Any mechanical keyboard fans here?

[Pixel_Outlaw]

I'm just wondering after buying a second model m if there are any other mechanical keyboard purest here. If you are going to type long documents or have lengthy internet discussions/posts you might consider giving one a try. It is funny to think that some people will throw down 80 dollars for a keyboard that lacks any fancy keys but the reason is the build quality. That said I believe that the IBM/Lexmark is the HORI of the keyboard world. Let me clarify that their OLD keyboards are anyway (the mechanical ones).


As far as gaming on them there are mixed reactions. For typing they are GREAT, you feel each key and hear a loud click. However the same thing applies to a game so you are going to know that you are playing on a mechanical keyboard the entire time.

If you are going to buy one, I'd look up the model to be sure you are getting a board with an actual spring inside. Just because a keyboard clicks does not mean that it has the proper innards. The keys should click BEFORE touching the bottom of the board. Some eBay wrongly list keyboards as being clicky when really the noise is just from the key bottoming out.

If you want something that weighs 5 lbs and will last you FAR longer than most of the stuff on the market give them a try. They really do make typing more fun if you are a touch type, the sound allows you to quickly move to the next key, you are sure you hit the key when it clicks midway down. If you simply want to be a showoff typist they work great too you can clear a whole room with ego if need be.

Some links if people like.

Unicomp: They took over the production of the Model M after IBM/Lexmark, they also service old boards. Make sure you get a mechanical version as they offer crappy rubber dome contact versions too.
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/

geekhack forum: The cult of the mechanical keyboards.
http://geekhack.org/

Das Keyboard: Modern mechanical keyboard that is substantially audible. (I've never owned one so I cannot say much about them)
http://www.daskeyboard.com/

Wikipedia Article: Contains background information and an expandable model chart with key features. Play the sound in the article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard

[cools]

I have a 1984 Model M. It's superb.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

So it's like a typewriter type of keyboard? If it's like the Hori of keyboards, does that mean I'll totally suck at typing on it like I do using joysticks? I'm fine with my keyboard, which is like the standard joypads of the world kind and won't wake up the whole family during my late night computer use.

[Acid King]

I can't type on normal keyboards for very long otherwise my hands cramp up. All those keyboards look very painful.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Yeah, I've got one of those ancient Digital branded PC based keyboards that hails from the Windows 95 OS era with the super old-school PS/2 interface. The all keys on it are spring based but doesn't have that clicky mechanical feeling though. Still works like a charm despite it's age. Digital Corp. and their line-up of PCs was, eventually, acquired by Compaq in the late 1990s.

I've seen those cool but non-functional red colored "Panic" button that you can buy & have installed on a regular PC keyboard by popping off a seldomly used button and replacing it. Simply press it anytime "panic" ensues. Washington state based Archie McPhee sells them as a gag gift along with other numerous crazy 'n' zany items. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Limbrooke]

I have a 1984 Model M. It's superb.

1988 Model M here, you nicotene addled kiwi.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Those Logitech branded PlayNet keyboards for the Playstation 2 console are ace since they take up considerably less room than a full-sized PC keyboard setup...works like a charm on my PS3 console when web browsing since it's USB powered anyways.

A couple of Armored Core games on the PS2 do have built-in support for a USB powered keyboard + mouse setup. Just check for compatibility on the back of the AC game DVD cases and see what optional devices are usable from the get-go.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Pixel_Outlaw]

Logitech keyboards are mostly mushy hell from what I've used. I had to use them at the college and they really do feel like typing on a dead octopus.
Heaven forbid you have to look at an informational book and not the screen while typing, you can never be sure the key actually registered.

But I'd advise people to try both for a good chunk of time and see what they like best.

[Ex-Cyber]

I've had a Unicomp Customizer 104 for years. It's fantastic, both in terms of tactile feedback and durability. It is kind of loud, though.

