Speaking of R-Type...I just ordered R-Type Final

[BUHA]

Well, Final is here now and I'm not enjoying it a whole lot.

Like some people have said, the first level is okay at first but it's just sooo easy and the enemies are so spread out that it's getting to be a real chore. The second level is a little better, but I hate fighting that boss. It's absolutely no fun to fight, at all.

ANd then there comes the third level. Some people said that the slowdown was inexcusable. I didn't believe them. I should have. Fighting that midboss is like trying to play Doom 3 on my computer. I can't believe they didn't do anything about it.

It's not a BAD game, but I have Delta and when I'm playing FInal I just wish I was playing it instead. I would say that Delta is worth the 35-40 bucks, totally. One of my favorite shmups. They really did everything right with that one. I don't know what happened with Final, though.

I know that the later levels are supposed to be better, but I'm so busy with Gradius V and my other games that it'll just have to wait

[visuatrox]

Hang in there, once you have endured the first three levels the fun begins

Although what is wrong with the second level boss, you just do a full charge a couple of times and he is dead

[dczx]

The game really picks up after level 3. I found it fun to try out some of the new ships too.

[BUHA]

on the second level boss, if his weak spot is on the other side of him it's a pain in the ass trying to hit him a little so it'll go back to the side that you're on.

I'll give the game another shot, and I hope you guys are right about the levels after the 3rd one.

[sethsez]

I'll give the game another shot, and I hope you guys are right about the levels after the 3rd one.

In my opinion, they're not. Level 4 is good, if a bit standard, but then you'll hit level 5, one of the saddest excuses for a shmup level in many years. The levels after are all decent to great, but 5 just about kills what is otherwise a pretty good game.

[BUHA]

ugh

Well I played Delta again like usual and didn't get anywhere, like usual, and I gave R-Type III on the SNES another try. Now THAT'S a good R-Type game! It really feels like playing the first one, but updated and a lot more refined.

I wish Final would have been the same way But at least I gave it a try. It's still not a BAD game, just dissapointing.

[Dartagnan1083]

I personally enjoyed the game...although I'd only give it a 7 or 8
The big things for me are the alternate stages and endings.

New ships are fun to try out, but really...all that the 100 ships do is artificially increase your play-time while offering nominal differences most of the time.

I would like to try the harder difficulties, but that's after I beat the sudden-death stage for the 3rd ending.
That level 5 boss is so freaking annoying.

[FatCobra]

New ships are fun to try out, but really...all that the 100 ships do is artificially increase your play-time while offering nominal differences most of the time.

Most of the time when you unlock a new ship, it's just a bit bigger and/or uglier and usually has 1 loop added to it's wave cannon.

Of course, the real fun begins when you unlock the ultimate three ships, which allows you to choose any Force, Wave Cannon, Bit, and Missile for them.

[silvery wings]

I think you will like Final in the end, despite its slow pace. There are so many unlockables it should keep you busy for a time.

Now I have a question for you: do you think R-Type Delta is worth $35-$40 used? I've been considering picking up a copy, but for those prices I want it to be all it can be!

R-Type Delta can be purchased new from Agetec's website for $29.99, so I wouldnt pay more than $25 used.

http://www.agetec.com/products.asp?MyVi ... Type+Delta

Edit: NVM, it's out of stock, sorry, maybe they'll have more at some point.

[Herr Schatten]

on the second level boss, if his weak spot is on the other side of him it's a pain in the ass trying to hit him a little so it'll go back to the side that you're on.

Just go to the bottom of the screen and shoot your force behind the boss before the battle begins. So you can shoot the vulnerable spot if it appears on the left side and have your force taking care of him if it appears on the right. Problem solved.

[WarpZone]

I gave R-Type III on the SNES another try. Now THAT'S a good R-Type game! It really feels like playing the first one, but updated and a lot more refined.

I wish Final would have been the same way

Did you notice III's first stage is comparable to Final's, in that you're sitting and waiting while the game just shows off its graphics in a gimmicky way? I'm not saying it's as bad, but still...

By the way, you'll probably find the second half of Final to be a bit better (certainly more difficult...) although it's not without questionable design choices. There are some infuriating issues with checkpoint placement later on- one of the reasons I just play with invincibility now, as I said.

_______

About the whole argument that the empty areas and slow pace are excusable in Final because they give it that eerie atmosphere, I only have to look at stage 2 of R-Type III: it perfectly captures that slow, plodding atmosphere (through the scrolling speed, rhythm to the dropping acid, music, etc.), yet it doesn't have spotty level design and mindless lag time. It uses enemies advantageously, gradualling layering more and more dangers as you progress through the stage. The increase in tension feels like the stage is gradually choking you- squeezing your neck slowly but surely until you nearly reach suffocation. To me this captures the emotional ideal of the series much better than Final's slow areas. It demonstrates that being "slow" doesn't necessarily mean that feelings of mounting pressure and intensity have to go out the window.

I think Final tried to do this, but the designers just got too distracted with other issues (or didn't have enough time). The concern for presentation is almost obsessive through the numerous tiny details- although many of them are superfluous and not interactive. Also, interviews indicate that they included such a huge ship roster because they simply wanted to "have 100"- certainly, that was the most marketable aspect of the game. But that also means the levels have to be playable with any ship you choose- with areas intentionally dumbed down just so they're loose enough to compensate for your wide range of possible firepower.

