Nordenfelt - 2D Steampunk Shmup

[hermitC]

Damn, you make really cool models. Now tweak the material and lighting a bit so it doesn't look so plastic, and you have your graphics style.

Thanks! Material and lights are still a matter of experimentation. I'm wondering how the single parts of the game will fit together when the final style gets applied. It's new ground to me.

[hermitC]

Just finished the blog post about my graphic style experiments.

Please tell me what you think about the styles. Is any of them applicable for a vertical shooter?

[Herr Schatten]

Interesting approaches. Is there any way to get rid of the criss-crossing patterns?

I think you should try to change the lighting on the object. I feel that it needs more contrast, when you want to apply those fancy filters. The light areas need to be brighter, the dark ones darker. There should also be less mid-tones. I think this will help to re-add the plasticity that gets lost by applying the filters. As it is, the objects all look a little too smudgy, if you know what I mean.

It might also be worth a try to align the light source with the middle y-axis of the ship, so the rendered result becomes symmetrical.

[hermitC]

Interesting approaches. Is there any way to get rid of the criss-crossing patterns?

I think you should try to change the lighting on the object. I feel that it needs more contrast, when you want to apply those fancy filters. The light areas need to be brighter, the dark ones darker. There should also be less mid-tones. I think this will help to re-add the plasticity that gets lost by applying the filters. As it is, the objects all look a little too smudgy, if you know what I mean.

It might also be worth a try to align the light source with the middle y-axis of the ship, so the rendered result becomes symmetrical.

The following images were the inspirations for the criss-cross pattern. I know they don't use criss-cross hatching. But crossed lines are a common shading technique for drawings:





The flat and smudgy look was intended, maybe it's too much of both. Your opinion about this is important for me to find the right grade of the style their aspects. Thanks so far!

[Ixranin]

What size does that ship appear ingame?

Judging from the window, it looks like it's supposed to be small which might mean losing the crisscross patterns and other gritty effects when you resize it. That's from my guessing its size though; if that's the actual size, then it isn't an issue.

[lordgalvar]

I think the shading a palettes of the second through fifth images look the best for a steampunk atmosphere. I can't wait to see what the animated spites which, for me, is when a 2d game feels complete and polished.

Are you still planning on running at 800 by 600 resolution or another high resolution? My concern is how you will stay consistent with the detailed coloring and shading during ship rotation during animation. It seems that you are basically rotoscoping a 3d model and it may be beneficial to create textures that will keep the coloring consistent when you go to redraw the model as a sprite. You definitely have some modeling skills though.

Speaking of crosshatching, you should channel some Hogarth for the menu screens ("A process of a Rake's Mechanical War. Plates 1-4"). Or not. Just had to mention my favorite artist.

[nem]

But crossed lines are a common shading technique for drawings

This is true. The problem is in your images it just looks like random lines (well, apart from the very last one), and not actual cross hatching. Cross hatching is pretty hard to pull of effectively in low resolution.

For pixel drawings a similar look is made by dithering

[Udderdude]

But crossed lines are a common shading technique for drawings

This is true. The problem is in your images it just looks like random lines (well, apart from the very last one), and not actual cross hatching.

This is because it's clearly a stock photoshop filter.

Just don't add any lens flares and you'll be fine >_>

[hermitC]

Thanks for your comments!

What size does that ship appear ingame?

This model was not intended to be included in the game. Therefore I did not think about its size fitting into the game.

Anyway, it's a good point. I'm going to work this out in the next few days. A video of the running game will show which style is applicable for which resolution.

I think the shading a palettes of the second through fifth images look the best for a steampunk atmosphere. I can't wait to see what the animated spites which, for me, is when a 2d game feels complete and polished.

Are you still planning on running at 800 by 600 resolution or another high resolution? My concern is how you will stay consistent with the detailed coloring and shading during ship rotation during animation. It seems that you are basically rotoscoping a 3d model and it may be beneficial to create textures that will keep the coloring consistent when you go to redraw the model as a sprite. You definitely have some modeling skills though.

Speaking of crosshatching, you should channel some Hogarth for the menu screens ("A process of a Rake's Mechanical War. Plates 1-4"). Or not. Just had to mention my favorite artist.

