The future of PCB's

[neorichieb1971]

Silence is golden, i'm speechless.

[Skykid]

Silence is golden, i'm speechless.

?

What is it you didn't agree with?

Personally I thought this forum was teeming with collectors. Essentially, however big the games collection is and whatever the focus, we're all guilty of hoarding in some form or another, so the apathy toward collecting featured in this thread is a little surprising.

The general responses here are encouraging me to sell my stuff, I really dislike being reminded about limited lifespans.

[dcharlie]

Personally I thought this forum was teeming with collectors. Essentially, however big the games collection is and whatever the focus, we're all guilty of hoarding in some form or another, so the apathy toward collecting featured in this thread is a little surprising.

shhh you! how will us collectors get our hands on Neo's hot wares if you keep posting this sort of thing!

please be quiet, we are all sitting over our Ebay accounts ready to pounce on ill advised board sales!

[Ed Oscuro]

Is £4000 that much of a big deal in the grand scheme of your life? You say you want to own these for 10 years or more - that's £400 a year.

This is the relevant part of your post (Aside: Sorry - didn't see where you were going with the wedding thing - and besides, a bit unfair to say that the woman wants everything at the wedding; a guy certainly has his own money sinks; isn't that what we're talking about?) and my thoughts on that are...actually, I get to your most important point only at the end.

4 grand old dames in the bank is nice; you can maybe even beat inflation with interest.

Playing the stock market is the way to make big instant games. This hasn't changed. Yet it's also a good place to totally lose your pants, and at the end of the day all your money has done is change hands back and forth, and you've got some pieces of paper (plus a lot of annual reports to read through) as an intermediate step to hopefully more money. Boring, but if money is the ultimate object, it can be worthwhile. Of course the folks who do day-to-day buying and selling tend (as I understand) to do poorly. That's the thing about investing: You put your money to work best when you can buy a tool you'll be using yourself, directly, rather than trying to guide it through the clenched parade of invisible fists of the market, sent off to some unseen agent of efficiencies at the far end of the world.

Some investors - serious investors who don't even have the time to look at their purchases - buy coins, not for a fuzzy feeling, but as investments, primarily. They trade them. It's possible. Buy low, sell to some sucker when you can. You don't need a gigantic win per item, just a nice steady rate of return. The knowledge of the intrinsic worth of an item cements faith in the item. In gaming, no serious investor is buying Stadium Events (if they do they're making a tactical, even strategic blunder).

This article states: "Ideal assets to put into an IRA are those that produce income that would otherwise be taxable each year, like the dividends and interest you earn on stocks, bonds and certificates of deposit." (That article might also be of interest to a certain gentleman who was recently interested in buying enough golds.) The smart-aleck response from the video arcade games crowd would be that we could press our games into service at any time. But few do and fewer still really want to do that with the rarest and most valuable.

This "£400 a year" is missing the point of investing. You don't calculate an investment by drawing it out along the length of time the investment is active, because the value of the investment is changing throughout that time - either going up or down, and whittled away by inflation all the while. You also hopefully get something out of it.

You do ask the most important two questions, though, which are whether the buyer isn't buying things they otherwise would not sanely consider, and whether they have mistakenly rationalized it as being "for the investment" and worthwhile. One of the saddest things that happens when combining collecting, gaming, and investing is somebody buying stuff they don't actually want because they think that they have to stick to the niche, and then having a firesale years later because the market for crap simply isn't very big. They have lost the freedom and use of their money, they have lost the opportunity to make real investments or to buy better entertainments, as you say, and they have wasted time on all that nonsense.

But I don't think it makes sense to be a fundamentalist and say "thou shalt not look towards PCBs with a serious eye towards investments." The answers to your two important questions (are you buying something you normally wouldn't, and are you wasting an investment opportunity) are not summed up in a single yes or no, but I see them as fitting on a sliding scale. Some people, not everybody, can make it work as a business; for the greater majority of people, the answer (for many, not all) games will be that it's a good set of tradeoffs. Smart operators do it for every other collectible known to man. In terms of cultural significance I think they are quite high, and unreplaceable in a way; think how many people still have original reel to reel prints of classic films, and I think we begin to approximate the idea.

