Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
PS3 list is seriously lacking Siren:New Translation/Blood Curse. It being one of the top (IMO even the best) Survival Horror games this gen is pretty much consensus, no matter what some early reviews said.
Staying in the same genre, you might want to add Zero: Tsukihami no Kamen for the Wii to the list.
Staying in the same genre, you might want to add Zero: Tsukihami no Kamen for the Wii to the list.
.

.

.
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
*Updated
What more can I say I wouldn't be here today if the old school didn't pave the way.
-
Jonathan Ingram
- Posts: 1062
- Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:55 pm
- Location: Moscow
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
dial911 wrote:*Updated

Ryu ga Gotoku: Kenzan needs to be on that list too! Best PS3 game after Demon`s Souls, IMHO. Why a low budget like title Way of the Samurai 3 got localized and this one didn`t is beyond me.
Also, Chromehounds for the 360.
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
You put Viva Pinata on the Wii list.
IGMO - Poorly emulated, never beaten.
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
-
- Posts: 7883
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:28 am
- Location: Bedford, UK
- Contact:
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
Ps3 - Singstar? Ridge Racer 7
360 - Rez HD? Ridge Racer 6?
Joe Dangerous is confirmed PS3 only. Don't know when its out though.
360 - Rez HD? Ridge Racer 6?
Joe Dangerous is confirmed PS3 only. Don't know when its out though.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
-
- Posts: 7883
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:28 am
- Location: Bedford, UK
- Contact:
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
Soldner X and X2. - PS3
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
-
- Posts: 7883
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:28 am
- Location: Bedford, UK
- Contact:
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
Fook me you guys aren't good at this.
I'm sure Wii has a Zelda on it. Or is it not included because its on cube or something?
PS3 has a Formula 1 game on it from the guys who made Wipeout. I remember a few launch games on PS3 were exclusive.. Some medieval hack n slash game.
I'm sure Wii has a Zelda on it. Or is it not included because its on cube or something?
PS3 has a Formula 1 game on it from the guys who made Wipeout. I remember a few launch games on PS3 were exclusive.. Some medieval hack n slash game.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
-
Jonathan Ingram
- Posts: 1062
- Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:55 pm
- Location: Moscow
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
The GC version is the definitive one.I'm sure Wii has a Zelda on it. Or is it not included because its on cube or something?
-
evil_ash_xero
- Posts: 6245
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
- Location: Where the fish lives
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
Would you really consider Ninja Gaiden Sigmas different games?
My Collection: http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/col ... Collection
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
*Updated and moved Viva Pinata to 360
Which is why I initially wanted this list to be of games that are generally considered by the gaming population as being great to top tier (8-10 on a 10 point rating scale)... therefore some sort of metric had to be used...
What more can I say I wouldn't be here today if the old school didn't pave the way.
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
You forgot Tatsunoko vs Capcom >:(
EDIT:
I think I am just gonna hit gamerankings and do a proper rundown. This list could conceivably be useful but right now it looks a bit, well ... other people have already said it.
EDIT:
I think I am just gonna hit gamerankings and do a proper rundown. This list could conceivably be useful but right now it looks a bit, well ... other people have already said it.
IGMO - Poorly emulated, never beaten.
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
This is for 360, going down the list by ranking:
Mass Effect 2
Gears of War
Halo 3
Gears of War 2
Forza Motorsport 3
Mass Effect
Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2
Forza Motorsport 2
Shadow Complex
Virtua Fighter 5 Online
Left 4 Dead
Left 4 Dead 2
Peggle Deluxe (?)
Project Gotham Racing 3
Fable 2
Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved
Trials HD
Splosion Man
Viva Pinata
Dead or Alive 4
Bomberman Live
Halo 3: ODST
Dead Rising
The Misadventures of P.B. Winterbottom
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Double Agent
Defense Grid: The Awakening
Alan Wake
Catan
Crackdown
Castle Crashers
Worms 2: Armageddon
N+
Pac Man Championship Edition
Rockstar Games presents Table Tennis
Saint's Row
Condemned: Criminal Origins
Viva Pinata: Trouble in Paradise
Tales of Vesperia (US)
Halo Wars
Darwinia +
Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars
Uno
Ace Combat 6: Fires of Liberation
Sensible World of Soccer
Ninja Gaiden II (?)