[StarCreator]

Unfortunately, after years of typing on Microsoft keyboards I've developed a really light touch, so I actually have difficulty using mechanical keyboards now. They definitely feel great, but I can't type on them for too long without my fingers getting sore. =/

[Warp_Rattler]

For about four years now, my only desktop keyboard has been a 1984 Model M I found at a Goodwill for $5 or so. It's missing the keycaps for the 2 on the number pad and the right Ctrl key; I've found a Model M fansite that sells replacements, but I just haven't gotten around to placing an order. I've since discovered that I never use the right Ctrl key, so it doesn't really matter.

I just can't stand the mushy rubber-dome keyboards anymore, and I especially loathe the abominable chiclet-type keyboards that are showing up on every other laptop brand thanks to Apple making it trendy. Can't beat that nice satisfying "click" at the end of each keypress. Laptops are even worse, and there are some that make the spongiest desktop keyboard look like a paradise in comparison. My last two laptops have been Thinkpads, and despite the new Lenovo ownership of the brand I still like to think of them as the spiritual laptop successor to the Model M keyboards.

The Model M doesn't bug me much for gaming. After getting a few decent USB pads (and the XBox 360 HRAP EX SE), I've stopped using the keyboard for any gaming that's not FPS titles. It's funny, but I just don't notice the clicking of the keys when I play games anymore. Or rather, I don't notice it as a distracting noise on its own. I've come to associate the sound of the mouse clicking (when my ears pick up on it) with firing, and in the same way I associate the clicking of the keyboard with moving my character; they're both sounds I tune out as being irrelevant to whatever other auditory information I'm getting from the speakers, which is what's really important.

[KBZ]

Been dying for this keyboard from majestouch. But there's just no room on my keyboard + mouse tray.


I have room for THE DECK, but it doesn't have N-key rollover.

My current keyboard is nice but I would later find out that it only handles 3 inputs at once which is horrible for any twitch fps.

[Warp_Rattler]

N-key Rollover allows multiple simultaneous key presses to be recognized by your computer. True N-key Rollover works only with the included PS/2 adapter. Using the USB connection will limit the N-key Rollover function to 6 keys, plus 4 modifiers (Ctrl, Alt, Pgup, etc.), at a time.

Oh good. I hate it when my computer doesn't recognize me mashing 12 keys at once for my custom macros.

[ZOM]

Been dying for this keyboard from majestouch.

I had almost this one ordered, but the keyboard's price tag + customs (we don't have them over here) made me rethink about doing it.

[Ed Oscuro]

N-key Rollover allows multiple simultaneous key presses to be recognized by your computer. True N-key Rollover works only with the included PS/2 adapter. Using the USB connection will limit the N-key Rollover function to 6 keys, plus 4 modifiers (Ctrl, Alt, Pgup, etc.), at a time.

Oh good. I hate it when my computer doesn't recognize me mashing 12 keys at once for my custom macros.

I hate keyboards with shit matrixes limit you from pressing Ctrl + two direction keys at the same time. So that's a big step up in either case Lightens your wallet more too!

Lol @ the movie poster font used on the Ice Deck (TM WE DIDNT STEAL THIS NAME FROM NEUROMANCER PROMISE) by the way.

[moozooh]

Never was a fan of mechanical keyboards. Like StarCreator, I have a light touch, so what I'm using right now is Genius SlimStar 311, which is small, quiet, responsive, and surprisingly durable for a membrane board.

[Vexorg]

Yeah, I've got one of those ancient Digital branded PC based keyboards that hails from the Windows 95 OS era with the super old-school PS/2 interface. The all keys on it are spring based but doesn't have that clicky mechanical feeling though. Still works like a charm despite it's age. Digital Corp. and their line-up of PCs was, eventually, acquired by Compaq in the late 1990s.

I've seen those cool but non-functional red colored "Panic" button that you can buy & have installed on a regular PC keyboard by popping off a seldomly used button and replacing it. Simply press it anytime "panic" ensues. Washington state based Archie McPhee sells them as a gag gift along with other numerous crazy 'n' zany items. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

I had one for a while, except mine was an Any key.

