Tell us the daft crap non shmuppers say about the genre

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Particularly Cave videos because at least half the comments will be touhou fans saying how easy it is by comparison

This. One of my biggest pet peeves, actually: ignorant fanboys talking shit about games they have never played.

Those that think they could ace a hard shmup only after they have watched a video of it.
this one from a zillion beatz vid is a classic as ppl keep on asking Arcaeil777 if he's done it yet, both on the vid and on his profile page http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVWDnb0HYhA

Raging at touhou tards has become abit of a thing for me this week. And yes that is me on the futari video telling a touhou tard off anyway i thought whats the point in getting angry when i can just laugh at their dumb fuckery. Ppl those who make these comments dont give a crap about someone getting upset, they are more likely to care if they are laughed at and called the dumb fucks they are.

[Taylor]

Particularly Cave videos because at least half the comments will be touhou fans saying how easy it is by comparison

Huh. I've run into a Touhou fan or two who thinks Futari on anything is the hardest thing ever.

I don't doubt that. But you only need to do a search for touhou in comments like this for a groan or five. For the record I wasn't having a go at touhou fans in general (that is Parsee in my avatar, after all).

[Jeneki]

I've posted these elsewhere, but I'll include them here for completeness.

From Daisho Con 2009:

"Is this Radient Silvergun?"
"No, this is Raiden IV"
"Oh ... so is this the game Raident Silvergun is based on?"

From Anime Detour 2010, with regards to Futari:

"Can you put in that one old game?" (points to the 360)
"Which one?"
"Uhh ... the one that plays like Galaga."
"Did you play as a space ship, helicopter, or flying person?"
"It had some bugs in it."
"Ok, I know which 'old game' you are talking about."

[ncp]

I don't doubt that. But you only need to do a search for touhou in comments like this for a groan or five. For the record I wasn't having a go at touhou fans in general (that is Parsee in my avatar, after all).

Yeah that's always fun. Didn't even have to scroll down at all to find

This doesn't seem too hard. Now Subterranean Animism, that's some real bullshit.

Look at the player's shot type, it's not like they're going to miss the boss. And they bomb constantly. There are enough spaces in between the bullets to dodge, the player just sucks.

Looks like your run-of-the-mill danmaku, and the guy playing it just REALLY sucks at it.

[captpain]

How in the hell does that look like run of the mill dnasdkgjffffffffffffffff

[clp]

lol the touhou wankers are hilarious in there minds more bullets = harder game , id fucking love to sit one of there fanboy asses down to some old skool minimal bullet ass whooping like turbo force and film the response.

[Exarion]

lol the touhou wankers are hilarious in there minds more bullets = harder game , id fucking love to sit one of there fanboy asses down to some old skool minimal bullet ass whooping like turbo force and film the response.

Give them an R-type game. I could 1cc Imperishable Night on normal when I actively played the Touhou series, but cannot even get past stage 1 of R-type. I can get to Stage 3 of Gradius (NES).

[Adigun A. Polack]

I have just spotted some sheer half-assed buffoonery in the form of a statement about us shmup fans that reviewer Todd Ciolek of this X-Button article on Anime News Network (ANN) wrote in his review of Espgaluda II (XBox 360 JP release) from March 17, 2010:

They claim that shooters like ESPgaluda II are meant to be played and mastered to the point where you can finish them on one credit. These people are all insane. If a game relies on players to challenge themselves, there's something wrong, and good designers don't let players walk all over their games.

To me, that is just utter, insultingly repulsive, brain-dead sacrilege horsecrap right there, because:

• 1) Some shmups are MEANT to be cleared on one single credit, especially with some good, good practice and skill on mastering the levels one by one right from the word “GO!” on the first stage. It takes some time and study of such games as you play them, and that is where your learning experience for each really comes in.
  
  2) Shmups are SUPPOSED to give you some damn good, balanced challenge that slowly raises from moderate to hard and then some as you go right along (especially where the difficulty rank is concerned, too!), giving players and even newcomers plenty of time to get used to the game’s levels and thereby increasing their own skills and even allowing them time to enjoy the game more and more. And yes, this *applies* to bullet-hell shooters, too!!
  

And if a shmup is either too easy or has unbalanced, stupidly frustrating difficulty all throughout, then what’s the damn point in having to play it much in the first place, hmmmm!?

As for that reviewer there, somebody oughta get him fired for having the FRICKING nerve to call us insane deliberately... wow, to say that something is wrong with him is an understatement! WHAT A FORSAKEN-ASS NUT-JOB, I must definitely say as far as I am concerned about that reviewer there on that!!! !!

I mean, listen, I have reviewed certain freeware games from years back (and have even been one of the judges of SHMUP-DEV Competition 2k7 Round 2 over at the Shmup-Dev forums, previously! ), and known firsthand that the important thing to do when writing your reviews is that you *never* insult a certain gaming audience, even if you have not played a shmup before in your life or don’t know those people, either. BOTTOM LINE, period.

[Klatrymadon]

Amateur games journalist in "not really knowing his source material or his audience" shocker!

