Gunbird runs in slowmo on ps2?

Spitlips · Post by **Spitlips** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:32 pm

Hello fellow shmuppers!

i have just watched the homemade "sega saturn shooting special" video (nice work!) and noticed how much faster Gunbird was running on the saturn in comparison to my ps2 (PAL) gunbird special edition.

Could this be due to a poor conversion of the game or is it a deliberate move from Psikyo?

And is there anyone out there, who has played the original arcade, who could tell which version runs at the correct speed?

Post by **Ghegs** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:39 pm

Perhaps you're running the PAL version in 50hz? That would explain any difference in speed. Switch 'n stick to 60hz.

Spitlips · Post by **Spitlips** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:14 pm

nah, i dont think those 5 extra frames per sec would show such difference in speed, but thanks for considering the idea.

This is probably not a big deal if you are just in
for the entertainment of the game, but if you ought to compare scores between systems,
this should be a factor to consider.

Post by **Ghegs** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:23 pm

Spitlips wrote:nah, i dont think those 5 extra frames per sec would show such difference in speed, but thanks for considering the idea.

Unless the PAL version is optimised, the game runs 17% (or something like that) faster in 60hz than in 50hz. It's very noticable and makes a big difference especially in shmups, fighters and racing games.

Danny · Post by **Danny** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:25 pm

Ghegs wrote:
Spitlips wrote:nah, i dont think those 5 extra frames per sec would show such difference in speed, but thanks for considering the idea.
Unless the PAL version is optimised, the game runs 17% (or something like that) faster in 60hz than in 50hz. It's very noticable and makes a big difference especially in shmups, fighters and racing games.

Yeah Ghegs is right dude most arcade games are running at 60mhz a second anything less than that will make a huge differance in speed.

Spitlips · Post by **Spitlips** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:40 pm

So far i have been quite satisfied with my pal games. It´s a bit annoying with
the black borders and the interlaced picture, but if what you say is true i might consider buying a new tv!

I have to check this out.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:39 pm

anyone know of a working mirror of that Saturn shooting special?

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:09 am

The Sega Saturn Shooting Special is on this webpage:

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query ... tle&page=2

Along with all the other Retro Core volumes. www.archive.org is a GREAT place to download video game replays; they even have a section of commercials and other old footage from old-school games!

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:00 am

dave4shmups wrote:The Sega Saturn Shooting Special is on this webpage:
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query ... tle&page=2

i had found it on archive.org but the link didn't work for me, i'll try again.

D · Post by D » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:57 am

Spitlips wrote:nah, i dont think those 5 extra frames per sec would show such difference in speed, but thanks for considering the idea.

This is probably not a big deal if you are just in
for the entertainment of the game, but if you ought to compare scores between systems,
this should be a factor to consider.

ermm that's 10 frames per second more and the game will run 20 % faster. Do the math!

zaphod · Post by **zaphod** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:16 pm

in ntsc, 200 frames takes 5 seconds.
in pal, 300 frames takes 6 seconds.

that *very* quickly ads up.
also you cannot "pal optimise" a shooter. shooters are utter SLAVES to the framerate.

kingmobster · Post by **kingmobster** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:58 am

zaphod wrote: also you cannot "pal optimise" a shooter. shooters are utter SLAVES to the framerate.

That isn´t quite true. You just have to make sure your game moves the same amount of units/second on all systems. Every game on PC does this to account for the difference in CPU/GPU-power.

D · Post by D » Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:59 am

zaphod wrote:in ntsc, 200 frames takes 5 seconds.
in pal, 300 frames takes 6 seconds.

In NTSC 300 Frame takes 5 seconds!
in pal, 300 frames takes 6 seconds.

fraggore · Post by **fraggore** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:28 pm

hi i got the pal one picked it up for £4.95 bargin its got 50hz and 60hz options on it havent notaced any slow down. but what i will say it looks like it is emulated not a convertion the background tend to shimer a bit like they havent got the right filter for it.
its a nice pack haveing gunbird 1 and 2 on there but you cant beat the dream cast one super smooth and better sound

zaphod · Post by **zaphod** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:52 pm

you can get away with floating framerates in a FPS game, but NOT in a shmup!!

EVERY frame MUST be visible! That's the golden rule of shmupping. That's why I hate robortron X so much, and why varth on ultracade was so dissapointing. it rameskips!
THAT's why you cannot "PAL OPTIMIZE" a shooter. droppng frames to bring the speed up is unacceptable.

The two choics are
a) slow down the game, and run it synched to the new refrest rate. This shows every frame, but doesn' tpreserve the speed.
b) run the game internally at it's native refresh rate, and you will have partial updates and tearing. this looks worse, but is more fair then droping frames. This is pretty much what MAME does, because the monitor refresh rate is rarely identical to the arcades.

antime · Post by **antime** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:40 pm

c) don't define everything in terms of the vsync. Ie. instead of defining an object's speed as "n pixels/frame" you define it as eg. clearing the screen in n seconds. Plug in your current framerate and resolution and there you go.

TVG · Post by **TVG** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:44 pm

there is no filter on GB2 ps2.
sound is pretty ok, not perfect but close.
resolution is good, no distortion.
yoko mode sucks, tho, flickers and distorts like whoa, only tate looks good, thats kinda bad for some people.
id say its pretty much arcade perfect on tate.
and the bullshit about how much it sucks was just that, bullshit.
no highscore save, but man, unless you're anal, it doesnt matter, you know which stage you reached and when you did your best run, if you wanna share, write it.
very slight loadings when the text appears before bosses, altho its almost nothing, like half a second, had then not write "now loading" during it, no one would notice. not to mention playing it with HD loader makes the game look like you're playing on a cartidge because it loads so fast :p
its closer to the arcade than the DC version.

gunbird 1 is another story tho.
neither yoko nor tate are fullscreen, the actual in game display is small, i dont know why, doesnt bother me too much but it kinda sucks.
slight pixel distortion, but not much.
horrible yoko.
sound is bad, not as bad as the strikers pack, but the sound of tetsu shots are god awful.
some glitches i think, like Ash's bomb doing no damage.

get gunbird 1 on saturn, but the ps2 gunbird 2 is perfectly fine.

kingmobster · Post by **kingmobster** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:57 am

antime wrote:c) don't define everything in terms of the vsync. Ie. instead of defining an object's speed as "n pixels/frame" you define it as eg. clearing the screen in n seconds. Plug in your current framerate and resolution and there you go.

What I was trying to say. You, however, are much more eloquent