Perfect Dark Zero
Shoot 1UP
Marble Blast Ultra
Toy Soldiers
Rocket Riot
Chime
Kameo: Elements of Power
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts
Cloning Clyde
Getting into the high 70s now ...
Moto GP '06
Carcassonne
Lost Odyssey
Undertow
A Kingdom for Keflings
Sam & Max: Save the World
Bust-A-Move Live!
AstroPop
Lazy Raiders
Roogoo
Metro 2033
Eets: Chowdown
Naruto: Rise of a Ninja
MotoGP'07
Hasbro Family Game Night: Scrabble
Wik: The Fable of Souls
Poker Smash
RoboBlitz
Far Cry Instincts Predator
Culdcept SAGA
Mutant Storm Empire
Uno Rush
Overlord
Every Extend Extra Extreme
Zuma Deluxe
The Dishwasher: Dead Samurai
Zero D Beat Drop
Supreme Commander 2
Scene It? Box Office Smash
Blue Dragon
R-Type Dimensions
Lumines Live!
Gyromancer
Chessmaster LIVE
The Maw
Tropico 3
Battlestations: Pacific
Hexic HD
Galaga Legions
Magic: The Gathering - Duels of the Planeswalkers
Lips: I Love The 80s
Zeno Clash: Ultimate Edition
Ridge Racer 6
Small Arms
Weapon of Choice
Mutant Storm Reloaded
Command & Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath
South Park Let's Go Tower Defense Play!
Wallace & Gromit Episode 1: Fright of the Bumblebees
Wallace & Gromit Episode 3: Muzzled!
Raiden Fighters Aces
... and that's as far as I can be bothered going. Raiden Fighter Aces has 75.00%.
I might have fucked up - Sam and Max confuses me a lot, for instance - but I'm pretty sure those are all 360 only (tho obv. there are a bunch of games that are PC too).
I'll do the rest some other time, or if someone else wants to step up, go ahead.
Mass Effect 2
Gears of War
Halo 3
Gears of War 2
Forza Motorsport 3
Mass Effect
Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2
Forza Motorsport 2
Shadow Complex
Virtua Fighter 5 Online
Left 4 Dead
Left 4 Dead 2
Peggle Deluxe (?)
Project Gotham Racing 3
Fable 2
Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved
Trials HD
Splosion Man
Viva Pinata
Dead or Alive 4
Bomberman Live
Halo 3: ODST
Dead Rising
The Misadventures of P.B. Winterbottom
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Double Agent
Defense Grid: The Awakening
Alan Wake
Catan
Crackdown
Castle Crashers
Worms 2: Armageddon
N+
Pac Man Championship Edition
Rockstar Games presents Table Tennis
Saint's Row
Condemned: Criminal Origins
Viva Pinata: Trouble in Paradise
Tales of Vesperia (US)
Halo Wars
Darwinia +
Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars
Uno
Ace Combat 6: Fires of Liberation
Sensible World of Soccer
Ninja Gaiden II (?)
Perfect Dark Zero
Shoot 1UP
Marble Blast Ultra
Toy Soldiers
Rocket Riot
Chime
Kameo: Elements of Power
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts
Cloning Clyde
Getting into the high 70s now ...
Moto GP '06
Carcassonne
Lost Odyssey
Undertow
A Kingdom for Keflings
Sam & Max: Save the World
Bust-A-Move Live!
AstroPop
Lazy Raiders
Roogoo
Metro 2033
Eets: Chowdown
Naruto: Rise of a Ninja
MotoGP'07
Hasbro Family Game Night: Scrabble
Wik: The Fable of Souls
Poker Smash
RoboBlitz
Far Cry Instincts Predator
Culdcept SAGA
Mutant Storm Empire
Uno Rush
Overlord
Every Extend Extra Extreme
Zuma Deluxe
The Dishwasher: Dead Samurai
Zero D Beat Drop
Supreme Commander 2
Scene It? Box Office Smash
Blue Dragon
R-Type Dimensions
Lumines Live!