[Adigun A. Polack]

Amateur games journalist in "not really knowing his source material or his audience" shocker!

Boy, you got that one right for sure... I mean, note to ALL game reviewers: if you are gonna review games, okay, review them like you’ve got some damn sense!! That includes learning to know your gaming audiences well as well as other audiences in different genres of gaming (including to us shmup fans, too, let us not dare forget!! ) and giving honest, full-scale reviews properly like you are supposed to, covering as many aspects to a certain game as possible leading towards a balanced review score for that game indeed.

Another thing, if one were to go around and insult a certain gaming audience just to garner attention from his/her own audience (especially in this case, the oooey-goooey anime crowd!), it’s like you might as well throw away rather the whole entire review instead of even having it published on the web or in print in the first place, you know!? !!

[Schrodinger's cat]

I was showing off the newest 360 Cave shooters to some people I knew and when their friends came over they were saying things like "Damn, that's impossible unless you're Japanese" and "Wow there's probably only one way to dodge that and he has it all memorized!"

There is nothing I really hate more than the whole "memorizer" reputation the genre gets. It's a degrading excuse that downplays any other skills involved with getting good at a game. You NEVER hear stuff like "That loser has no skill because he just memorized item respawn times and map layouts!" in regards to pro Quake players, or "Man, he's only good because he memorized every possible attack combination in SFIV!". Only with shooting games.

It's the dumbest argument ever and is contagious among idiots who think that every frame of a shooting game must be memorized. It's just like saying "Oh man! He knows how to walk to work so he must have memorized all of his footsteps getting there!" You learn how to react to things after a while... it's not all rote memorization for crying out loud.

[captpain]

I was showing off the newest 360 Cave shooters to some people I knew and when their friends came over they were saying things like "Damn, that's impossible unless you're Japanese" and "Wow there's probably only one way to dodge that and he has it all memorized!"

There is nothing I really hate more than the whole "memorizer" reputation the genre gets. It's a degrading excuse that downplays any other skills involved with getting good at a game. You NEVER hear stuff like "That loser has no skill because he just memorized item respawn times and map layouts!" in regards to pro Quake players, or "Man, he's only good because he memorized every possible attack combination in SFIV!". Only with shooting games.

It's the dumbest argument ever and is contagious among idiots who think that every frame of a shooting game must be memorized. It's just like saying "Oh man! He knows how to walk to work so he must have memorized all of his footsteps getting there!" You learn how to react to things after a while... it's not all rote memorization for crying out loud.

Pssh, you only knew how to write this post because you've memorized a bunch of different words.

[Schrodinger's cat]

Pssh, you only knew how to write this post because you've memorized a bunch of different words.

I 1CC'ed English class.

[The Coop]

Pssh, you only knew how to write this post because you've memorized a bunch of different words.

I 1CC'ed English class.

1LCed it here and didn't 2nd loop it... which is good in this case.

[Ruldra]

"Damn, that's impossible unless you're Japanese"

My brother once said I was becoming a japanese for trying to 1cc Gradius V. And another guy once saw me no-missing the stage 2 of DDP and said I should become a professional player

I don't even bother anymore. Let them say whatever they want about shmups, I'll just shrug and enjoy my 'impossible japanese games' by myself.

[neorichieb1971]

My brother once quoted "I don't know how you can play games like that, I think something is wrong with my eyes, I just can't grasp all that chaos on the screen".


Someone should make a shmup with a bullet meter. Instead of difficulty you can just put the meter up and down. The higher the meter the higher the score goes up. That way you can 1cc the game easily, but challenge yourself with the bullet meter. If I were making a shmup I would use that system.

I would like to see a shmup with artistic design as well though. Its not always about bullets.

[Jeneki]

There is nothing I really hate more than the whole "memorizer" reputation the genre gets. It's a degrading excuse that downplays any other skills involved with getting good at a game. You NEVER hear stuff like "That loser has no skill because he just memorized item respawn times and map layouts!" in regards to pro Quake players, or "Man, he's only good because he memorized every possible attack combination in SFIV!". Only with shooting games.

I hear people say this about rhythm games quit a bit as well. "That guy is only good at Beatmania because he memorized everything." Which is super funny because a lot of high-end Beatmania players use the random feature.

[-Bridget-]

I could quote endless comments from idiot Touhou players, but there's one I always remember.

There was one person I knew who had only played Touhou and of COURSE thought it was THE representation of the genre. And of course, holy crap, how HARD the Touhou games are, look at this guy, oh geez, how does he DO that, and blahblahblah.... so I figured, ok, I'll show him some of Futari.

Showed him some videos, tried to point out some of the differences, and why Touhou isnt instantly the best thing ever, and his response was:

"But wait, these bullet patterns arent even geometric or colorful. How is this better than Touhou?"

Pretty sure I swatted him with something at this point.


Oh, and my favorite really-common quote from Touhou fans, when seeing non-Touhou danmaku games:

"But where are the loli girls?"

*facepalm*

[johnwroachiii]

My wife says they all look like Ikaruga.

I think she just says it now to piss me off, though.

