I'm sick of seeing games with guns and bald space marines!!

[Blade]

Seriously, every time I open up a game developer's magazine or some PC or game magazine, that's all I ever see stateside...it's pathetic.

I see sports games, I see FPSs...I see fatlegged dwarves and ugly with a capital "ugh" monsters.

There's nothing good coming out of America...I mean c'mon where's the visual appeal?

This crap comes out every year and I have no idea why people like it so much. And don't get me started on RPGs. That stuff is always trying to look futuristic or high tech every year. They're constantly trying to trump the next guy with the latest action game with real-time sequences and whatever else....BAH. HUMBUG.

Where's the weird games I see in Japan? Where's the creatively "new" stuff? Where's the cool ideas or the well-drawn characters or the unique things that strive to break the mold that is videogaming and turn it on its ear?

Aside from games that appeal to my sense of Nostalgia and possibly my craving for fighting games or shmups...there's NOTHING.

It's pathetic, it really is.

Why do swords and sorcery games have to have overly buff characters or overly ugly creatures or something over exaggerated? Why can't I have a skinny swordsman with light armor or a simply designed set of characters? Why go overboard with the boobs or anything else for that matter? They look like ken and barbie dolls on steroids nowadays.

The only exception would be Square-Enix or Tri-Ace characters, but even then, that's starting to get stale.

Where is it? Where is the game that I can say jumps out at me from all angles and says "this is new, this is good, this is different, this is fun".

Do I gotta make it myself?

[Pixel_Outlaw]

I was just thinking of this today.

The great thing about Japanese character designs is that even the guys who are supposed to be ugly look good.

The thing I'm sick of seeing is huge buff characters with bland generic faces and no personality. I mean if you are gonna do bulky at least go Fist of the North Star style. Non asian countries seem to go with huge guys with forgettable faces. Women are usually equally bland with a giant set of tits. I was playing Guilty Gear XX Accent Core today and thinking, man this could NEVER happen in any other country and have so much style.

I guess that's it, style is missing.
I guess behind all those shaders, million poly models and multi texture mapping there is a soulless game made for people who don't really care about the looks of the onscreen avatar. I feel that game designers today over texture their high poly characters in a vain attempt to fill in the missing personality.

Realism is overrated in character design.

Can Cloud REALLY lift that buster sword?
Can May from Guilty Gear really lift that ship anchor?
Can Dhalsim really stretch in such odd ways?


The answer in all honesty is no. These character designs expect that the player has imagination and is not bound to reality. Perhaps many modern game players don't have much imagination and cannot escape reality and feel comfortable.

[MX7]

It's just symptomatic of American body ideals in general. The concept of hypermasculinity is nothing new, and can be first seen to be popularised in the early 80's in films such as Rambo and Rocky. These films featured fetishistic and lingering images of masculinity, sweat dripping from taut, hard flesh and a reduced female presence. And, in truth, videogames were very much inspired by this ideal; the 80's are riddled with examples of bland, muscular characters, for example in the Contra series. I think what this is coming down to is a perceived divide in style between east and west, yet it should be understood as an adoption of certain cultural norms. There are many weird Japanese games, yes, but there are also plenty of games with burly, taciturn leads, especially recently.

Sorry, I'm tired. I think the main point I wanted to make was that the hypermasculine protagonist is very much an established concept, and videogames have been doing it for ages, but I agree. With advances in graphics, there has been a worrying tendency towards 'realism' that has unfortunately taken many charming aspects out of modern games.

[neorichieb1971]

Maybe Castlevania Lords of Shadow might be up your street.

[TigerCraneFist]

much like woman-- I dont discrimate when it comes to games. I like/hate equally...

I dont really buy the whole "American game companies suck" thing honestly-- there are just as many shit games coming out of Japan as there are here. I am a concept/character designer as a living and earn that living working on American games, so perhaps I am biased in thinking but there is so much creativity in games here.. both in AAA titles as well as smaller indy releases.

The most obvious and stark example that I can think off, without investing any time or thought into this contention would be Uncharted 2. Pretty much the exact opposite of the gripes you guys listed...

No offense, because everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions... but I dont think there is really much basis for the argument that American game developers suck. Sure there are alot that do suck... but saying it has something to do with what country the game is made in is kind of short sighted.

[Ed Oscuro]

Wtf is wrong with baldness? LOOKING FOR A SUSPICIOUS BALD PERSON is one of the best parts of FPS / 3rd person gaming of the last decade.

