Gunstar Heroes (split from S&P2)

[Drum]

Gunstar Heroes is simply the worst run 'n' gun I've played.

What the fuck is this?

[Ebbo]

^ My thoughts exactly
To each their own but really? The worst?

About S&P2: I pretty much agree what Skykid said. That being said the game does throw in as much different shit as possible - maybe you'll find "TOO MUCH creativity" for your taste.

[Skykid]

Gunstar Heroes is simply the worst run 'n' gun I've played.

What the fuck is this?

Lol, yeah. Explanation required!

[MathU]

Well it is. Now granted I haven't played some of the shittier entries in the Contra series, but I have played every Metal Slug, Dolphin Blue, Irem's two games, some others. Also haven't played Commando: Steel Disaster. Perhaps that's worse. I just find almost nothing compelling about Gunstar Heroes, and I just don't really understand the hype surrounding it. Oh I heard that GBA sequel was pretty awful, even amongst Treasure fans.

[Skykid]

Well it is. Now granted I haven't played some of the shittier entries in the Contra series, but I have played every Metal Slug, Dolphin Blue, Irem's two games, some others. Also haven't played Commando: Steel Disaster. Perhaps that's worse. I just find almost nothing compelling about Gunstar Heroes, and I just don't really understand the hype surrounding it. Oh I heard that GBA sequel was pretty awful, even amongst Treasure fans.

The sequel isn't as good, granted. It's fairly forgettable apart from a few standout moments and some nice graphics (and a bit short too.)

The original perhaps isn't the pinnacle of run and gun gameplay - it can be a little scrappy sometimes and there's a lot of variables in the gameplay. The worst part is stage five, which is too long by about ten minutes. On the flip side though it's one of the most inventive run and guns ever, packed with creativity and variety with loads of character and some daring stage design.

The lost boss is too cool also. Golden Silver - what a name.

[Ebbo]

I like where this thread is going B)

When it comes to co-op, Gunstar Heroes is my favorite run 'n' gun game. Whenever I'm playing either Contra or Metal Slug with someone less experienced player, they get frustrated in no time because your character dies from one hit. GH feels much more forgiving since you're allowed to take some hits - and if you happen to die, you can come back if your buddy is still alive. However, this game can be quite challenging especially on Expert when you can't just abuse Homing+Laser combo all the time. And when you're playing on Expert with a buddy who actually knows what to do, it's totally different experience and overall the biggest reason what makes Gunstar Heroes so great game in my book.

Stage five feels like Treasure noticed they didn't have enough actual run 'n' gun sections because of the all awesome boss battles so they basicly made a level which is all about running and gunning. The stage itself isn't that bad but Smash Daisaku can be a pain if you're low on health. Then again, there is a reason why throw attack is so powerful against him...

But I too agree on the remake/sequel, it isn't anywhere near as good as the first one. Not a bad game but it took away co-op and the awesome weaponcombo system and replaced throw with a boring sword. The new shmup levels were just horrible and besides Seven Force and Black, all the bosses were toned down. Orange is just pathetic. He wasn't that hard in the original game but goddamn his Rotor Press attack made me always laugh.

Edit: Btw MathU, have you tried Alien Soldier?

[Skykid]

Gunstar is awesome,no doubt about it. The only problem is it's too easy on normal if you're using continues, and very difficult if you're going for a 1cc.
There's a random element to the enemy attacks because of the way they keep piling on, which means there's quite a lot of variables - only the bosses are a little more pattern based.

On the whole though, it's definitely one of the smartest RNG's ever.

[Ganelon]

A Gunstar Heroes 1CC on default difficulty isn't hard; I did it in a few days of getting the game over a decade ago. There are places where you can really milk extra HP and boss attacks are easy to spot and counter. It's a smart sidescroller and an excellent one at that but I think Alien Soldier and Silhouette Mirage reward methodical play much more (where you face a huge handicap if you can't solve a boss's puzzle).

Still, after Contra on NES, I had no interest in the run 'n gun; Gunstar Heroes is what made me reconsider that sub-genre. So yeah, it holds special memories for me.

[louisg]

It's not perfect, but it's far better than that crappy unbalanced Contra:HC game!

[Obiwanshinobi]

Gunstar Heroes is a fine game, but terribly cheap in places. Frustrates the hell outta me. Contra: Shattered Soldier isn't half as frustrating in my book. I'm talking just playing through both using continues. 1cc-ing Shattered Soldier must be much more difficult (and frustrating) than 1cc-ing Gunstar Heroes.
P.S. Gunstar Heroes Treasure Box for the PS2 is a superb retro compilation. If you need a reason to ditch your Gunstar Heroes, Dynamite Headdy and Alien Soldier cartridges, look no further. Those late Sega Ages 2500 releases are just dreamy.

[evil_ash_xero]

Gunstar Heroes is a fine game, but terribly cheap in places. Frustrates the hell outta me. Contra: Shattered Soldier isn't half as frustrating in my book. I'm talking just playing through both using continues. 1cc-ing Shattered Soldier must be much more difficult (and frustrating) than 1cc-ing Gunstar Heroes.
P.S. Gunstar Heroes Treasure Box for the PS2 is a superb retro compilation. If you need a reason to ditch your Gunstar Heroes, Dynamite Headdy and Alien Soldier cartridges, look no further. Those late Sega Ages 2500 releases are just dreamy.