Currently I'm using a Logitech G11 "Gamer" keyboard, and to be honest the thing isn't all that great. Ghosting issues and a lot of vibration noise when I'm typing. I probably just need to spend the bucks and get a good keyboard to last a while, but I'm so picky about these (Ergo keyboards and anything with an F-lock key automatically gets tossed out, which gets rid of at least 70% of the choices right off the bat) that I have a hard time finding one that works.

[Necronopticous]

http://webwit.nl/input/kbsim/

[KBZ]

http://webwit.nl/input/kbsim/

AHA! You just saved me a lot of money!

[Pixel_Outlaw]

For what it's worth. I just scored two more today for free.
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1176/dsc00370hv.jpg

The AT&T is really odd. It doesn't have the same shape but shares similar innards.

Also, that simulator is pretty broken. You can't simulate the sound on the way down like the real boards do. That program just waits for the key to totally bottom out before making the sound a few milliseconds later. The real keys make two sounds, one when the key is midway down and another when the key returns to the upright position. That simulator is pretty bogus.

[Ed Oscuro]

Currently using a Saitek Eclipse here. Hate the stupid useless knobs at the corners, and the way it lights up; otherwise, seems a decent enough keyboard. Yes, it's one of the dreaded non-clicky membrane ones with plastic return. More or less a more expensive version of the pack-in keyboards I suppose, but I haven't had to worry about key mappings too much. The down and left arrow keys appear black, from a distance, instead of silvery; they're transparent and I can see the switches inside, apparently the key has been rubbing against the switch column on the inside. Thankfully there's no paint on the outside, but apparently instead on the inside of the keys. (I have to admit it's not the smartest looking keyboard but it does its job).

[Enhasa]

I'd like to use a mechanical keyboard, since I'm not a fan of today's mushy rubber domes. That being said, it's near impossible to find one that's both mechanical and ergonomic, and not having major wrist pain kinda wins out by a lot there. As an aside, it's mouse use that really hurts my wrists anyway. I tried increasingly crazy things from wrist rests to gloves to straps (I still use these for extended pad gaming though), before I finally realized that for all computer usage except certain genres of gaming it's faster, more efficient, and painless to just go keyboard-only. I wrote an autohotkey script that lets me use the numpad to move the cursor, click 5 buttons, wheel up/down/left/right, switch tabs, and passthrough for normal numpad usage. But honestly it's usually faster not to use even that.

I have a MS Ergo 4000, which isn't the greatest but is alright, but is an unbelievable deal at $30 new. The premium keyboard market is price-gouging to the max, you pay more for stuff like not having those windows keys and not having a numpad and even having no letters printed on the keys!


Warp_Rattler: Lenovo is still better than just about every other laptop brand, but they semi-recently switched to much crappier keyboards to cut costs. It's ok though, you can order replacement vintage Thinkpad keyboards from them. For all the flak Acer gets, btw, at least on certain models they have IMHO the 2nd best laptop keys by a long shot, almost as good as the vintage Thinkpads. And since I absolutely hate the Thinkpad layout but love the Acer's (once remapped and extra buttons reprogrammed in the registry), I'd actually put that one on top.

Vexorg: F-lock literally does not matter at all unless it offends you philosophically or something (like Linux zealots that scrape the paint off the windows keys, lol). I think maybe I had to hit mine once when I first got my keyboard, then I never had to think about it again.

[Stormwatch]

Man, I wish I could afford an Unicomp. Shipping one here costs almost as much as the keyboard itself.

[Warp_Rattler]

Warp_Rattler: Lenovo is still better than just about every other laptop brand, but they semi-recently switched to much crappier keyboards to cut costs. It's ok though, you can order replacement vintage Thinkpad keyboards from them. For all the flak Acer gets, btw, at least on certain models they have IMHO the 2nd best laptop keys by a long shot, almost as good as the vintage Thinkpads. And since I absolutely hate the Thinkpad layout but love the Acer's (once remapped and extra buttons reprogrammed in the registry), I'd actually put that one on top.