I think that the paradigm of games in use through much of the Western game industry, i.e. let's make interactive movies, is poorly executed most of the time, and even then I question whether games need to be treated like interactive movies. The triple-A titles often get it right, at great cost, and even many of those end up being a blur of the same-as-last-quarter. I don't feel there's more crap games coming out of one country than another though.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Even Japanese developers are trying hard to grab the mainstream western audience, which makes me very sad. Shinji Mikami was recently caught saying that he had too much freedom making God Hand, so it didn't sell well and that his next game, Vanquish, would appeal more to the mainstream. All I had to say to that was "blegh," though hopefully that was some off-hand comment and the game will live up to the creative standard of his past works. Damn, when was it that creativity became a liability?

Anyways, I prefer Japanese games, but that's not to say that I don't like western games. I absolutely love God of War and Wipeout, for instance, but I'm not into space marine and war games.

[neorichieb1971]

I think the problem is the aim and shoot philosphy that most Western games take on board. If you put a bearded Dwarf behind a big gun the game won't play any different to bald tall men wearing marine outfits.

[Ex-Cyber]

I think the problem isn't "western games" so much as it is the market being dominated by military-themed first-person shooters, where the emphasis tends to be much more on technology than on anything to do with character or plot. Occasionally you'll see an exception that's actually pretty successful (e.g. Half-Life, Bioshock), but for the most part publishers seem to be content to follow the formula.

Do I gotta make it myself?

Probably. The big western publishers, if anything, are doubling down on the "cash cow franchise" approach to making games.

[Skykid]

Maybe Castlevania Lords of Shadow might be up your street.

Point taken. He looks like the guy from the kebab shop round the corner.

[neorichieb1971]

Online and magazine reviewers should lead by example by knocking the games percentages down by saying the devs are being lazy and copy catting each other all the time. But they seem to lap it up like a bear wanting more honey. History shows that once a template is successful it gets worn out to the point of being sick of it. One day a new template will be born and again the routine will again start at the beginning at which point this thread will be reborn again from the ashes.

The last game that really surprised me was Luigi's mansion. It was the cubes launch title, it felt fresh and funny at times.

The problem lies in that the devs think that they are doing better by simply finding ways of upping resolutions and textures and not enough time at the drawing board stages designing something different (Western philosphy). Thats why my vote goes with Sony, most of their first party games excel in their respective area and often (not all the time) veer off from the mainstream to make something else that becomes mainstream. Nintendo did that with the Wii to a certain extent but only with the help of a new controller. Microsoft excel at what they do and have gotten themselves a nifty % of the market without veering off at all. Microsoft are a bit like a sports car manufacturer, they make a product that is desirable, sells fast and doesn't change the formula. Unfortunately its not my formula. Their 3rd parties stick with that formula because afterall, if MS are going to stick with it, your odd ball title will not sell.. See RARE for an example of failed attempts to do things different.

All the above is simply my opinion on how I see it, I know Dcharlie will chime in and undo everything i have said with examples of how i'm wrong..

As for the Japanese, they want worldwide sales to be high, not just their own territory. Therefore they want to appeal to Westerners, unless your name is Cave.

[ZOM]

Maybe Castlevania Lords of Shadow might be up your street.

Point taken. He looks like the guy from the kebab shop round the corner.

Funny that Lord of Shadow's Gabriel is mentioned in this thread: Apparently, among other things like facial animation, Kojima's involvement in the game consisted of telling Dave Cox how their main character felt not special enough and they redesigned one together.

[neorichieb1971]

Maybe Castlevania Lords of Shadow might be up your street.

Point taken. He looks like the guy from the kebab shop round the corner.

Funny that Lord of Shadow's Gabriel is mentioned in this thread: Apparently, among other things like facial animation, Kojima's involvement in the game consisted of telling Dave Cox how their main character felt not special enough and they redesigned one together.

There is a hint of Solid Snake in that face

[ZOM]

^^He sure does. Apparently, they already spoofed that character with exclamation marks in the Konami gamer's night 2010 trailer.

[worstplayer]

There's a good reason for that. The more "average" the main character is and the less you know about him, the easier it is to identify with him.
That's why there's bald space marines, that's why Doomguy doesn't have a name, that's why JC Denton always wears glasses, and that's why Master Chief never takes off his helmet. They're generic because they're supposed to be you, that's all.

But those Gears of War dwarves on steroids, there's no excuse for that.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Kind of like the silent protagonists in JRPGs but everyone seems to bitch about those. I like silent protagonists, in fact, I prefer them to pussy crybabies that can't shut up, but the problem with FPS heroes nowadays is the genericness. They all seem to be made out of the cookie cutter Master Chef came from or some muscle war guy. What happened to heroes like the native american guy in Turok (not the next-gen one about space marines, lol) or even Duke Nukem?

