give a damn if they sentence the kids who shoot teachers and other kids in highschool to death. But I do give a damn for those innocents who got killed and injured.

About the second, I would revise it, since you made a good point and my statement was really too broad a stroke. The main difference between games and movies or books is that the society's norm still consider it "kid's entertainment". So the target market of GTA, whether deliberately or accidentally, contained "kids" as well.

I admit that I didn't make a good debate point, since there is no analytical proof for this statement, just personal observations from people who worked the counter about the people who bought GTA.

But to sum up my point, it comes down to good parenting and a more strict & clear rating system then. My qualm with GTA is not that it exists, but that it did not get an AO ratings to show clearly that it is aimed for adults.

I think the Matue 17+ rating shows that it is clearly aimed for adults. It's not porn, why should you have to be 18 to play it? It contains nothing worse than the average R Rated film, that's why it's M.

Aside from that, I think the "protection of society bit" is just paternalistic grandstanding on behalf of politicians and others who insist on making it a priority that the government regulate everything they possibly can. People, for some ungodly reason, believe that the government can control and socially engineer society, to root out everything they feel is a threat and conveniently ignore the facts that fly in the face of their criticism (falling crime rates). They feel that they know best and they can run peoples lives better than they can (This isn't directed at you, TGK, just some generalities about the way I've seen these politicians and "social activists" act). The same people complain about beer and liquor ads on TV (CHILDREN SEE THOSE ADS!!!!) and the fact that tobacco and alcohol companies sponsor events. They are also the same people who took their kids to see the Passion of the Christ, a horribly egregious exploitation of violence and a historically inacurrate one at that, and pump their kids full of dangerous narcotics like Ritalin, while throwing people who smoke pot in jail. End unnecessary ranting... now!

Interesting that you mention books because books do not have a ratings system. Any little kid can walk into Borders and pick up a copy of Naked Lunch or Crash and be exposed things far more lurid and depraved than antyhing in any video game and in all likelihood, not have the clerk bat an eye.