[Skykid]

In gaming, no serious investor is buying Stadium Events (if they do they're making a tactical, even strategic blunder).

Yeah, I'd fully agree with that.

Richy, I'm just curious, as a split percentage how much of the hobby is for investment and how much would you say is for gaming. I still get the impression you play the stuff as well?

[cools]

The general responses here are encouraging me to sell my stuff, I really dislike being reminded about limited lifespans.

You definitely don't want me going on about the correct storage and handling of PCBs then

This is the relevant part of your post (Aside: Sorry - didn't see where you were going with the wedding thing - and besides, a bit unfair to say that the woman wants everything at the wedding; a guy certainly has his own money sinks; isn't that what we're talking about?) and my thoughts on that are...actually, I get to your most important point only at the end.

I was generalising based on societal norms - wasn't meant to cause any offence.

This "£400 a year" is missing the point of investing. You don't calculate an investment by drawing it out along the length of time the investment is active, because the value of the investment is changing throughout that time - either going up or down, and whittled away by inflation all the while. You also hopefully get something out of it.

Very true, but in this case the investment is already made, and has been made when the state of the market has been relatively stable and cheap. If the OP were to liquidate his collection now he would no doubt have to invest in other forms of entertainment, and who's to know if this would work out more costly? Console games certainly don't hold their value except in the rarest cases, and the way gaming is going we're going to lose physical product and resale entirely soon.

Richie's questions of whether or not the market for PCBs is going to be there in ten years time, and whether they're going to hold their value, are best answered by looking at other collectibles. You mentioned reel to reel prints, good example - they have the same limited lifespan, are sensitive to use.

Hell, look at the way certain titles have climbed up in price in Japan. I know people that are selling boards *back* to the Japanese simply because the market there is so good for them.

There's bound to be a market for them. Prices have risen an awful lot in the past 15 years. In some cases they've dropped, but the majority are up - it helps that retro is in fashion at the moment. Stuff failing will increase scarcity, and if the demand for the more desirable titles is there no doubt prices will continue to rise.

[Skykid]

Hell, look at the way certain titles have climbed up in price in Japan. I know people that are selling boards *back* to the Japanese simply because the market there is so good for them.

S'true, I couldn't find an Undercover Cops for anything less than £250 before any shipping costs from various Japanese vendors, but I managed to get one on AO recently for a lot less (after admittedly waiting forever).

There's bound to be a market for them. Prices have risen an awful lot in the past 15 years. In some cases they've dropped, but the majority are up - it helps that retro is in fashion at the moment. Stuff failing will increase scarcity, and if the demand for the more desirable titles is there no doubt prices will continue to rise.

So... there is an argument for retro gaming being a good monetary investment? Bonus!

(Now about this storing PCB's thing...? )

[brentsg]

It's a great hobby, no more.

I rarely keep more than 8-10 PCBs on hand (8 at the moment) but I mostly dig collecting them in kit form so that can account for a bit of an "investment" (ha) but I'm in no way expecting to make money, or even break even.

Don't get me wrong, I don't enjoy losing money but it's my hobby and probably still winds up being a lot more inexpensive than when I free spent my time as an NHL season ticket holder, etc. And heck, it was just a miracle that my Neo-Geo phase didn't lose me a ton of cash. I prob had $30K or so in Neo stuff at one time.

[cools]

So... there is an argument for retro gaming being a good monetary investment? Bonus!

(Now about this storing PCB's thing...? )

Maybe. However I'd argue that PCBs are a better bet than console games. It's rare that a console game recieves both a limited release while being popular. You can pick up a copy of Sonic the Hedgehog for peanuts. A mint boxed copy might set you back a bit, but to someone after a collection that gets played that's not such a big deal.