The low resolution of 800x600 was chosen due to the pixel art sprites and their scaling/rotation incompatibility. Prerendering 3D models turned out to be the faster and more flexible method for asset creation. Therefore I can aim for resolutions of 1024x768 or higher.

Regarding Hogarth: Do you know some online images I can investigate? Could not find any.

[lordgalvar]

http://www.avenuedstereo.com/modern/hogarth_cruelty.jpg

Hogarth did satiric etchings off of paintings after the Puritan Interregnum in England. I have a book of all his plates. I was kidding though.

By the way, I draw everything with a nib pens, crow quills, and India Ink then scan and redraw in GIMP if needed. If I am drafting, I use technical pens. Knowing that, it is pretty hard to pull off cross hatch patterns in animation without giving it that 1970s "how many licks to get to the center of a tootsie-pop cartoon commercial" look. As nem said, dithering is a much better solution; I also concur with Udderdude and suggested making textures that would help avoid the plugin-look by simplifying the spiting process. The color palette will show your game's character, atmosphere, and style more than cross hatching will.

I still think that 800 x 600 is really high and could prove to be a lot of work. Always remember that games (and drawings for that matter) only need to give an impression of the represented idea not an actual perfect representation or analog. The human brain will always fill out the missing detail if everything is done well.

[hermitC]

http://www.avenuedstereo.com/modern/hogarth_cruelty.jpg

Hogarth did satiric etchings off of paintings after the Puritan Interregnum in England. I have a book of all his plates. I was kidding though.

By the way, I draw everything with a nib pens, crow quills, and India Ink then scan and redraw in GIMP if needed. If I am drafting, I use technical pens. Knowing that, it is pretty hard to pull off cross hatch patterns in animation without giving it that 1970s "how many licks to get to the center of a tootsie-pop cartoon commercial" look. As nem said, dithering is a much better solution; I also concur with Udderdude and suggested making textures that would help avoid the plugin-look by simplifying the spiting process. The color palette will show your game's character, atmosphere, and style more than cross hatching will.

I still think that 800 x 600 is really high and could prove to be a lot of work. Always remember that games (and drawings for that matter) only need to give an impression of the represented idea not an actual perfect representation or analog. The human brain will always fill out the missing detail if everything is done well.

Thanks for the link. Really cruel!

I won't go for exact replication of human drawings. I do neither have the knowledge nor the time. My intention matches with your last sentence that the human brain "converts" visuals to patterns/styles it knows. The upcoming demo version will provide the platform for further style experiments, especially including animation and integration of different objects within a play field.

[hermitC]

I have added an arcade mode in the game. This step had two reasons:

• most people are used to the arcade play style
  the arcade mode is pure game play - best suited for play testing

I wrote a blog post about this here.

For creating the first sprite for the demo I reused the model of the ship on the Nordenfelt website:



I changed the lights and textures to fit the birds view and rendered it as an ingame sprite:



I think this sprite does not work as the player's ship due to its odd shape. The body is very slim while the wings are rather large. Most shmups use compact and colorful ships which have a better visibility and a slicker shape for steering successfully through the bullet hails.

What do you think? Do you know good examples of ship shapes?

[hermitC]

First enemy sprite for the demo:

Draft:



3D model:



Sprites, with outlines and without:

[worstplayer]

I think this sprite does not work as the player's ship due to its odd shape. The body is very slim while the wings are rather large. Most shmups use compact and colorful ships which have a better visibility and a slicker shape for steering successfully through the bullet hails.

Yes, easily visible is the key, so you need bright primary colors and shape you can't confuse with anything else in the game.
It's also nice if player ship has some part that shows where the hitbox is (like rotor cap on DDP type B, gray spike on type A, etc.)

[hermitC]

Yes, easily visible is the key, so you need bright primary colors and shape you can't confuse with anything else in the game.
It's also nice if player ship has some part that shows where the hitbox is (like rotor cap on DDP type B, gray spike on type A, etc.)

Thanks for the Do Don Pachi example. I will test hitbox-driven design for further player ship sprites.

I'm wondering about the hitboxes of enemy sprites? Do they have the same size as their sprites?

[worstplayer]

I'm wondering about the hitboxes of enemy sprites? Do they have the same size as their sprites?

