Superplay capture solutions

[Fudoh]

yes, that's the one. it's set to 0ms which mean that the VP30 delays the audio just as much as the video processing takes. The maximum negative amount available in each mode represents the actual processing delay.

[akumajo]

alright, when i was using xrgb3 and xselecty it was set to 0ms
i will recheck again all system with the maximum negative value

btw, another setup that should be final (i hope !) :


Also i checked xbox 360 to hdmi and xbox360 to yuv and i can't see any difference but as you said, i always have the possibility to use hdmi inputs of vp30.

[Fudoh]

Just for reference, my setup:



fullsize: http://pms.hazard-city.de/video_matrix.png

not all the connections are in place yet though....

[akumajo]

interesting, thx for sharing

[akumajo]

hi

almost forgot to post my results

480i sources to component input (xselecty + snes, ps2) > deinterlacing enabled > AUTO (-56ms) / Game Mode 1 (-6ms) / Game Mode 2 (-23ms)
480p sources to rgbhv input (xrgb3 + snes) > deinterlacing not available (its normal) > -6ms
480p/720p sources to component input (xbox 360, wii) > deinterlacing not available (its normal) > -6ms

so if i understand correctly :
- progressive sources with vp30 add 6ms input lag (less than 1 frame)
- interlaced sources with vp30 add less than 1 frame (gm1), 2 frames (gm2), 3,5 frames (auto)

so while using xrgb3 in B1 mode + VP30, total input lag should be 1 frame* (xrgb3) + 6ms (vp30) = maximum 22 ms, not bad right ?
*assuming xrbg3 input lag in B1 mode is 16ms

Do you know the correct ms input lag for xrgb3 in B0/1 modes ? We (I) just know its less than 1 frame in B1 mode, and 2 frames in B0 mode, accurate value would be nice to know or maybe i should ask to micomsoft but i bet you will be faster to answer.

[Fudoh]

480p sources to rgbhv input (xrgb3 + snes) > deinterlacing not available (its normal) > -6ms
480p/720p sources to component input (xbox 360, wii) > deinterlacing not available (its normal) > -6ms

nice, wasn't sure if this was implemented correctly, since there was a bug on the VP50 which was only fixed on the 50pro involving 3-frame lag on progressive inputs.

so if i understand correctly :

yes, all correct.

Do you know the correct ms input lag for xrgb3 in B0/1 modes ?

you could ask Micomsoft, but I doubt that you'll get a proper answer (with real values). B1 is much closer to 0ms than to 16ms. I doubt that the incoming fields (480i) or frames (240p) are really stored. Probably the lines are directly doubled and output...

The 6ms of the DVDO processor is really nothing to worry about. I run my 360 and PS3 through a 50pro and happily accept the 6ms delay for the added scaling and processing possibilites.

[akumajo]

here a quick review after 1 week of several tests

i finally know how to capture, edit etc...

the HDPVR have good h264 hardware but drivers are bugged, and for some reason it stopped to works yesterday (so RMA soon), i really heard bad things about HDPVR hardware/software on the internet

the software is shit (Arcsoft), for capture you need to use a third part software such as rcTVCap from Aragon.
for editing Sony Vegas is perfect but takes time to render
you can also use Handbrake if you want to upload your raw captures, it can reduce file size and quality is almost the same and it dont takes much time to convert (exemple : 223 Mb captures reduced to 93 Mb in 5 minutes)

you can encode from 0.2 to 13.5Mb/s, quality is very good at 4 Mb/s BUT with fast moving action scenes you will see bad pixelations so you need to use higher bitrates while capturing those kind of games

to conclude, hdpvr feels like a rushed product, the product is a good idea but it really need an update (hardware/software) and the support from Hauppauge is bad (check official forums you will understand why)
remember to use old driver from cd version 2.0 if you dont want the flickering bug ...

maybe i should try another product, Intensity Shuttle ? i'm just not sure how output works with this beast

Intensity Shuttle Key Features

* HDMI in and out.
* Component analog in and out.
* Composite video in and out.
* S-Video in and out.
* Stereo analog audio in and out.
* USB 3.0 connection to Intel x58 series computers.
* Powered via USB 3.0 connection.
* Uncompressed 10 and 8 video and compressed video capture and playback.
* Works with Premiere Pro, After Effects, Photoshop, Fusion and more.
* Includes Media Express capture and playback software.

Price is less than 200€.

[Fudoh]

I'm just not sure how output works with this beast

you get a capture tool called Media Express which captures .avi files and let's you choose between compresse MJPEG and basically uncompressed BMD codecs. Unfortunately you need a USB 3.0 input card to use the Shuttle. If you have a free PCIe slot you can buy the Intensity Pro instead. It's the same thing, just as an internal card instead of an external box.

[akumajo]

well i noticed more changes Intensity Pro vs Intensity Shuttle :
hdmi audio 8 channels
more format support (480p, 1080p)

about output, i mean what are you supposed to do with shuttle ? look at the picture

exemple :

xbox 360 > [hdmi input] Intensity Shuttle [hdmi output] > ????, is it a passtrough for TV ?

power and capture is done over USB 3.0

[akumajo]

from official website

Intensity is ideal for monitoring edits with real time effects, on the latest big screen televisions and video projectors, by connecting to the built in HDMI out.

Intensity Shuttle’s innovative design is compact and portable, plus you can plug inline with your cables because input connections are on one side, and output connections on the other! Intensity Shuttle powers from the USB 3.0 connection so you don’t need cumbersome power supplies.

am i missing something ?