Virtual console games (emulation) like the Wii offers (and XBLA) wipe out a large portion of the market for popular old games. Flash carts, and multigames. Just for authentic play purpose (playing a game on the original hardware) - it's possible to do so without owning an original game.

PCBs, not so. You can convert certain games to others, but most of the time this isn't straightforward. To play an arcade game in an authentic way you need to own the board (Naomi netbooting excluded )

Storage/handling - how careful do you want to be? Take care with static discharge (no handling without being grounded, or the board in a sealed antistatic bag - http://support.necam.com/mobilesolution ... handle.asp. Don't vacuum!), and extremes of temperature and light. Keep away from liquids (ideally keep in a completely dry environment), check batteries. Clean edge connectors before use. Store boards in a manner that stops them sagging over time.

[Ganelon]

Prices have risen an awful lot in the past 15 years. In some cases they've dropped, but the majority are up - it helps that retro is in fashion at the moment. Stuff failing will increase scarcity, and if the demand for the more desirable titles is there no doubt prices will continue to rise.

Rather than just thinking of the few games that have risen up, why not look at a list of all arcade games released in the last 15 years and see how many have held their value? Hint: Less than 10% have gone up. Even in this genre, it's barely better (although Cave shooters have certainly held a greater percentage of original value than others). Make sure to consider the original MSRP when making price comparisons,. Those are terrible odds to be speculating on. If a game you enjoyed and purchased happens to go up, awesome, but now is definitely not the time to go hoarding for investment.

[kernow]

I can't think of a single person into pcb's who doesn't buy it expecting to recoup 95% of the funds if they sell it, and hopefully more. Everyone probably says 'no! I do it because I love the games' but thats not true. People even buy games they have no interest in, just to keep for a bit and sell on.

I'm looking - at you! yes you *glare*

I mean donpachi JP going for £160 nowadays - what an utter joke, one just ended on ebay for £100, I bought mine for £48 a couple years back from ECL, then it went £120 - £160. whats next.. £200 I guess. Stupid forum prices

Most of the older jamma stuff should be £50 - £100 really but forum hype and jackers make them £250 etc.

[Ganelon]

Maybe that's true for you and most people but I don't have a single game I'm not interested in. I don't buy games I have no interest in even though I've seen what some would say are crazy deals. I've even mentioned a couple of deals I've seen to others here and elsewhere (bad idea on afterthought since they likely went to people who didn't want the game enough that they were constantly on the lookup for an affordable price).

If there's a decent enough port, I don't even want to waste money on the PCB. There's just no point buying PCBs as an investment when moneymaking chances are so much better investing and there's no time wasted communicating/packaging/shipping. I mean, I can earn a cool 10% in 2 months keeping track a few minutes every few days; what game will get me that sort of return in that same timeframe?

[cools]

Prices have risen an awful lot in the past 15 years. In some cases they've dropped, but the majority are up - it helps that retro is in fashion at the moment. Stuff failing will increase scarcity, and if the demand for the more desirable titles is there no doubt prices will continue to rise.

Rather than just thinking of the few games that have risen up, why not look at a list of all arcade games released in the last 15 years and see how many have held their value? Hint: Less than 10% have gone up. Even in this genre, it's barely better (although Cave shooters have certainly held a greater percentage of original value than others). Make sure to consider the original MSRP when making price comparisons,. Those are terrible odds to be speculating on. If a game you enjoyed and purchased happens to go up, awesome, but now is definitely not the time to go hoarding for investment.

Ahh, if you're buying new (or nearly) and holding on then yes, definitely - prices are guaranteed to fall, they're unsustainable except to those with deep pockets.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Let's say we go back to late 2005, and buy a barebones Cave Ketsui PCB for $350.00 USD. Then word gets around that it's a better than expected Cave shmup PCB, thus the price naturally goes up and the demand for it goes up as well.

