Sega Saturn - SCART Output Off-center Horizontally

[philexile]

Hello,

I have a Sega Saturn using a SCART cable and I noticed that it seems to shift the image about 1 inch to the left horizontally, hiding the left side of the image and a 1 inch black "bar" is visible to the right. Otherwise, the image looks great.

Any ideas as to what is causing this?

One side note: When I convert the SCART output to component with a SCART -> YUV box, it lessens this issue, reducing the black area to about 1/4 inch.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Is it possible to adjust your monitor's screen position so that it has optimal viewing?

Adjusting H pos & V pos pots would work or if you can gain access to a hidden Service Menu (if there aren't any external user settings to adjust them), that would do the trick as well. Are you using an CRT-based monitor or an LCD-based one?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[neorichieb1971]

This happened to me a lot in the day. I resorted to just using svideo which did not have that problem.

As stated above, unless you have some sort adjustment (which on the surface of things you have not found it yet) its stuck like that.

Although on the brighter side, a service menu probably does exist to rectify the problem. Unfortunately it does mean that other consoles might have the opposite effect leaving a margin on the left. One way to get round that is stetch the horizontal field, but you might have some image obscured by the side of the TV on some input devices.

There is really no perfect answer unless the Saturn is your only console or you like twiddling all the time.

[philexile]

Yes, I can adjust things a bit in the service menu, however, that would knock off all the other consoles I have hooked up to the CRT studio monitor.

Is it possible to adjust your monitor's screen position so that it has optimal viewing?

Adjusting H pos & V pos pots would work or if you can gain access to a hidden Service Menu (if there aren't any external user settings to adjust them), that would do the trick as well. Are you using an CRT-based monitor or an LCD-based one?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[philexile]

Hmm, that's annoying.

Are there any pot adjustments on the inside of the Saturn that you know of?

Its odd that the issue is semi-rectified when I convert the signal to YUV.

This happened to me a lot in the day. I resorted to just using svideo which did not have that problem.

As stated above, unless you have some sort adjustment (which on the surface of things you have not found it yet) its stuck like that.

Although on the brighter side, a service menu probably does exist to rectify the problem. Unfortunately it does mean that other consoles might have the opposite effect leaving a margin on the left. One way to get round that is stetch the horizontal field, but you might have some image obscured by the side of the TV on some input devices.

There is really no perfect answer unless the Saturn is your only console or you like twiddling all the time.

[antron]

no, you have to adjust the TV. What model is it?

[philexile]

The TV is a Sony PVM-20m4u. The Sega Saturn is a model 2.

no, you have to adjust the TV. What model is it?

[antron]

The TV is a Sony PVM-20m4u. The Sega Saturn is a model 2.

no, you have to adjust the TV. What model is it?

you should easily be able to make that adjustment with that monitor.

[philexile]

That's true, but unfortunately, I would have to readjust it each time to accommodate the other consoles I have hooked up. Its a service menu tweak, so its a bit of a pain to make the fix.

Any other suggestions?

Perhaps Sega will offer a firmware update?

you should easily be able to make that adjustment with that monitor.

[viletim]

Composite video takes a some time to process and turn into RGB for the picture tube. The video sweep is compensated for this so the picture is in the centre.

RGB video over SCART usess composite video for sync, the sync follows the same signal path as it would for a composite video only signal. RGB video doesn't need decoding, it's switched right into the RGB video amplifiers which drive the picture tube. The delay to accomidate the decoding is still there and the video information arrives too early.

It's a silly design fault, basically. A well designed TV/Monitor wouldn't do this...

If you're good at building electronic circuits then you might want to try this:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... tysync.png

I think you can also buy video processors which have a shift feature.

[philexile]

Hello,

Thank you for the response. This is exactly what I was looking for.

I'm good at soldering, but I've never actually built a circuit before. It may be better for me just to pick up a video processor that has a horizontal adjustment feature. Are there any that you can recommend?

Thanks again

Composite video takes a some time to process and turn into RGB for the picture tube. The video sweep is compensated for this so the picture is in the centre.