Yeah, it's a great compilation. All the different options are great. And well, the games kick ass too. Alien Soldier is awesome, once you get the hang of it.

[MathU]

Btw MathU, have you tried Alien Soldier?

No, I haven't actually. But since it's by the Treasure from the same era, I have a feeling I wouldn't like it for similar reasons to Gunstar Heroes.

[Gungriffon Geona]

It's not perfect, but it's far better than that crappy unbalanced Contra:HC game!

The fuck is this shit? Atleast HC has consistent mechanics and the difficulty is progressive. With Gunstar you got a bunch of shit you'll NEVER use or only use a few times because the game forces you to. the difficulty is all over the place and it can go from piss easy to brick-wall in a matter of minutes. add to it that it's an incredibly ugly game except for Seven Force.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Um, Gunstar Heroes isn't "ugly" by any stretch of anything. The PS2 port ona a CRT via proper cable looks good. On a properly configured emulator it looks good. For a Genesis/Megadrive game, that is. Nothing "ugly" about it.

[Specineff]

You want a crappy RNG? Play Cyberlip. Or Spark Man. (Though that's more of a Walk-and-Gun).

[Skykid]

You want a crappy RNG? Play Cyberlip.

"I'm a goner!"

Surely one of the most amusing gaming soundbytes ever.

Contra: HC kicks ass.

Gunstar Heroes kicks ass.

Both are awesome RNG's.

Cyber-Lip is shit tho.

[Ghegs]

I actually enjoy Cyber-Lip, though I'm sure it's something of a masochistic thing. I've been casually working on a one-life clear of the game for a while, too.

[Drum]

Xain'D SleenA > all.

[Skykid]

I actually enjoy Cyber-Lip, though I'm sure it's something of a masochistic thing. I've been casually working on a one-life clear of the game for a while, too.

Each to their own Ghegs

If you enjoy it that's cool, IMO your time could be better spent elsewhere though.

[Drum]

Cyber-Lip has the best main villain ever.

Worse run n guns than Cyber Lip:

SD Gundam Psycho Salamander
Chelnov Atomic Runner (arcade - the Megadrive version is awesome)
Bionic Commando (arcade)
Thunder Hoop
Gun Force 1 and 2 (you heard me)
Contra
Super C
Green Beret
Iron Horse
Cop 01
E-Swat
Bay Route
Demon's World (ugh)
Charlie Ninja

[Ganelon]

Contra and Super C worse than Cyber-Lip? Sure... Even E-SWAT (AC and MD) is a stretch.

Contra: HC kicks ass.

Gunstar Heroes kicks ass.

Both are awesome RNG's.

Cyber-Lip is shit tho.

Yeah, I totally concur with this opinion.

[louisg]

Cyber-Lip isn't great, but I'm totally nostalgic for it. I used to play it all the time at a local arcade in the early 90s

Xain'D SleenA > all.

Haha word!

[MX7]

Gunstar Heroes is the game that got me back into videogames. I easily prefer it to Metal Slug. Me and my girlfriend have had many arguments over this It reminds me a lot of Gradius V in that it's geared towards co-op play. Those years of sitting in a smoky bedroom, exchanging terse commands: "you go up, me go down", "ninja present", "fuck your silly dice maze", "you take it, I'm shit at Super Gondola"...

[Stormwatch]

Contra:HC is a good game if you get the Japanese version. The US version is completely fucked up. Someone took a hard game and thought: "wouldn't it be more fun if we made it borderline impossible?" NO, FUCK YOU, KONAMI USA, IT WOULDN'T!

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

It's just like those damn shump games.

[Elixir]

It's just like those damn shump games.

...actually, it's usually the other way around. At least, Irem and Toaplan seem to think so.

[evil_ash_xero]

I prefer the J version. I still suck at it.

Honestly, my biggest problem with HC is the graphics. I think it looks kinda bad.

Gunstar Heroes is a sharp looking game. Alien Soldier looks even better.

[CIT]

Contra: HC kicks ass.

Gunstar Heroes kicks ass.

Both are awesome RNG's.

Exactly!

Anybody who claims otherwise is just trying to be a contrarian.

[BIL]

Hardcorps US removed the JP cheats too, ha (I can still taste the despair, clutching that 1994 Gamefan issue). It's not that rough a game, once you get memorising... some nastily erratic boss attacks near the end of each path, that's about it.

I wish it was all the "last phases" back-to-back, after the junkyard was over (savestates have somewhat realised this lifelong dream). The later areas are all fantastic, but sitting through jungle four times to see all is rough.

[Specineff]

Contra:HC is a good game if you get the Japanese version. The US version is completely fucked up. Someone took a hard game and thought: "wouldn't it be more fun if we made it borderline impossible?" NO, FUCK YOU, KONAMI USA, IT WOULDN'T!

Dude... what are you playing it with? A PS2 Controller?

Browny's EM Yo-yo and Fang's Psycho Blaster break the game so bad, it's not even fun anymore.