[Obiwanshinobi]

There was a black playable character in BlowOut. The Shadowgrounds mechanic was a Mario-type protagonist (or pre-Kojima Ayami Richter Belmont, Samus Aran...), i.e. hard-core professional rather than military geek type.
This eighties' military/guerilla tough guy thing in games stems from Contra, Ikari Warriors, Commando, Operation Wolf... Japan seems to have a soft spot for the Hollywood action films too.
In defense of the American designers:
Guild Wars
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance
Bard's Tale
Fahrenheit (to an extent)
- had rather well designed characters verging on "realistic" if you ask me, and it's not like Japanese developers don't make games filled with (unintentionally I believe) malformed midgets (Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song, Suikoden Tierkreis). It doesn't help that Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song's characters are animated shockingly badly for a Square Enix game (to be fair, though, Vagrant Story wasn't much better in this regard).

[neorichieb1971]

Just asking for a rough estimate, but if you had to put a % of games that interest you what would it likely be.

1%
>5%
>10%

I think i'm in the 1% category. Which means when I look at a shop shelf of games 99% of whats on it is bollocks to me. Alot of that has to do with the fact of why this thread exists, amongst other things.

[Taylor]

I'm sick of playing as sexually androgynous streak of piss rock star with spiky hair holding a sword twice his size that he shouldn't be able to lift off the ground. Why can't I play as a warrior with exaggerated proportions that looks like he could actually do some damage with that thing?
Just trollin'

[Skykid]

I'm sick of playing as sexually androgynous streak of piss rock star with spiky hair holding a sword twice his size that he shouldn't be able to lift off the ground. Why can't I play as a warrior with exaggerated proportions that looks like he could actually do some damage with that thing?
Just trollin'

I also 100% agree with this. The Japanese have seriously lost their way in terms of hero figures.

[ZOM]

Kind of like the silent protagonists in JRPGs but everyone seems to bitch about those. I like silent protagonists, in fact, I prefer them to pussy crybabies that can't shut up...

Same. Plays a big role on why I'm so fond of Suikoden and Ys.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I'm sick of playing as sexually androgynous streak of piss rock star with spiky hair holding a sword twice his size that he shouldn't be able to lift off the ground. Why can't I play as a warrior with exaggerated proportions that looks like he could actually do some damage with that thing?
Just trollin'

At your service.

[undamned]

Master Chef

I'd love to play an FPS featuring a master chef.
-ud

[cj iwakura]

I'm sick of playing as sexually androgynous streak of piss rock star with spiky hair holding a sword twice his size that he shouldn't be able to lift off the ground. Why can't I play as a warrior with exaggerated proportions that looks like he could actually do some damage with that thing?
Just trollin'

At your service.

The manliest of protagonists.

Who needs weapons?

[Damocles]

Master Chef

I'd love to play an FPS featuring a master chef.
-ud

PO'ed

[BulletMagnet]

Master Chef

I'd love to play an FPS featuring a master chef.
-ud

PO'ed

I believe the first Matt Hazard game included a spoof along those lines as well.

[lgb]

Can Dhalsim really stretch in such odd ways?

yes

all you need is yogaaaaaa

[Drum]

The only exception would be Square-Enix or Tri-Ace characters, but even then, that's starting to get stale.

How on earth are Square-Enix/Tri-Ace characters the exception to this? Star Ocean IV and Final Fantasy XIII have some of the worst character designs in any game ever.

I basically agree with the rest of your post though.

Recent awesome exception to the bad character design glut: Hakan! Mass Effect has some pretty cool ones. So does No More Heroes. None of them are really my thing, but they stand out as being a cut above the usual drek.

[Drum]

The last game that really surprised me was Luigi's mansion. It was the cubes launch title, it felt fresh and funny at times.

Oh, come on. There have been tons of interesting, creative games since then.

[Khan]

The only genre I personally feel that western devs are doing well in are FPS games everything else they simply dont have the creativity or stylistic talents of the Japanese/Asian developers. Unfortunantly its all about money with companies like EA and Activision milking the audiance for every penny they have us more seasoned gamers yearning for that vision are forced to look elsewhere for our thrills.

Take a look at doujin games for instance, its hard to imagine such a small group of individual devs can come up with such master pieces such as Akatsuki Blitzcampf, Melty Blood, Fortune Summoners, and the Touhou shmups,

Generally speaking using your mouse to point at a specific target and pressing the mouse button taking into consideration ping and estimating where the target will be eventually becomes boring when you become proficient at it, dont get me wrong I still play fps games but I'm dying for a new generation Deus Ex something with a story and creativity that makes you sit up and see things and learn things that really draw the mind in....making you think.

if im honest I've always thought of japanese and Asian developers to be the best at catering for my needs when it comes to a good story there are exceptions in the western market for example I really liked the Story in Starcraft,Max Payne, I also enjoyed the Diablo's and A&D/RPG games such as Baldurs gate/Icewind dale/Fallouts they made the player think and the storylines really appealed to me but I have pumped serious time in my Final fantasy's and MGS's and to me personally I'll always prefer the weird and quirky minds of the Asians.