So with that intial $350 PCB investment, any money you make past the money paid for it is pure free money. Spend it any way you please.

Here's another example of a single console game purchase, if you brought a brand new sealed copy of TTI's Magical Chase back in 1994-1995 and didn't open it, it would fetch more than the current eBay ending auction prices for one used but in complete condition & super mint. Here's the kicker, nobody knew at the current time back in 1994 that TTI's release of MC was going to be the very last USA region Hu-Card release either. So if you bought one and held on to it over the last sixteen to fifteen years, you are bound to make a hefty return on it, of course assuming that you can find a buyer that is willing to pay crazy $$$ for it. As of right now, there aren't any current complete TTI Magical Chase Hu-Card set auctions listed.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Ex-Cyber]

Let's say we go back to late 2005

That's the crux of the problem. Investment is easy if you have a time machine.

[undamned]

The reason I brought up this thread is because i'm getting married soon and i've been asked to question if my investment in games is a logical one. Really, I just want some firepower to justify keeping my stuff. I know this opens a different can of worms for debate, but anyone getting into a life long relationship needs to know the other half is making justified decisions. Most likely i'll have to quit PCB collecting at that point of marriage, but i'll probably keep my games that i've gotten so far.

The reason i put this thread here in trading is because I wanted to know what the traders think.

Like Ganelon said, investments should be returning like 10%+. If you are not making enough to keep up with inflation (~5%), you are effectively losing money. I am certainly not making 5% overall on my arcade collection.

I just got married a little less than 2 years ago, so I'm well acquainted with your situation

I probably have at least $10k in arcade gear. Right now my wife and I have enough income to give ourselves an "allowance" each month. I can buy whatever I want with that money. Anything beyond that amount needs to come from somewhere outside of our budget, namely selling stuff. Last year I had some unexpected expenses come up and needed to come up w/ some fast cash. I combed my arcade stuff (and a bit of console stuff) and made about $1500 in a month (the scary part is, that wasn't even stuff I really cared about!). Not that my wife didn't already trust me, but it was actually nice for her to see me produce emergency money so quickly, and I think it furthered her faith in my hobby management skills

--- you can strap the parts needed to play arcade games onto a dog

CASE CLOSED.
-ud

[spadgy]

I can't think of a single person into pcb's who doesn't buy it expecting to recoup 95% of the funds if they sell it, and hopefully more.

While I'm not sure it's true of everyone, personally I agree with this.

I tend to justify the expense of buying a PCB by telling myself that I could get at least something like the price I paid for it back, and maybe a tiny bit more if I'm lucky. However, I don't buy primarily as an investment. I buy them because I love the games, and I use this rather fantastical notion that it's probably something like an investment to allow myself to go with what many of my friends see as an insane way to spend money. Surely I'm not the only one who fools myself in this way?

I also get a miniscule kick out the ridiculous nature of spending so much on a game. That's a very small put of the equation here, but I'll admit it's true.

As for the inflation of prices cause by forum hype and so on? I'm not sure. I subscribe to the view that most things of this nature are 'worth what somebody is prepared to pay'. If hype and so on piques people's interest then that's surely just a natural part of desirability and the subsequent effect on worth/value.

How much are you spending on the wedding? Typically the male half of a marriage isn't too bothered with spending large quantities of cash, and the female would like the moon on a stick. This is one day or one week of your life. Memorable, yes, but having a big wedding isn't going to contribute a large amount to both your long term happiness.

On this subject, I paid crap all for my wedding, and I got 280 people partying in a field for three days! And I (being a male) got the moon on the stick, in the shape of a cocktail arcade cabinet shaped wedding cake! Perhaps I should have held onto it and sold the filling on the trading station...

[Ganelon]

Let's say we go back to late 2005...

What would have made you pick Ketsui (and buy at $350 instead of upon first release in 2003)? If you had bought a bare Ibara for $350, you would still be in the red. Or if you bought DAI-OU-JOU or Espgaluda around that time, you'd have lost money by now. How about we don't even wait 5 years but rather stick to just this month?