[croikle]

They claim that shooters like ESPgaluda II are meant to be played and mastered to the point where you can finish them on one credit. These people are all insane. If a game relies on players to challenge themselves, there's something wrong, and good designers don't let players walk all over their games.

What he's arguing for here is limited continues, which is probably a good thing for the general public. However, if you didn't allow continues at all, or limited them too much, I suspect the complaints would go from "too short, too easy" to "WTF impossible how do they expect me to beat this game???". You can't win.

[gs68]

"Japanese (or sometimes just Asians in general) = godly at every video game" and "you must be Japanese in order to play so-and-so" are two of my berserk buttons.

I'm Filipino (and therefore, by many stretches of the word, Asian), and those kind of statements offend me. I don't care if it's a positive stereotype; it's still a stereotype. I dislike stereotypes in general. That and "positive" stereotypes force the victim group to live up to unrealistic expectations.

[Adigun A. Polack]

They claim that shooters like ESPgaluda II are meant to be played and mastered to the point where you can finish them on one credit. These people are all insane. If a game relies on players to challenge themselves, there's something wrong, and good designers don't let players walk all over their games.

What he's arguing for here is limited continues, which is probably a good thing for the general public. However, if you didn't allow continues at all, or limited them too much, I suspect the complaints would go from "too short, too easy" to "WTF impossible how do they expect me to beat this game???". You can't win.

You do make a pretty valid point about the limited continues there, croikle. Say for instance, you start a new game out with three (3) continues at starting maximum when you first play. Then, even when you do hit a “Game Over” and run out of continues somewhere along the line, 1 extra continue is added to your max reserves for at least every hour of playtime that you log into a shmup that you are trying to clear. At least here, it will help you hone your skills toward beating the whole game on one single credit. You get what I am saying here?

That way, at least it is MUCH better efficiently than having to credit-feed the thing to death.

However, when that reviewer at ANN calls us all insane on purpose for “claiming” that shmups are meant to be played and mastered to the point of a 1CC, that kind of stops being honest and instead depraves itself into something rather insulting, resorting to nothing more than just pathetic backlash and namecalling ( )... and that is where that review crosses the line and becomes a definite throwaway right there, don’t you think?

[FIL]

They're all just Xevious anyway.

[Davey]

A friend was once watching me play DOJ, and it was a few minutes before he realized it was a PS2 game. "Oh, I thought this was for Genesis or something."

Some other friends laughed when I told them that the PS2 couldn't handle Ketsui. I think they thought I was joking.

Someone should make a shmup with a bullet meter. Instead of difficulty you can just put the meter up and down. The higher the meter the higher the score goes up. That way you can 1cc the game easily, but challenge yourself with the bullet meter. If I were making a shmup I would use that system.

Gunroar is kind of like that. It has forced scrolling, but you can push forward to make it scroll faster. By doing so you increase the score multiplier, but at the expense of increasing rank. But the game never ends, so no 1CC no matter how you play it.

[Sasupoika]

When you first start playing you don't have any continues! However after every 30 mins of playtime u unlock an extra continue, along with a whole bunch of useful game modifiers. Just keep playing and this game becomes stupidly easy.

[AraraSPAMWitch]

Give them an R-type game. I could 1cc Imperishable Night on normal when I actively played the Touhou series, but cannot even get past stage 1 of R-type. I can get to Stage 3 of Gradius (NES).

damn bro, you're ASS

But yeah, I always felt bad because people here always talked about how easy the Touhou games were, but I've always been fucking terrible at them. I usually have an easier time with Cave games. But after a week of playing Galuda II I picked up Imperishable Night for the first time in a year and 1CC'd it on my first try. Game takes zeroooooooo skill, I think I just sucked ass a year ago

I would like to see a shmup with artistic design as well though. Its not always about bullets.

New thread idea: Tell us the daft crap shmuppers say about the genre

[neorichieb1971]

Are you implying what I said was a crap idea?

Caves philosphy or gameplay structure is what is done with the bullets. Have you ever navigated a maze in a cave game? Have you ever used fire and ice in a cave game? No, its all lollies.

[EPS21]

Have you ever used fire and ice in a cave game?

If you're still going by the artfag idea, then Stage 3 in mushi and Stage 2 in futari, respectively. Unless you're talking about shot types or something, its been done in Dimahoo, not a good gimmick though imo

Have you ever navigated a maze in a cave game?

Isn't dodging a complex bullet pattern a maze in and of itself right there?

No, its all lollies.

Oh boy here we go again.png

[Acid King]

From Anime Detour 2010, with regards to Futari:

"Can you put in that one old game?" (points to the 360)
"Which one?"
"Uhh ... the one that plays like Galaga."
"Did you play as a space ship, helicopter, or flying person?"
"It had some bugs in it."
"Ok, I know which 'old game' you are talking about."

Fucking classic.

[ncp]

Are you implying what I said was a crap idea?

Caves philosphy or gameplay structure is what is done with the bullets. Have you ever navigated a maze in a cave game? Have you ever used fire and ice in a cave game? No, its all lollies.

WTF AM I READING