[Fudoh]

hdmi audio 8 channels

which you likely don't need.

more format support (480p, 1080p)

480p: yes, that's missing from the older Pro version, but you got your iScan and 480p from XRGB/B1 is likely not to work anyway. 1080p is 24/30fps only, not 1080p60.

am i missing something ?

no ? Am I ? I was just saying that you don't have a USB 3 port on your current PC.

The internal Intensity Pro is passthrough as well.

[akumajo]

does Intensity Pro comes with a low profile bracket ?

[Fudoh]

No, the card is full height due to the 2 HDMI ports and the DB25 breakout connection on the back.

[ZOM]

more format support (480p, 1080p)

480p: yes, that's missing from the older Pro version, but you got your iScan and 480p from XRGB/B1 is likely not to work anyway. 1080p is 24/30fps only, not 1080p60.

Uh oh, I think something just did a dent in my plan; Does the above mean my Intesity won't recognize my psx hooked to a FX2(vigatec)?

[Fudoh]

yes, that's unfortunately right. Blackmagic did not support 480p until now because it's not a recognized broadcast standard.

[ZOM]

So, hypothetically, if I scale the FX2's output to 1080p and feed it to the intensity, it'd be still no good because that'd be 1080p@59.94/60 right?

I was thinking that with the stuff lying around at my place I could find a temprary solution to stream 240p material... looks like getting a second capture device is the easiest way then.

[Fudoh]

There are Scart to 720p boxes, small, easy to use, $80-ish I would say.... not to say anything about the quality though. I would try to stay on the Intensity since it's a nice device with good quality capture. Looking out for a cheap 2nd hand video processor which can upscale to 720p is probably the best solution.

[akumajo]

i'm currious about hdd requirement while using intensity pro, one sata2 drive isnt enough right ? raid needed ?

maybe an external usb 3.0 hdd + intensity shuttle can be an alternative ?

[Fudoh]

i'm currious about hdd requirement while using intensity pro, one sata2 drive isnt enough right ? raid needed ?

One HDD is enough to capture 720p in MJPEG codec. Quality would be about the same as HDPVR on highest settings. For uncompressed recording (120MB/s) you need a Raid0.

maybe an external usb 3.0 hdd + intensity shuttle can be an alternative ?

An external USB 3 HDD has about the same speed as an internal SATA HDD. E-SATA also. The question remains: do you have a mainboard with USB 3 already ?

[akumajo]

ok let's see

minimum hdd speed requirement for intensity pro (from pdf manual), 720p is the maximum that i need
compressed video hd 720p/59.94fps : 5MB/s
uncompressed video hd 720p/59.94fps : 107MB/s

well if you say that MJPEG codec is as good as hdpvr highest settings (13MB/s) i can live with that

now, what are you doing when you have your compressed video hd ? editing etc, then compressing ? to h264 ?

about usb 3.0, they are selling pciexpress card for 40/45€ with 2 ports

[ZOM]

^Did you run BMD's HDD speed test?

Nowadays you can easily record uncompressed 8-bit 720p or even 8-bit 1080p without spending too much money.

For reference: http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd32 ... e/Raid.png
I get those values with two 250gig low-cost Seagate Barracudas.

[Fudoh]

well if you say that MJPEG codec is as good as hdpvr highest settings (13MB/s) i can live with that

you can try the codec beforehand. The codec's not limited to the hardware.

now, what are you doing when you have your compressed video hd ? editing etc, then compressing ? to h264 ?

whatever you do right now. The difference's that BMD's codecs are VfW which allow you to use more apps (e.g. Virtual Dub). The editing is also i-frame based which allows you frame-exact editing without re-encoding.

[Fudoh]

compressed video hd 720p/59.94fps : 5MB/s
well if you say that MJPEG codec is as good as hdpvr highest settings (13MB/s)

note that the BMD specs are in Megabytes/sec while the HDPVR h.264 settings are in Megabits/sec.

[akumajo]

ok, so hdpvr is approx ~1.7 MB/s

editing without re-encoding is really a big plus to me, i will wait for shuttle reviews, soon i hope

another question about encoding, anyone tested with a GPU (nvidia cuda) ? i heard about MediacoderHQ software

[Fudoh]

I tried Badaboom (Nvidia's h.264 encoder), but I usually use Mainconcept Reference. Not sure if it has Cuda Support, but the results were definitely better than with Nvidia's encoder.

The Intensity Shuttle and Intensity Pro hardware are the same. I talked to BMD the other day and the new 480p feature is just software question. The only point I'm a bit sceptical about is that with a external USB 3.0 HDD and a Shuttle you are getting very close the maximim PCIe bandwith limit of (theortical 2.5Gbit/s), so I would still choose an internal Raid if you device for uncompressed capturing.

[ZOM]

... I talked to BMD the other day and the new 480p feature is just software question...

Wot? Does that mean that they could've done a firmware upgrade & new drivers to support 480p for Intensity pro owners at any time but they just didn't bother? Oh brother...

[Fudoh]

That's right, but the NAB was only a few weeks ago, so give them a little time. New products always have priority. If they don't update the software to 480p in the next FW or the one after that, I'll get in touch again...

[ZOM]

Yeah, I just noticed they just did a new driver version a few days ago. Shows they're doing something for their "older" products. I'd be a happy camper if they really decide to give us the 480p recording ability. I'm patient.

[Fudoh]

Just installed a new capture array (onboard ICH10R controller):

[ZOM]

Good stuff, beats my barracudas x2. What disks do you use?

On a sidenote, sick how much power you need to get that 4:4:4 1080p at reasonable rates.
Oh well, I remember the days where companies payed $12,000+ for a Matrox card.