Usually yes, but there are exceptions. They may be smaller on bosses (shoot the core!), or even slightly bigger on very small things (like enemy missiles).

[Danbo]

I'm wondering about the hitboxes of enemy sprites? Do they have the same size as their sprites?

If it's a bullet hell shooter, keep them nice and big even if it doesn't quite make sense. Shooting enemies is a fairly abstract part of the game... otherwise, do what you like. But know that enemy bullet hitboxes and the player's hitbox are your chief concern.

That player ship looks really thin and spindly, more like popcorn/cannon fodder than a player ship.

[hermitC]

I'm not sure about the sub genre yet. Can anybody give me a list of shmup types? I divide them in "bullet hell" and "others". What types are in "others"?

[BPzeBanshee]

My knowledge aint brilliant on shmup memes but I know there's definitely "manic" shooters like Raiden Fighters. The closest game I can think of to what it looks like you're trying to make though would be Tyrian, I have no idea what to call that one. Personally I usually go either "bullet-hell", "manic" and/or *whateverdirectiongameisscrolling*.

[hermitC]

Turrets:

Draft:


Sprite:


Ingame:


You can find more details here.

[Herr Schatten]

I do think that the sprites with the edges included look a whole lot better than the other versions. Without the outlines they just look blurry.

[Udderdude]

That turret's barrel just looks way too long imo ..

[hermitC]

Most people prefer the edged versions. I agree that this style improves the sprite visibility. It makes the visuals more abstract to what is very important for me. Abstract styles allow much more artistic freedom and can reduce the asset creation costs compared to photo-realistic stuff. The style is still in development.

The barrel length may become a problem when the turret rotates. I'm going to check this out in the demo when there are more ground sprites in action.

[BPzeBanshee]

Graphically it looks impressive either way, though the edged sprites are more easily defined.
As for your mention of bullet sprites on the blog, you intend on having detailed bullets on there as well like say, Battle Garegga and its missiles?

[hermitC]

Graphically it looks impressive either way, though the edged sprites are more easily defined.
As for your mention of bullet sprites on the blog, you intend on having detailed bullets on there as well like say, Battle Garegga and its missiles?

Thanks a lot!

Battle Garegga is definitely an influence. But it uses shot sprites which IMHO are out of proportion - they are too large. I'm currently testing shot types like missles, bullets and flares as well as different shot sizes which are in proportion to vehicle sprites and gun barrels. Flares are top because they have a good visibility, can be scaled to arbitrary sizes without losing authenticity and may be colored in any way due to their abstract nature. Now I understand why so many shmups use this shot type.

Yesterday I did some play testing with the new flare shots including trailing smoke. This simple change brought the game to life. Now it has a soul!

There is some work left for the first demo. I'm looking forward to hear your opinions about it when it will be "released" in the near future. Stay tuned!

[BPzeBanshee]

In my ignorance I had never heard of the term "Steampunk" until I saw this thread and realised what it meant.
There really needs to be more Steampunk material around and I'm certainly looking forward to trying your game as you make progress. Keep it up dude!

[hermitC]

After some days offline (due to 0MB download volume left) I'm back with some thoughts about shot design. Inspection of many reference titles showed me that good designed shots are very important for the shmup genre. I've listed some aspects of design in this blog post.

The first shot type within the game:


I'm looking forward for your comments. Please tell me if you know outstanding shot types, especially suiting the Steampunk style (speak rockets, bullets, grenades, etc.).

[worstplayer]

Nice. I like the smoke around the bullet, it should make it easily visible even on backgrounds of the same color (which shouldn't happen, but it's good to have it "just in case").

[emphatic]

I'm really glad I checked out this topic, this is looking super-cool. I too like the smoking bullets but I do hope that you'll put the bullet hitbox at the very tip of them only?

[hermitC]

Nice. I like the smoke around the bullet, it should make it easily visible even on backgrounds of the same color (which shouldn't happen, but it's good to have it "just in case").

Was not intended but is a really good point. Did not consider this yet. Thanks.

I'm really glad I checked out this topic, this is looking super-cool. I too like the smoking bullets but I do hope that you'll put the bullet hitbox at the very tip of them only?

Thanks for the compliment!
The hitbox is a single point near the tip of the flares, as you already mentioned.