Let's say we go back before this year's Kentucky Derby and I had enough confidence in Borel repeating that I placed a simple $300 bet on Super Saving placing first. I would now have $10,500.

Let's say we go back 1 month and I bought $300 worth of put options for Goldman Sachs to expire at the end of the month. I would now have over $100,000.

But you can't rely on that for sound investments. That's primarily luck and gambling (and we're not even getting into infeasible stuff like the recent Mega Millions jackpot).

Note that if I get a profit from my games, great. All I do is find games I want to play at reasonable prices hopefully on the lower end of the spectrum (I don't mind waiting to get a price I think is more appropriate). If I can later sell it off for the same amount, excellent; if not, no big deal. I buy brand new console games because I want to make sure I receive new games in excellent condition; I know 90%+ of them are going to lose value hard but hopefully, I'll have enjoyed them enough that it won't matter at that time.

For me, I already accept that there's an opportunity cost lost where if I don't use the money for games, I can use them to make money in an easier and more efficient manner. Some people seem to purposely buy duplicates cheap just to sell them right back for profit; that's a low handed method of gaining a profit that I have and would never do. So I guess if others were more comfortable making money, they wouldn't be treating games as a type of financial currency. But if you honestly enjoy and play the games you have, then sure, who wouldn't want their possessions to be worth more down the road?

[Ed Oscuro]

--- you can strap the parts needed to play arcade games onto a dog

CASE CLOSED.
-ud

I was hoping somebody would find that reference. Thank for enjoys!

This is the relevant part of your post (Aside: Sorry - didn't see where you were going with the wedding thing - and besides, a bit unfair to say that the woman wants everything at the wedding; a guy certainly has his own money sinks; isn't that what we're talking about?) and my thoughts on that are...actually, I get to your most important point only at the end.

I was generalising based on societal norms - wasn't meant to cause any offence.

Don't worry, none was made.

This "£400 a year" is missing the point of investing. You don't calculate an investment by drawing it out along the length of time the investment is active, because the value of the investment is changing throughout that time - either going up or down, and whittled away by inflation all the while. You also hopefully get something out of it.

Very true, but in this case the investment is already made, and has been made when the state of the market has been relatively stable and cheap. If the OP were to liquidate his collection now he would no doubt have to invest in other forms of entertainment, and who's to know if this would work out more costly? Console games certainly don't hold their value except in the rarest cases, and the way gaming is going we're going to lose physical product and resale entirely soon.

That's also a good point; obviously you don't want to "invest" in something only to find you really don't care for it and sell it at a loss soon after. That is, as I've said, something I have seen time and time again not just at Digital Press but also here with these "Getting out of the hobby" type posts.

I still don't see how dividing the total investment by the number of years held is an accurate measure of anything.

If you're looking solely at profit a better measure would be to do a back-of-the-envelope calculation for that 4,000 with inflation added in, to see if you're beating that, or better yet the 4,000 plus whatever percentage you estimate you can get from other sources of investment (recently such estimates always seem optimistic).

Of course I don't think people in the business of collecting as investment really do hold onto things for a long while if they can. I think that many of them are actually traders (buy low, sell high) unwilling to tie up cash in the long run for the reasons you have outlined before.

Richie's questions of whether or not the market for PCBs is going to be there in ten years time, and whether they're going to hold their value, are best answered by looking at other collectibles. You mentioned reel to reel prints, good example - they have the same limited lifespan, are sensitive to use.

In some ways they're the same, in others different. Most people who have reel to reel prints these days would rather hand-feed them into a scanner and make a new print off that for watching. Folks who had private screening rooms eventually have stretched, snapped, or burned up many of their prints. I think we can actually fare a bit better.

Hell, look at the way certain titles have climbed up in price in Japan. I know people that are selling boards *back* to the Japanese simply because the market there is so good for them.