RGB video over SCART usess composite video for sync, the sync follows the same signal path as it would for a composite video only signal. RGB video doesn't need decoding, it's switched right into the RGB video amplifiers which drive the picture tube. The delay to accomidate the decoding is still there and the video information arrives too early.

It's a silly design fault, basically. A well designed TV/Monitor wouldn't do this...

If you're good at building electronic circuits then you might want to try this:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... tysync.png

I think you can also buy video processors which have a shift feature.

[viletim]

I'm good at soldering, but I've never actually built a circuit before. It may be better for me just to pick up a video processor that has a horizontal adjustment feature. Are there any that you can recommend?

I don't know much about particular models - I've never owned one.

[philexile]

Bummer, I'll look around a bit.

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.

I'm good at soldering, but I've never actually built a circuit before. It may be better for me just to pick up a video processor that has a horizontal adjustment feature. Are there any that you can recommend?

I don't know much about particular models - I've never owned one.

[neorichieb1971]

I'm good at soldering, but I've never actually built a circuit before. It may be better for me just to pick up a video processor that has a horizontal adjustment feature. Are there any that you can recommend?

I don't know much about particular models - I've never owned one.

Viletim.. You are blessed with the experience.. Does he have to get on his hands and knee's?

hehe

[viletim]

I'm good at soldering, but I've never actually built a circuit before. It may be better for me just to pick up a video processor that has a horizontal adjustment feature. Are there any that you can recommend?

I don't know much about particular models - I've never owned one.

Viletim.. You are blessed with the experience.. Does he have to get on his hands and knee's?

hehe

I only know of such things from reading technical forums like this one. I tried a bit of searching but didn't find anything useful... Maybe I just dreamed that there were horizontal shifting video boxes available out there...

[philexile]

Hello,

In attempt to solve my problem, I purchased the following off eBay:

Extron 202xi Digital Analog RGB Interface Sync Adapter: http://tinyurl.com/y3threk

Black 2M SCART TO VGA SVGA 15 PIN CABLE: http://tinyurl.com/y4rwfs4

Unfortunately, the SCART to VGA cables VGA can't interface because its 15 pins, not 9. Guess I should have read more closely....

Anyway, is there a way I can mod this SCART cable to work as a 9 pin VGA?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[philexile]

OK, I ended up finding a much easier solution to my problem. Many thanks to Fudoh!! (AGAIN!)

I was having problems getting the Saturn to Sync to my 'new' PVM2950Q, even with a sync splitter. Tobias recommend that I check out how the SCART cable was wired in order to solve the problem. Below is what I found:



That red scrawl connecting pins 18 and 4 is a wire that connects the two ground points. Also, the gray composite video input wire is actually white. Sorry, made that quickly in Paint.

Anyway, the following instructions from Fudoh not only fixed the syncing issue, but also solved the problem with the picture being slighter off center to the left by approximately 1 inch:

Disconnect completely:

18 (blanking GND, only needed for Scart TVs)
16 (blanking, only needed for Scart TVs)

Bridge:

4 and 17 (to get proper video GND)
Make sure the black wire, formerly 18, is connected to 17 as well.

And that's it. Works perfect now on both PVMs and no weird centering issues!

Hope this helps someone out in future!

Best Regards

[RGB32E]

Are you sure you were not missing a ground connection when connecting to your PVM? If your SCART to PVM adapter didn't have a ground connection to pin 18, then yeah... you'd have some problems...

So, you had two issues:

-Off center image caused by using composite video for sync instead of sync.

-No picture on PVM-2950Q caused by missing ground connection from Sega Saturn.

[Fudoh]

Off center image caused by using composite video for sync instead of sync.

no, he didn't change that. The cable still uses composite video. I have actually no idea what changed the horizontal offset. Possibly some difference in the GND levels due to the earlier wiring....

[philexile]

What he said.

[RGB32E]

Off center image caused by using composite video for sync instead of sync.

no, he didn't change that. The cable still uses composite video. I have actually no idea what changed the horizontal offset. Possibly some difference in the GND levels due to the earlier wiring....