The Thinkpad I started with was an R40, and my current one is a T400. I'd heard that when the model first came out the keyboard was pretty lousy--apparently Lenovo cut some corners on the metal backplate and people were getting some flex in certain regions. They apparently redesigned the model a bit, eliminating this problem and a few other issues, and thankfully this is the one I've got. I've seen what they've done with the X100e and Edge keyboards, and I'm not sure what to think. I loathe the chiclet style, but every review I've read about those two models has had nothing but praise for the keyboard, which makes me think there might be a way to pull it off without sucking. I was actually considering the X100e, but I'd heard some bad things about the Athlon Neo processors running hot and chewing through battery life; the dual-core models weren't out when my tax return was, and I couldn't resist the allure of switchable graphics in this T400. Still, a netbook form factor with Lenovo quality and a full-sized keyboard? Damn hard to resist.

Not sure if this would help your mouse ergonomic problem at all, but some of the more recent mechanical keyboards IBM made as well as the Unicomp Endurapro all have the Trackpoint built in, might ease a bit of the strain from mouse usage. Then again, I'm of the "Hunch over the keyboard like a gargoyle" school of computer ergonomics, so it could actually end up being worse for you. No idea, really. And for a combination of mechanical and ergonomic keyboard, something like this might be worth keeping an eye out for: http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cf ... tcat/12675

[cools]

Trackpoints are most definitely not ergonomic. Use one for a few hours at a time and you'll see.

[moozooh]

Well, if your mouse weighs a ton and you have to move the whole arm to track the cursor across the screen, you can definitely see the appeal of trackpoints. I, for one, always try to use light mice and smooth pads, so that you could move a mouse with your fingers alone.

[Warp_Rattler]

Trackpoints are most definitely not ergonomic. Use one for a few hours at a time and you'll see.

It's all I ever use on the laptop and has never bugged me; I hate touchpads and changed mine to control scrolling only. Like I said, though--I'm hardly the poster boy for safe and ergonomic computing.

[cools]

As far as I'm concerned, there are *no* ergonomic pointing methods available. I've tried them all:

1) Mice
2) Joystick mice
3) Trackballs
4) Air mice
5) Vertical mice
6) Touch pads
7) Graphics tablets
Touch screens

I've spent 4 figures over the years on various pointing input devices and the best out of the lot as far as ergonomics is concerned is the joystick mouse. Sadly it's also by far the slowest. Trackpoints put a lot of lateral strain on knuckle joints, and they're not built for it.

But this thread is about keyboards - and used correctly (piano style) keyboards rock.

[Pixel_Outlaw]

Well since this thread is on top again. Let me show my current collection. They are all mechanical even through two of them are not Model Ms.

[Enhasa]

As far as I'm concerned, there are *no* ergonomic pointing methods available.

Slightly off-topic as said, but I do have to chime in to agree with cools here. I've tried a bunch of stuff (all sorts of mice, trackballs, pads, trackpoints, etc), not quite as many as him though. The breaking point was when I decided to mouse left-handed, due to the keyboard having all the extra stuff on the right (which is the reason why numpadless or numpad-on-the-left boards exist, the standard layout was designed before mice became prevalent... it's the same reason why you need three hands to use keyboard + mouse), I surmised that I was having to reach too far with my right hand to mouse and that was causing problems. I switched with surprisingly little difficulty, but soon noticed the pain was just the same, only left wrist now. I instantly scrapped the ideas I had for getting a chorded keyboard (still a great idea IMHO, I'm a fan of the idea) like the FrogPad, because that wouldn't help my mousing hand anyway.

Once I ditched the mouse, my only regret was not having thought of it sooner. I don't miss it one bit. You'd be surprised how you almost never need to click anywhere, even in mouse-whoring Windows, and even on the web (if you use an extension like this or vimperator or conkeror). Actually the one thing that sounds interesting that I never tried, was using foot pedals. Academic research shows that the thigh or knee is actually the most efficient and accurate part of the human body for controlling input, food for thought. But I'm not paying a fortune for specialized solutions like foot pedals since I'm perfectly happy already.