So there's another point in favor of my theory that perhaps the market isn't full developed (or that it is developing rapidly as we're watching). Having enough of a price imbalance that sales look better in one territory than in others (which have been good so far for exporting) is a sign that PCBs simply aren't as appreciated in the west yet.

Of course it helps that the yen is almost historically high versus the dollar right now.

[jonny5]

these kinds of threads always confuse me...

personally, when i make a purchase, even large ones, once i recover from that expenditure i consider that money spent....i never buy things thinking like 'ok....this item is an IOU for $XXX'.....its consumption....

owning these game isnt costing you anything now....

the only concern for you from here on in is how much you can put into the hobby....

i guess i dont get the whole investment mentality....i buy games because i want them, not because its a sensible financial decision....

[Ed Oscuro]

owning these game isnt costing you anything now....

Yes it is. It's costing you storage. More theoretically, having spent money on it also has an "opportunity cost," which is economics slang for "when you spend money on one thing you lose the possibility of spending it on something else."

But as Ex-Cyber pointed out, you need a time machine if you really want to worry about "opportunity cost."

Bottom line...it's fine not to think of PCBs as an investment.

When the market starts looking to them as collectible investments, it will eventually be like the move in art: People have had a painting hanging on their wall for years have learned that it will cost more just to have it insured than they can afford, and the money aspect adds a whole dimension people don't want to deal with. For them, it's just a nice painting, but when they find out what it is "worth" it complicates their ability to own it.

Economics touches everything, because it just models what is going to happen; but you don't HAVE to worry about the investment point of view, probably not for another couple decades at least.

[neorichieb1971]

Yes I do play the games a lot. But I can guarantee you that the most expensive ones don't necessarily get played the most.

Out of the 4 cabinets -

LS-29 - Mr Driller 2 (played almost everyday, cost £45-£60, still costs that and its been in that cab since day 1).
Atomiswave - PS2 Wonderboy collection via Viletims adapter
New Astro Vert - Alcon (played every other day, paid 130 euros shipped, on par with current costs)
New Astro Hori - Strikers 1945 plus neo one slot (kit form, Paid $200USD, I don't know current value).


Mr Driller 2 bought about a year ago. (played probably 3-10 games a day if I can)
Alcon bought last month (played about 10 times today, but usually not at all)
Strikers 1945 plus kit bought around 2004 from neo store. (hasn't been on a while, perhaps 50 times this past year). However, I have changed the cart many times to another game.


Most expensive PCB - Mushimesama kit - Paid £300 approx in the last year or so (Skykid or Spadgy sold it to me with Ibara I think). In total i've played this kit about 100 times since bought.

Bought recently from AO - Money Puzzle exchanger and Magical drop 3 - £134 shipped from Sweden. MPE costs $229 on ebay on its own and hardly comes up.


Overall, maybe i'm waiting for bargain prices to come up. All the games i've bought were on a wanted list. At the moment that wanted list is down to 10 games ish - Rodland, Dondokodon, Cosmo gang video, Batman ninja baseball, Viper Phase 1, Dogyuun and Flying shark are on that list. They are not exactly titles that make you go "wow, they will go up in value over time". My main draw to PCB games are the tunes, colours and basic gameplay.

Now, you ask if I buy what I want or what I think is an investment. Thats hard.. Alcon was not on my wanted list. It was a curiosity satisfied that I could afford at the time. Feveron SOS and Ketsui are curiosities as well. Would I drop $800 on Ketsui today, YES.. Reason, because its a no lose gamble to me if I get 80% of that back. Would I keep Ketsui even if I didn't like and it hoard it like a bitch, YES, if I could afford to do that. Sorry, but its the truth.

The only Cave games I had a hardon for was Mushimesama after playing the PS2 blur port. I had to have the PCB for its cleaner graphics.

