Silhouette Mirage

LoneSage · Post by **LoneSage** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:01 pm

One of the few games I've ever sold (and the only one I've re-bought), the first time I played SM, I was abit confused and underwhelmed. I constantly died and barely could get past level 3. I was angered!

But last night I played it again and died in a beast's stomach (I went to the beast on the right in level 5). It took me like an hour and 42 minutes to get there, so yeah, I was like "GODDAMMIT" but hey, I had fun. All in all, hell yeah....I'm so happy to feel happy with this game now.

Moogs told me he think a level or boss is missing in the Saturn version, which I'm seriously considering buying from Justin.

Can someone purty please point out the differences between the PS1 and Saturn versions?

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:08 pm

LoneSage wrote: Moogs told me he think a level or boss is missing in the Saturn version, which I'm seriously considering buying from Justin.

Can someone purty please point out the differences between the PS1 and Saturn versions?

I don't see how the Saturn version is "missing" a boss when it was the original version. If you mean that the PSOne version added a boss, then you would be correct. Be warned though, the US and Japanese PSOne versions play differently (the Japanese PSOne version is pretty much the same as the Saturn rev, while a few alterations were made for the US release).

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:19 pm

There are lots of graphic details missing in the PS version. It has more true blending effects, thoe.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:23 pm

From what I've heard the Saturn version is a lot easier than the PS one...in the latter (IIRC) stuff costs more, enemies are tougher, and you have to constantly drain enemies' attack power to refill your own...not to mention that you only get a set number of continues (9, I think) per save file. Not "per game," per FILE. If you go through the game the first time and use 5 continues, you only get 4 the next time through. Use 3 that time and the next game you've only got one. Use that up and you'd better be at 1CC-ville from then on.

I believe the PS version also has some extras not in the Saturn version, though.

llabnip · Post by **llabnip** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:24 pm

I own both Silhouette Mirage games (PS1 and Saturn). Both are pretty much the same graphically and game-play wise and either will do fine for you.

The US PS1 (working designs) release did get some changes (most of these changes are NOT present in the Japanese PS1 release as far as I know... I don't own the import PS1 version and so can't be sure but I think the Japanese PS1 and Saturn revs are pretty close).

Spirit energy is lost when firing your weapon. Also, to build up your spirit energy, you must attack a boss with like-weapons (Silhouette on Silhouette ... Mirage on Mirage) to "drain" them. This makes the game more challenging. Opponents might also be a tad tougher. Most people hated this change... I'm not sure I care since the Saturn version is pretty easy, IMO.

Weapons are much more expensive - you need to do a lot more bashing to get cash. There is a hidden rabbit stall early in the game where you can get a Lv 6 weapon cheaply to counteract this.

You can use the analog controllers on the US port. Both memory slots are available for saving. Some options are locked until all paths in the game are cleared. There is also a preview of Lunar 2 hidden on the disc (hold L1 while turning on the PSX).

teenwolf · Post by **teenwolf** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:11 pm

You can still get the PSX Silhouette Mirage for under $10.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product. ... _id=877451

Cthulhu · Post by **Cthulhu** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:18 am

Yes, the US SM is highly altered and much harder than the Japanese version. I don't have the JP PS1 version, but I've read elsewhere that the JP version is much closer to the original Saturn release than the Working Designs version. I do have the Saturn version, and it is indeed quite a bit easier.

LoneSage · Post by **LoneSage** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:30 am

I own the Working Designs SM for PS1, so I know what WD did there. I'm just wondering if there's anything missing between the PS1 and Saturn versions.

I'm not sure if I care much for an easier SM, if that's the case. The US PS1 version's difficulty is fine with me.

Thanks so far for the replies.

edit: Oh yeah, I remember playing the Saturn demo a few months ago, and I think there were more huge gun enemies in level 2 (you know, where the bullets fire at you and you have to reflect them). I wonder if there's anything like that, or that could have been just a prototype thing that didn't cut it in the Saturn ver.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:04 am

I have played the Saturn and US PSX versions, and I think the US PSX version is better. The absurd weapon prices are annoying, though.

Cthulhu · Post by **Cthulhu** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:18 am

I don't think anything is missing (I'm not aware of any extra bosses or anything), but I prefer the Saturn version. The PSX version isn't undoable, but I like the game at its original difficulty settings more. Call me a wuss if you like.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:34 pm

Cthulhu wrote:The PSX version isn't undoable, but I like the game at its original difficulty settings more.

That reminds me of something else: on the PS version, namely that most of the options, including difficulty (including easy mode, IIRC), aren't available until after you've beaten the game several times...honestly, what's the point of even including the option to make the game a bit easier for yourself if you're required to handle the regular difficulty before you even have access to it? Really stupid layout on Working Designs' part...

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:40 pm

http://www.classicgaming.com/sfkosmo/tr ... rison.html

The PSOne version is missing lots of graphics.