Gyromancer
Chessmaster LIVE
The Maw
Tropico 3
Battlestations: Pacific
Hexic HD
Galaga Legions
Magic: The Gathering - Duels of the Planeswalkers
Lips: I Love The 80s
Zeno Clash: Ultimate Edition
Ridge Racer 6
Small Arms
Weapon of Choice
Mutant Storm Reloaded
Command & Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath
South Park Let's Go Tower Defense Play!
Wallace & Gromit Episode 1: Fright of the Bumblebees
Wallace & Gromit Episode 3: Muzzled!
Raiden Fighters Aces
... and that's as far as I can be bothered going. Raiden Fighter Aces has 75.00%.
I might have fucked up - Sam and Max confuses me a lot, for instance - but I'm pretty sure those are all 360 only (tho obv. there are a bunch of games that are PC too).
I'll do the rest some other time, or if someone else wants to step up, go ahead.
Last edited by Drum on Sun May 30, 2010 4:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
IGMO - Poorly emulated, never beaten.
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
PS3 now:
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
LittleBigPlanet
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots
God of War III
WipEout HD Fury
MLB 10: The Show
Killzone 2
Demon's Souls
MLB 09: The Show
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
Heavy Rain
Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction
Warhawk - Operation: Fallen Star
Ratchet & Clank Future: A Crack in Time
Wipeout HD
Flower
PixelJunk Shooter
Valkyria Chronicles
MLB 08: The Show
Ninja Gaiden Sigma
Resistance 2
inFamous
Resistance: Fall of Man
Critter Crunch
Super Stardust HD
Shatter
Gran Turismo HD Concept
Warhawk
Trine
PixelJunk Monsters
ModNation Racers
Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2
Comet Crash
Everyday Shooter
MotorStorm
MotorStorm: Pacific Rift
Buzz! Quiz World
echochrome
SingStar
PixelJunk Monsters Encore
Hustle Kings
PixelJunk Eden
Lumines Supernova
Hot Shots Golf: Out of Bounds
Buzz! Quiz TV
Disgaea 3: Absence of Justice
Bomberman Ultra
Fat Princess
Heavenly Sword
Metal Gear Online
ZEN Pinball
And getting into the high 70s:
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue
Yakuza 3
Crash Commando
Ridge Racer 7
SingStar Motown
3D Dot Game Heroes
MLB 07: The Show
The Last Guy
SingStar: Vol. 2
Ratchet & Clank Future: Quest for Booty
Katamari Forever
Burn Zombie Burn
MAG
SIREN: Blood Curse
Cuboid
Folklore
Trash Panic
Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm
Astro Tripper
Calling All Cars!
SingStar Take That
SingStar Pop Edition
SingStar Queen
Groovin' Blocks
LocoRoco Cocoreccho
Loco Roco has a score of 75.10
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
LittleBigPlanet
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots
God of War III
WipEout HD Fury
MLB 10: The Show
Killzone 2
Demon's Souls
MLB 09: The Show
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
Heavy Rain
Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction
Warhawk - Operation: Fallen Star
Ratchet & Clank Future: A Crack in Time
Wipeout HD
Flower
PixelJunk Shooter
Valkyria Chronicles
MLB 08: The Show
Ninja Gaiden Sigma
Resistance 2
inFamous
Resistance: Fall of Man
Critter Crunch
Super Stardust HD
Shatter
Gran Turismo HD Concept
Warhawk
Trine
PixelJunk Monsters
ModNation Racers
Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2
Comet Crash
Everyday Shooter
MotorStorm
MotorStorm: Pacific Rift
Buzz! Quiz World
echochrome
SingStar
PixelJunk Monsters Encore
Hustle Kings
PixelJunk Eden
Lumines Supernova
Hot Shots Golf: Out of Bounds
Buzz! Quiz TV
Disgaea 3: Absence of Justice
Bomberman Ultra
Fat Princess
Heavenly Sword
Metal Gear Online
ZEN Pinball
And getting into the high 70s:
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue
Yakuza 3
Crash Commando
Ridge Racer 7
SingStar Motown
3D Dot Game Heroes
MLB 07: The Show
The Last Guy
SingStar: Vol. 2
Ratchet & Clank Future: Quest for Booty
Katamari Forever
Burn Zombie Burn
MAG
SIREN: Blood Curse
Cuboid
Folklore
Trash Panic
Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm
Astro Tripper
Calling All Cars!