Uhh.... that makes absolutely no sense. I think "the magical unicorns left my cable, so the picture appears and is perfectly centered!" makes more sense... I'm just trying to "root cause" the issues philexile encountered for my own reference.

Either way, that comes down to a bad (or lack there of) ground connection.

To say that pin 18 isn't a valid ground pin to use is misleading:

[philexile]

Its probable that the issue was wtih PIN 16, RGB Blanking, which was disconnected. Pin 18 may have been fine for the ground, but in any case, its a moot point since this solution worked.

There may be others, of course. For instance, using a SCART Sync Separator in tandem with an Extron RGB 202 rxi, I was able to correct the centering position as well. This was overkill though as the simple rewiring suggested by Fudoh did the same thing essentially.

[RGB32E]

Its probable that the issue was wtih PIN 16, RGB Blanking, which was disconnected. Pin 18 may have been fine for the ground, but in any case, its a moot point since this solution worked.

There may be others, of course. For instance, using a SCART Sync Separator in tandem with an Extron RGB 202 rxi, I was able to correct the centering position as well. This was overkill though as the simple rewiring suggested by Fudoh did the same thing essentially.

All's well that ends well...

Speaking of weird... ever seen a Saturn SCART RGB cable that carries sync instead of +5VDC? It provides for some interesting opportunities...

[philexile]

Ha, like what? That cable you have there looks monstrously awesome!

[antron]

Speaking of weird... ever seen a Saturn SCART RGB cable that carries sync instead of +5VDC? It provides for some interesting opportunities...

yes, all cables I have purchased off ebay carried c-sync and it has always been connected to SCART pin 16.

I do not own a SCART TV so I don't know how well they functioned for that. I used the cables to make jamma adapters.

[Jack_from_BYOAC]

I have this issue with my PS3 and PS3 in RGB 480p mode on my RGB monitor.

The image is very far over to the left, and extremely wide. Even with the H-size adjustment on the front I can't get it to shrink enough to fit the screen.

I am using a component video cable, and phono>BNC adapters to connect it to my monitor, and I have the monitor set to sync on green.

This particular component cable is like this one:



It has a composite video cable on it. I'm able to connect this to the green connector in RGB mode and get a stable image, albeit with messed up colors. And I can get a stable black and white image over 480i if I connect the composite cable to the composite sync input on the back on separate sync.

I wonder if I built a sync stripper, and then connected the cables as RGBS over 480p, would I get a correctly centered screen?

[Fudoh]

Which monitor are you using ? Makes me wonder how it displays the right colors at all ? YUV and RGsB are not the same. Invest into a proper YUV to RGBHV transcoder or a HDMI to VGA converter and you're set for the future.

[Jack_from_BYOAC]

The monitor is a Mitsubishi AM-3501R presentation/studio monitor.

It is an RGB monitor. I have successfully connected the component cables in the picture to the RGB connections on the back, and set the PS3 to SCART/AV-Multi out in the Display options menu, and then switched to 480P. This causes the PS3 to output 480p sync-on-green video, or RGsB if you prefer.

This gives me a good, stable, correctly colored picture, but the image is offset way over to the left, and is extremely wide. By using the controls on the front of monitor I am able to shrink the Horizontal width to something useable, and move the horiztonal position of the image over to the right so that most of it is visible on the screen.

I think maybe 7-8% of the screen is still cut off though.

[killersquirel]

I have recently got a couple of scart cables for my saturn and one for my ps1. I have also purchased an hdmi converter to connect the scart saturn/ps1 cables to my hdtv. The scart cables were purchased from play-asia. When I'm using the scart cable for the ps1 it runs amazingly sharp and crisp, although I am having problems with the saturn. When I try playing with the saturn I get a clear sharp picture, but every now and then the screen blacks out and then comes back. This happens pretty frequently. I tried rewiring the scart cable as suggested by philexile and it now works without blacking out, but the image is not as sharp or bright as it once was. Is there something that I can do to fix this?

Thanks,
Mike

[philexile]

Bad solder points maybe?