Working Designs destroyed this game.

btw - The Saturn version has a secret code for difficulty setting.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:59 pm

Yeah, WD messes with games too much sometimes. I heard that they made Exile 1 TG-16 too easy and Exile 2 too hard. They made the puzzles in Alundra more frustrating than they needed to be. They also supposedly lowered the boss damage in that game, but it's offset by the fact that the bosses do more damage and still take a ton of hits to defeat.

Moogs · Post by **Moogs** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:01 pm

Valgar wrote:http://www.classicgaming.com/sfkosmo/tr ... rison.html

I have a small problem with the comparison between the import and localised versions of Silhouette Mirage on this site you provided a link to. And it has to do with this part:

"The biblical theme is also carried over tot he weapons, which are named for the seven deadly sins (with vowels tacked on the end); Slotha, Pridee, Gluttonee, Angera, Envya, Covetousu, and Lusti. In Working Designs' version these become Surosa, Priday, Grattoni, Angara, Envia, Cavitas, and Rasti. I don't get the feeling that this was done for censorship purposes. I think they just didn't know what they were doing."

Now, I'm not exactly fluent with the Japanese language, but I can read hiragana and katakana perfectly. Yes, the weapons are named after the seven deadly sins, but all Working Designs did was take the original Japanese pronunciations and localise them into the English alphabet. I'm looking at the instruction manual for the import version of Silhouette Mirage right now... for example, it says "surosa" for the default weapon, which is the Japanese pronunciation for "sloth."

So yeah, Working Designs didn't necessarily screw up, they just didn't take the original Japanese pronunciations and turn them into proper English.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:54 pm

Moogs wrote: Now, I'm not exactly fluent with the Japanese language, but I can read hiragana and katakana perfectly. Yes, the weapons are named after the seven deadly sins, but all Working Designs did was take the original Japanese pronunciations and localise them into the English alphabet. I'm looking at the instruction manual for the import version of Silhouette Mirage right now... for example, it says "surosa" for the default weapon, which is the Japanese pronunciation for "sloth."

So yeah, Working Designs didn't necessarily screw up, they just didn't take the original Japanese pronunciations and turn them into proper English.

Surosa is not the "Japanese pronunciation for sloth", but for slotha, and romanizing it straightly from the kana just shows they failed to realize the true word's origin.

Moogs · Post by **Moogs** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:12 pm

Recap wrote:
Moogs wrote: Now, I'm not exactly fluent with the Japanese language, but I can read hiragana and katakana perfectly. Yes, the weapons are named after the seven deadly sins, but all Working Designs did was take the original Japanese pronunciations and localise them into the English alphabet. I'm looking at the instruction manual for the import version of Silhouette Mirage right now... for example, it says "surosa" for the default weapon, which is the Japanese pronunciation for "sloth."

So yeah, Working Designs didn't necessarily screw up, they just didn't take the original Japanese pronunciations and turn them into proper English.
Surosa is not the "Japanese pronunciation for sloth", but for slotha, and romanizing it straightly from the kana just shows they failed to realize the true word's origin.

I'm not one to defend Working Designs, as I feel they've screwed with far too many games in the localisation process, but I honestly think they just left the original pronunciations in for some ill-conceived poor attempt at maintaning Silhouette Mirage's Japanese origin. It's not that big a deal, I just think it was a conscious decision.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:43 pm

Moogs wrote: I'm not one to defend Working Designs, as I feel they've screwed with far too many games in the localisation process, but I honestly think they just left the original pronunciations in for some ill-conceived poor attempt at maintaning Silhouette Mirage's Japanese origin. It's not that big a deal, I just think it was a conscious decision.

They did not leave the "original pronunciations" at all, they just left some words transliterated straightly from the kana (surosa) and invented the transliteration for some others (rasti - which should have been rasuti, if they would have wanted to keep the straight form), evidencing they had no clue about what they were doing. I hope you get it now, really.

Moogs · Post by **Moogs** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:12 am

Well okay, if we're gonna pick nits, "rasti" should be perfectly fine since the "u" in "rasuti" wouldn't be clearly enunciated.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:35 am

Moogs wrote:Well okay, if we're gonna pick nits, "rasti" should be perfectly fine since the "u" in "rasuti" wouldn't be clearly enunciated.

I'm not picking nits, I'm just trying to tell you, now for a third time, that WD's transliteration was not only completely invented and inconsistent but also pointless since they just didn't see which was the true origin of some of the names. The "u" in rasuti is as "enunciated" as the "u" in surosa, and they kept it in that word. And that was only ONE example.

Try to learn a bit more about the Japanese language and its transliteration methods before replying again as if you knew the subject well. This is getting tedious.

LoneSage · Post by **LoneSage** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:22 pm

Recap wrote: Try to learn a bit more about the Japanese language and its transliteration methods before replying again as if you knew the subject well.

The guy took a few years of Japanese classes and he knows his shit, no need to be so hard on him.