I have a proud collection. Overall my collection is about what I like. When Firebug came round last year he said my games collection was boring.. lack of 2 player games especially. However, he recommended Money Puzzle exchanger, and I bought that today. So we will see how that turns out.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Let's say we go back to late 2005...

What would have made you pick Ketsui (and buy at $350 instead of upon first release in 2003)? If you had bought a bare Ibara for $350, you would still be in the red. Or if you bought DAI-OU-JOU or Espgaluda around that time, you'd have lost money by now. How about we don't even wait 5 years but rather stick to just this month?

Let's say we go back before this year's Kentucky Derby and I had enough confidence in Borel repeating that I placed a simple $300 bet on Super Saving placing first. I would now have $10,500.

Let's say we go back 1 month and I bought $300 worth of put options for Goldman Sachs to expire at the end of the month. I would now have over $100,000.

But you can't rely on that for sound investments. That's primarily luck and gambling (and we're not even getting into infeasible stuff like the recent Mega Millions jackpot).

An opportunity arose to buy said barebones Ketsui PCB at that particular price point back in 2005 (this was before it skyrocketed in value).

And yes, that Mega Millions jackpot was hovering at $266 million. I did think about buying a few quck picks just for the novelty but passed on it. My loss since somebody did end up winning it all. You can't win if you don't play. I've personally seen California's Lotto jackpots climb to new record highs in the past, considering that the largest single state lottery, the above mentioned California Lotto jackpot, was won by a single person that made it into the Guinness Book of Records. It was crazy to see that particular Cali Lotto jackpot rollover and nobody would win it on a weekly basis for a really long stretch.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Magic Knight]

Don't you see, darling Bloom, glorious Bloom? It's so simple.

STEP ONE: We find all the arcade PCBs rotting away in arcades.
STEP TWO: We use a proxy in Japan to hoover up more PCBs on Yahoo Auctions. Lots of PCB sellers over there.
STEP THREE: You go to work on the broken PCBs and fix them up nice and clean. You can do it, Bloom; you're a wizard!
STEP FOUR: We open a shop on Ebay. And before you can say STEP FIVE, we *close* on Ebay!
STEP SIX: We take our million bucks and fly to *Rio!*

[kernow]

Bought recently from AO - Money Puzzle exchanger and Magical drop 3 - £134 shipped from Sweden. MPE costs $229 on ebay on its own and hardly comes up.

If I'm honest, that MD3 screamed 'boot'

Overall, maybe i'm waiting for bargain prices to come up.

The last MPE I saw went for about £70, its no way a $229 cart, another example of forum hype and jacking. Sure its rare, but its not a $229 cart. oh ok you mentioned ebay, well.. bleh

[neorichieb1971]

Well, isn't it up to the guys who know shit to shout it out when its a boot. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Besides, no matter what you say the carts don't come up often. I paid what I thought was a reasonable price. Its one thing to moan at people who hoard and try to profit, but your arguing the opposite stating I paid too much. Doesn't anything make you happy, do people have to hit bullseye?

[kernow]

I'm not arguing saying it. But yeah, you paid what you wanted so have fun with them.

[Casey120]

Nooooo... , I'm doing it wrong !!
My investment is down ...abandon ship...abandon ship..

I just buy what i like to play , don't want kits or anything that makes it more expensive than it is for just playing .
I don't buy the latest games , most expensive is Guwange for 275 , at 1 € a game i will have to play it 275 times to break even , what i am left with after that is pure profit ....i won a free PCB right there !

[jonny5]

richie...are you seriously worried about retaining value on <$100 pcbs?

thats like console games prices....when you buy a new console game, do consider how much it will be worth down the line?

i could possibly understand those kinds of considerations for high priced items, but not cheaper common pcbs

if mushi is the most expensive pcb you have i wouldnt worry about anything

it seems most of your investment in the hobby is in your cabs.....

[Skykid]

owning these game isnt costing you anything now....

Yes it is. It's costing you storage.

God damn, this is so true, and space equals freedom.