Question about Valkyrie Profile 2

[evil_ash_xero]

Is this game a cutscene fest?

Dragon Quest VIII's level of cutscenes was fine for me, but Tales of Vesperia was too much for me.

[Daigohji]

Well, it is a JRPG, so there are a lot of cutscenes, but I don't recall them being unusually overbearing in length. What I do remember is that the story and characters are trash compared to the first game. VP1 was unique among RPGs in concept and structure, and the many vignettes it revealed into people's final moments were engaging. By comparison, VP2 has a stock whiny princess with a personality disorder (or rather the valkyrie in her head), a cast of stock fantasy stereotypes, and a generic fantasy quest plot. It bored me to tears, and I sold it after only getting 15 hours in.

[Elixir]

VP2 is pretty bad gameplay wise, yeah. But it's probably the best looking PS2 game ever made.

Vesperia's story wouldn't make much sesne if you skipped the cutscenes. I've been playing through it recently (in Japanese) and it feels like, at least, you'd only be playing half of the game if you just skimmed through everything.

[Drum]

The cutscenes are insufferable. Just awful. But there aren't an inordinate amount and they're skippable iirc.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The first VP's plot, while certainly original, wasn't great. The sequel's plot, while not bad as far as I can tell, left me rather cold after 30 hours or so (haven't finished it). The cutscenes are okay (even with the western voice acting) and it's by no means a cutscene fest. All things considered you can easily ignore the plot and focus on the gameplay. I left it unfinished due to the overall meh-ness, played through the PSX original which is fantastic, and now seems like I owe the sequel another go. I wouldn't play either for the story, though.
P.S. Don't fall for "the best looking PS2 game" hype. It's got pretty character models, some nice looking locations (and some Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V style blatantly indistinct environments for a good measure), flashy soft light and a mixed bag of animations (the jump animation is a poor joke for example). The presentation is somewhat patchy.

[Ruldra]

VP2 starts slow but it gets better later on. At first I was so bored I wanted to quit, but after chapter 3 the plot gets more interesting and I was hooked enough to go all the way to the end. Overall it's a really fun game, I recommend it.

Unfortunately I never had the opportunity to play VP1...everyone says it's great.

[Obiwanshinobi]

To be fair, VP1 is also in a way overhyped. Technically it's pretty broken (funny how tri-Ace keep thinking they know better than, say, Konami how to make a 2D platformer), but it rocks hard nonetheless.

[LtC]

Unfortunately I never had the opportunity to play VP1...everyone says it's great.

VP1 had great setting, characters and story but VP2 had everything else way better.

VP2 has a very addicting battle system, you get rewarded for breaking enemies. Nothing's more awesome than complete overkill while turning enemies into mincemeat in the progress.

There's also a great soundtrack and it adds up a lot of replayability that you can change the music for battles in New game + (Along with hard mode).

[Elixir]

I think the biggest issue VP2 had was... the fans were expecting something as interesting as the first game, or at least, similar. It wasn't anything like the original.

As far as I know, the combat system in VP1, the ability to shape your own path, and the art were all something that hadn't been seen in an RPG before.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Um, "the ability to shape your own path"? I do not comprehend. Even jRPGs such as Suikoden I&II and ChT felt less linear than VP, not to mention Fallout (1997). Although the combat system in VP was all about crafting your own style indeed.
There are, like, three different endings: one you get when you piss off Freya enough by not following the orders (or you suck at the game pretty badly), the "meh" ending you're most likely to see if you just play the game, and the "proper" ending you have to meet very special conditions to see (I doubt anyone got that ending without looking up some FAQ). The first and last endings are pants on head hidden; at no point of my (almost) FAQ-less playthrough I felt like I was making any significant choices, story-wise.
In the art department, VP for the most part is second to none (certainly not to its own sequel). When I hear "valkyrie", though, I expect to see some viking shit once in a while (because I have grown on such imagery), whereas VP provides virtually anything of this nature. Just your bog standard Japanese European medieval renaissance Transylvanian rustic gothic oriental fantasy fare. It's like a tale from the era when Leonardo da Vinci built Ark of the Covenant for Charlemagne to defeat the united evil forces of Ivan the Terrible and Genghis Khan. Go Japan go. I have no idea whatsoever why, despite all this talk about Odin, Asgard, valkyries and elves, Japanese don't seem to take any inspiration from the actual early medieval, pagan Europe. People lived in Europe way before Christianity became such a cultural adhesive. That's what I'd like to see reflected in a game about valkyries.
Which is not to say VP isn't very unique a jRPG. On the PS2 Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter was another jRPG this unique (alhough its combat was more along the lines of Fallout).

[Elixir]

Yes, VP1 is the least linear jRPG I can think of. It really isn't difficult to comprehend at all. The game is based on turns of events, and you can choose to visit whatever town you want and do whatever you want, spend those days however you want. You don't have to give up items to Odin and so on.

I love how Fallout always enters jRPG discussions... that game might as well not even be in the RPG category.

[Drum]

I love how Fallout always enters jRPG discussions... that game might as well not even be in the RPG category.

what

[Obiwanshinobi]

Freeroaming of sorts was a standard in computer and console RPGs before VP came along. VP I played on Normal was a game where in each turn of events I was given enough time to play through every new chunk of content. The illusion of non-linearity has worn out rather quickly for me. I did always have the time to pick up every new hero's soul available and to pillage clean every new dungeon available. I know just about every jRPG can be taken apart along those lines, but to me Suikoden I&II's worlds always seemed bigger than I could grasp at the moment. Yes, it came at the cost of wandering cluelessly now and then, fighting too many unwelcome jRPG trash easy battles for my liking, but I hardly ever felt like I did everything there was to do.
By the way, I offered the first item to Odin, only to regret it ever since. The punishment for keeping items for yourself isn't severe, to say the least.