Moogs · Post by **Moogs** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:24 pm

LoneSage wrote:
Recap wrote: Try to learn a bit more about the Japanese language and its transliteration methods before replying again as if you knew the subject well.
The guy took a few years of Japanese classes and he knows his shit, no need to be so hard on him.

Nah, don't worry about it. Like I said initially, I'm far from knowing Japanese fluently, and it's obvious that Recap knows the language well. I never made it clear that pointing out the translation discrepancies between the import and domestic versions of Silhouette Mirage is what really bothers me. I bowed out of this thread cos I didn't appreciate the condescending vibe I was getting.

Ashura · Post by **Ashura** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:15 am

Hey guys-

Kiken came over and showed me this thread.

I'm pretty sure the real reason that they translated the weapon names over the way they did was to make sure the game received an E for Everyone rating.

Season Deadly Sins, 'Shaina' -> 'Sinner', 'Zophar' as 'Zohar'. I guess they didn't change Metatron, but anything that pokes at religion in that way this game does probably would have bumped up the rating to maybe Teen just because I'm sure the ESRB are antsy about bible thumping soccer moms.

Thus, a Teen rating would cut off some potential parents as buyers, and as little as a company WD is, hey, they need sales. So I can see why they didn't romanize the names to something like Gluttony and instead did Grattoni. A good compromise to not technically 'change' the name, but keep their rating down.

Mind you, with as hard as they made it, I don't see how they'd expect kids to play it. But then I guess it's their problem once they buy it. I don't mind WD's changes as much as most people do, mostly because Treasure are known to change around their games anyway when they do ports. Just look at Bangaioh on N64 vs. The Dreamcast. (I personally feel the system for the DC game is a lot better, but..)

Anyway, not sure if my rambling helped at all. However, there you go. ^_^

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:02 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the president of Treasure admit the Working Designs revision was better?

Moogs · Post by **Moogs** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:18 pm

I doubt Masato Maegawa would think such a thing. Rather, I refuse to believe he would.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:35 pm

Haven't played this game in a long time, and unfortunately, in a pinch I sold my copy. I should probably pick up another at some point. I'd definitely steer clear from the US version which is requires you to milk everything; adding the dimension of tedium to an already long game IS NOT an improvement!

Ataru · Post by **Ataru** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:57 pm

Davey wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the president of Treasure admit the Working Designs revision was better?

I've heard the opposite, but it's all hearsay until someone has a specific interview to link to.

I wish my saturn was set up, I'd like to play through this again but I despise the added difficulty of the USA PS1 version.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:17 pm

Well, is it just me or does the main character look a bit sinister?

What's the gameplay like?
Is it anything like the Mega Man Series?
The guy seems to be using a light saber like Zero.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:54 am

ST Dragon wrote:Well, is it just me or does the main character look a bit sinister?

Not really.

What's the gameplay like?
Is it anything like the Mega Man Series?

Fortunately, nope. It's a pretty unique game in its genre which only reminds you other Treasure games.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:37 am

CMoon wrote:I'd definitely steer clear from the US version which is requires you to milk everything; adding the dimension of tedium to an already long game IS NOT an improvement!

I like the added dimension of losing/stealing weapon power as well as the added difficulty, but milking the enemies to get decent weapons does indeed suck. I wish there was a third revision of the game that combined the best elements of the first two.

LoneSage · Post by **LoneSage** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:18 pm

Spoilers.

Well, I beat this game a few nights back...pretty amazing and somewhat thought-provoking ending (kinda like a Techno Soft game

).

Throughout the game it never felt like a Treasure game to me, in that it felt similar to their other games. The characters were memorable (I loved that Samurai Rat, and when he does that mega attack at the end it was like the voice actor was making fun of huge energy blast attacks from DBZ or something), but felt kinda rushed...I was hoping to see the human forms of Bug and Pablo in the ending movie, but alas..

It's a wonderful game, and for people complaining about cash bash, I don't understand why you would. What I do is drain the enemy's spirit power until it's gone, and then I cash bash the hell out of them. By the mid-part of Level 2 I had over a thousand coins, and I never thought it was ruining the pace of action.

Something I'm lost on is the Guardian Angel Geluve. I saw her in the instruction manual, but I don't recall fighting her. Was she the Edo system, or what?

And there were either translation errors or just different storylines for the path you chose, because Megido recalls being powerful in the old world, yet he and Har came from Shyna's sister. Perhaps he and Har were implanted with false memories, I guess.

It's hard for me to think that I used to hate this game, but I'm really enjoying it now, one of my faves on the PS1. The difficulty doesn't bother me, I just stick with Surosa and level that weapon up throughout the game. Of course, this means I don't get to play with any of the other weapons...so perhaps one day I'll play Silhouette Mirage the way it was meant to be, but for now I'm more than happy with the US version.

And of course, I picked Restore Edo. Usually when I pick choices in the game, I do it to get the best ending, but this time I picked what I really would have if I'd been in Shyna's shoes.

I think I'll play this game again tonight and unlock the second path.

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