SingStar Take That
SingStar Pop Edition
SingStar Queen
Groovin' Blocks
LocoRoco Cocoreccho
Loco Roco has a score of 75.10
Last edited by Drum on Sun May 30, 2010 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
IGMO - Poorly emulated, never beaten.
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
Wii now:
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Super Mario Galaxy
World of Goo
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Metroid Prime Trilogy (I'm just gonna count this instead of Prime 3 on its own)
Cave Story
Art of Balance
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Punch-Out!!
Boom Blox Bash Party
Little King's Story
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars
Bomberman Blast
Maboshi's Arcade
Monster Hunter Tri
LostWinds: Winter of the Melodias
Super Paper Mario
Bit.Trip Runner
Boom Blox
Strong Bad's Cool Game for Attractive People Episode 5: 8-Bit Is Enough
Sin and Punishment: Star Successor
No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle
Dead Space Extraction (I think this may be getting a port later?)
Swords and Soldiers
Art Style: ORBIENT
Tetris Party
Wii Sports Resort
MadWorld
Trauma Team
Rage of the Gladiator
Muramasa: The Demon Blade
WarioWare: Smooth Moves
Mario Kart Wii
EA Sports Active
Dawn of Discovery
A Boy and His Blob
Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth
Wii Fit Plus
de Blob
Strong Bad's Cool Game for Attractive People Episode 4: Dangeresque 3: The Criminal Projective
NyxQuest: Kindred Spirits
Wii Fit
Klonoa
The House of the Dead: Overkill
Red Steel 2
New Play Control! Donkey Kong Jungle Beat (dunno whether to count this or not - it's substantially different from the GC version unlike, say, Rez HD, which I ignored)
Geometry Wars: Galaxies
LostWinds
Excitebots: Trick Racing
Bit.Trip Beat
Toki Tori
Bit.Trip Void
Mini Ninjas
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King
Trauma Center: Second Opinion
Bit.Trip Core
Blast Works: Build, Trade, Destroy
You, Me & the Cubes
Strong Bad's Cool Game for Attractive People Episode 2: Strong Badia the Free
Endless Ocean: Blue World
Rubik's Puzzle Galaxy: RUSH
Rune Factory Frontier
Rabbids Go Home
Strong Bad's Cool Game for Attractive People Episode 3: Baddest of the Bands
WarioWare D.I.Y. Showcase
Grand Slam Tennis
MySims Agents
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Wario Land: Shake It!
The Magic Obelisk
Mercury Meltdown Revolution
Shaun White Snowboarding: Road Trip
Trauma Center: New Blood
Order Up!
Tomena Sanner
Contra ReBirth
Strong Bad's Cool Game for Attractive People Episode 1: Homestar Ruiner
Naruto Shippuden: Clash of Ninja Revolution III
Wii Sports
Bonsai Barber
Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon
The Sky Crawlers: Innocent Aces
Elebits
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles
Art Style: CUBELLO
Excite Truck
Naruto: Clash of Ninja Revolution
Naruto has a score of 75.00.
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Super Mario Galaxy
World of Goo
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Metroid Prime Trilogy (I'm just gonna count this instead of Prime 3 on its own)
Cave Story
Art of Balance
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Punch-Out!!
Boom Blox Bash Party
Little King's Story
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars
Bomberman Blast
Maboshi's Arcade
Monster Hunter Tri
LostWinds: Winter of the Melodias
Super Paper Mario
Bit.Trip Runner
Boom Blox
Strong Bad's Cool Game for Attractive People Episode 5: 8-Bit Is Enough
Sin and Punishment: Star Successor
No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle
Dead Space Extraction (I think this may be getting a port later?)