[Elixir]

I love how Fallout always enters jRPG discussions... that game might as well not even be in the RPG category.

what

do you really want me to explain why comparing linear jrpgs to a non-linear western fps/hybrid is a bad idea

[Obiwanshinobi]

I love how Fallout always enters jRPG discussions... that game might as well not even be in the RPG category.

what

do you really want me to explain why comparing linear jrpgs to a non-linear western fps/hybrid is a bad idea

Just priceless. Quoted for the future generations.
Fallout. 1997. Black Isle Studios.
Does this look like an FPS to you?

As far as I know, the combat system in VP1, the ability to shape your own path, and the art were all something that hadn't been seen in an RPG before.

Hey, did someone just call Valkyrie Profile an "RPG" with no "j" whatsoever?

[Drum]

Just priceless. Quoted for the future generations.
Fallout. 1997. Black Isle Studios.
Does this look like an FPS to you?

It's even nuttier than that. He's just been talking about how VP isn't linear, then uses non-linearity as a point of difference between it and Fallout. And even if we were talking about Fallout 3 - why would it's first-person perpective disqualify it from RPG-dom any more than VP's platformer aspects?

[Elixir]

Does this look like an FPS to you?

No, it looks like a point and click adventure game.

Hey, did someone just call Valkyrie Profile an "RPG" with no "j" whatsoever?

Why would you even think of taking something I said out of context?

It's even nuttier than that. He's just been talking about how VP isn't linear, then uses non-linearity as a point of difference between it and Fallout. And even if we were talking about Fallout 3 - why would it's first-person perpective disqualify it from RPG-dom any more than VP's platformer aspects?

Comparing Fallout's series to Valkyrie Profile is just silly, just because they are loosely related.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Does this look like an FPS to you?

No, it looks like a point and click adventure game.

This pseudo-3D isometric view has been typical of cRPGs since Ultima VIII. Featured in Light Crusader too, which is a Japanese game.

Hey, did someone just call Valkyrie Profile an "RPG" with no "j" whatsoever?

Why would you even think of taking something I said out of context?

Did I? You claim Valkyrie Profile to offer you "the ability to shape your own path" unseen in an RPG before. My point is that I don't find VP being that exceptional in this regard even among the jRPGs, let alone cRPGs such as Fallout (and I'm not talking Fallout 3).

It's even nuttier than that. He's just been talking about how VP isn't linear, then uses non-linearity as a point of difference between it and Fallout. And even if we were talking about Fallout 3 - why would it's first-person perpective disqualify it from RPG-dom any more than VP's platformer aspects?

Comparing Fallout's series to Valkyrie Profile is just silly, just because they are loosely related.

Tell us more about Fallout series.

[Elixir]

Did I? You claim Valkyrie Profile to offer you "the ability to shape your own path" unseen in an RPG before. My point is that I don't find VP being that exceptional in this regard even among the jRPGs, let alone cRPGs such as Fallout (and I'm not talking Fallout 3).

I believe you did. I don't believe I should be expected to specify Valkyrie Profile being a Japanese RPG when it's already common knowledge. Your point seems to be an opinion, as is mine in seeing VP1's diversity as something of a true character. Still, it's not the only game out there to consist of it, yet I don't remember any other game where it played such a prominent role (or being praised as much for such).

There are people out there that absolutely hate Valkyrie Profile 1 and loathe everything to ever come from it, and I understand. People don't like change. How many other time-based jRPGs can there be? Why do you think FF13 sold poorly, and SF4 sold so well? (it's because FF13 tried to be different and SF4 is, well, more of the same). Mixing things up a bit can be great - look at G.rev's direction, look at Tri-Ace's Resonance of Fate, and look at games like Katamari Damashii. But no, people would rather stick to the pattern, playing what they've been playing for years but with a new coat of paint--like Dragon Quest--because they know what to expect, and there aren't any surprises.

Ironically (the majority of) people who became attached to the first Valkyrie Profile, didn't like the changes that VP2 presented.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Valkyrie Profile is unique, but I don't believe it's disliked by many because of that. If anything, it's disliked because the platforming is broken (I can only imagine fow anal it must be for people who dislike platforming as such) and because it forces quite a lot of text explanations down people's throats early on (Disgaea does it in more graceful manner), making the impression of utter impenetrability.
Time constraint in practice is virtually non-existent. Similar mechanics in Fallout (before patching), BoFV: Dragon Quarter (the dragon counter) and - last but not least - Persona 3 (commercially rather succesful game) felt more strict.

I don't believe I should be expected to specify Valkyrie Profile being a Japanese RPG when it's already common knowledge. Your point seems to be an opinion, as is mine in seeing VP1's diversity as something of a true character. Still, it's not the only game out there to consist of it, yet I don't remember any other game where it played such a prominent role (or being praised as much for such).

I for one recall Suikoden games being praised rather a lot for that 108 Stars of Destiny thing. It's a benchmark, a poster child of a game about gathering as many characters as you can under your command. The original Shining Force, although extremely linear, did that in a brilliant fashion too.