[sethsez]

Oddly enough, after playing through both games a bit more, R-Type Final seems to be closer to Gradius, and Gradius V seems to be closer to R-Type. Gradius is generally a looser game that R-Type, even when it's just as difficult, but Gradius V requires a bit more path-following than normal (which was to be expected from Treasure). Meanwhile, R-Type Final has so many ships with so many different abilities that it's not nearly as rigid as the series normally is, in order to accommodate all of them.

[BUHA]

I totally agree with what warpzone had to say about the second level of R-Type III. It scrolls slow as fuck, but it's still giving you a ton of stuff to dodge, enemies from all directions, and tight spaces to manuever through.

Final just SITS THERE sometimes!

[FatCobra]

Oddly enough, after playing through both games a bit more, R-Type Final seems to be closer to Gradius, and Gradius V seems to be closer to R-Type. Gradius is generally a looser game that R-Type, even when it's just as difficult, but Gradius V requires a bit more path-following than normal (which was to be expected from Treasure). Meanwhile, R-Type Final has so many ships with so many different abilities that it's not nearly as rigid as the series normally is, in order to accommodate all of them.

I wonder what kind of Force Vic Viper would have if it had one. The options do kinda look like little Force orbs don't they?

Gradius V had a much bigger levels because the player and alot of the enemies were really small. Add the small hitbox, and Treasure has an excuse to make lots of tight spots and a little memorization. Plus, you have one ship with a certain weapon set, so you can design stages around it (yes, I know you have different setups with the options, but it's still Vic Viper with options firing lasers).

In R-Type Final, your ship is alot bigger, so the play style will be a little different, plus, you can't have rigid level design when you have lots of ships with different weapons. Some ships are better suited for different tasks however. (Ships with Burst type wave cannons pwn the Stage 2 Nutsack boss).

[Stormowl]

RTF is fun if you play it on bydo difficulty.

i really liked the turbocharged feel that Treasure gave the Gradius series with GV. it really makes me wonder sometimes what a Treasure produced R-Type would be like...

[SuperNoodle]

Harrumph.

This thread piqued my curiousity about the game again, and I booted it up to see if my experience would be any different, seeing as I've gotten better shmup-wise than when I first took a crack at it.

Gosh darn it, I wasted about 10 hours over the last two days on this thing.

I got frustrated initially, same as before, about the same little things, but I shelved my pride at the door and cranked the difficulty down from Human to Kids, and the lack of losing powerups made the game playable for me. It's amusing getting one-hit boss kills with a fully-charged Wave Cannon or other.

I've earned about forty ships more in this period (mostly thanks to Slateman's excellent R-Type Final resources) bringing me to sixty... something. I must admit, there's a bit (but really, just a bit) more variety than I had initially figured, and the pile-bunker ships are just sublime.

For some bizarre reason, I'm locked in this Pokemon-esque ship collecting frenzy. The game itself's still flawed and pondering, and even the most promising of stages (3.5, 6.2, F-C) are hidden, and don't even really last long enough to deliver. Heck, F-C's really just a rehash of levels 5 and a mish-mash of 6 and fluff, with only one life to live. And yet I play on.

Curse you, POW armor and your rediculously fun detached Needle Force!

Curse you, Kenrouken and your merriment-inducing Hyper Tesla Pile Bunker!

Curse you, Eyeball-ship-thing on F-B for being so useless against our beloved R-Fleet!

Curse you, forty remaining ships that probably neccessitate an hour of flight time APIECE to unlock!

As it is, playing for survival and ships is fairly amusing, but whereas R-Type Final is amusing when one survives and wins things, something like Delta, or heck, Gradius V is just plain -satisfying- when one survives the slaughter attempts of the evil alien foes.

[kidneythief]

Single player is pretty ZZZ... (all descriptions I saw said 1 player) does it have the traditional turn-based multiplayer, or is it really just plain ONE PLAYER. Because that would be pretty lame. I guess passing over the controller when you die is sort of the same, but some people are gayer than others and cheat ;p

So yeah is it 2players turn or just strictly 1 player i wanna know O_O

[visuatrox]

I have never actually tried the two player mode, but actually seems to be a versus battle against each other.

[Kamakazie]

The game isnt that bad, its just got horrid slowdown at times.

[SuperNoodle]

Multiplayer's actually somewhat amusing and tense, almost moreso than the actual one-player game.

visuatrox is correct, 2-player is a versus mode, and the mode accommodates playing against the computer. You don't actually control your fighter of choice, but rather give it general AI settings and watch as it dukes it out with the other fighter, collecting powerups and engaging in wave cannon mayhem. So, there's no controller-passing-around to worry about; heck, no controlling at all!

The music's nifty, too -- catchier than the ambientish stuff of the main game.

I find the AI battle mode of Final to be incredibly amusing, but biased in favor of ships with autoaiming/bursting-type wave cannon, i.e. the Gallop ships, the R9-E series (Y'know, AWACS-looking), or the R-13 series.


Regarding slowdown in general: I never really noticed the slowdown too much, other than the Gains bit on level 3 where the camera pans back for the long, long view of the entire street. The game's fairly stable, as in stably slow and slow-paced. Nothing wrong with that, consistency's nice, and after several playthroughs, it seems that the game's actually fairly zippy: A runthrough using F-B as the ending stage takes about 20-odd minutes of flight time.

[dai jou bu]

RTF is fun if you play it on bydo difficulty.

i really liked the turbocharged feel that Treasure gave the Gradius series with GV. it really makes me wonder sometimes what a Treasure produced R-Type would be like...

R-Type Delta's level design mixed with R-Type III's bosses?