Swords and Soldiers
Art Style: ORBIENT
Tetris Party
Wii Sports Resort
MadWorld
Trauma Team
Rage of the Gladiator
Muramasa: The Demon Blade
WarioWare: Smooth Moves
Mario Kart Wii
EA Sports Active
Dawn of Discovery
A Boy and His Blob
Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth
Wii Fit Plus
de Blob
Strong Bad's Cool Game for Attractive People Episode 4: Dangeresque 3: The Criminal Projective
NyxQuest: Kindred Spirits
Wii Fit
Klonoa
The House of the Dead: Overkill
Red Steel 2
New Play Control! Donkey Kong Jungle Beat (dunno whether to count this or not - it's substantially different from the GC version unlike, say, Rez HD, which I ignored)
Geometry Wars: Galaxies
LostWinds
Excitebots: Trick Racing
Bit.Trip Beat
Toki Tori
Bit.Trip Void
Mini Ninjas
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King
Trauma Center: Second Opinion
Bit.Trip Core
Blast Works: Build, Trade, Destroy
You, Me & the Cubes
Strong Bad's Cool Game for Attractive People Episode 2: Strong Badia the Free
Endless Ocean: Blue World
Rubik's Puzzle Galaxy: RUSH
Rune Factory Frontier
Rabbids Go Home
Strong Bad's Cool Game for Attractive People Episode 3: Baddest of the Bands
WarioWare D.I.Y. Showcase
Grand Slam Tennis
MySims Agents
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Wario Land: Shake It!
The Magic Obelisk
Mercury Meltdown Revolution
Shaun White Snowboarding: Road Trip
Trauma Center: New Blood
Order Up!
Tomena Sanner
Contra ReBirth
Strong Bad's Cool Game for Attractive People Episode 1: Homestar Ruiner
Naruto Shippuden: Clash of Ninja Revolution III
Wii Sports
Bonsai Barber
Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon
The Sky Crawlers: Innocent Aces
Elebits
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles
Art Style: CUBELLO
Excite Truck
Naruto: Clash of Ninja Revolution
Naruto has a score of 75.00.
IGMO - Poorly emulated, never beaten.
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
Analysis:
They're all about even. Also, a bunch of the games (particularly on 360 )aren't really exclusive, being on PC or handhelds as well.
They're all about even. Also, a bunch of the games (particularly on 360 )aren't really exclusive, being on PC or handhelds as well.
IGMO - Poorly emulated, never beaten.
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
Wow, I'm surprised Cave Story's rated so high. Also surprised that Muramasa isn't closer to the bottom of the list.
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
Wii has more games in the 70s/low 80s (iirc) so that is probably why Muramasa is so high up. I'd say it deserves the spot, probably the best thing Vanillaware has done from what little I played.
Note that there are a ton of questionable entries/exclusions so somebody might wanna check my working (if you care - I don't). It said the Monkey Island games were only on Wii - is that right? Surprised me. Sam and Max confused me as well.
From the games I've played on those systems, the rankings seem ok, tho there are a ton of games on all the lists that I couldn't give less of a shit about.
Games I want to play are pretty evenly spread across all platforms (including PC and handhelds). Have to smh at people who have convinced themselves that there is a clear best or worst platform this time out. If you're on a tight budget, sure, buy a PC and forget consoles, but beyond that ...
Note that there are a ton of questionable entries/exclusions so somebody might wanna check my working (if you care - I don't). It said the Monkey Island games were only on Wii - is that right? Surprised me. Sam and Max confused me as well.
From the games I've played on those systems, the rankings seem ok, tho there are a ton of games on all the lists that I couldn't give less of a shit about.
Games I want to play are pretty evenly spread across all platforms (including PC and handhelds). Have to smh at people who have convinced themselves that there is a clear best or worst platform this time out. If you're on a tight budget, sure, buy a PC and forget consoles, but beyond that ...
IGMO - Poorly emulated, never beaten.
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
Re: Modern Gen List of Exclusives (PS3, Wii, 360)
http://www.industrygamers.com/news/ps3- ... revisited/
Some more gibberish on the console exclusive battle, if anybody is still interested. Looks like the couple of people who were most enthusiastic have cleared out for some reason though.
Some more gibberish on the console exclusive battle, if anybody is still interested. Looks like the couple of people who were most enthusiastic have cleared out for some reason though.
IGMO - Poorly emulated, never beaten.
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327