PS2 Contra

[astrix]

I was wondering if one had to pick between Neo Contra and Contra: Shattered Soldier, which should it be and why?

[Kaspal]

if you like the true contra feeling and challenge, Shattered soldier is the way to go... its just BALLS hard...

[GaijinPunch]

[If they had made me a mod, this thread would be moved already]

[astrix]

Is the Contra series no longer considered a SHMUP?

[szycag]

Shmups.com and Shmups forum have always set apart scrolling "space" shmups and run and guns like Contra. Stuff like Starfox and Panzer Dragoon is off-topic too. But you'll still find a lot of people willing to talk about those games in off-topic so it's not a big deal.

[Skykid]

SHATTERED SOLDIER all the way! It's great.

[Kaiser]

SHATTERED SOLDIER all the way! It's great.

No shit skykid, it has giant & epic bosses. Heavy metal music you can bang to (99% of time, there are some exceptions), far improved contra formula removing powerups and bringing more tactics than luck into the game. Great difficulty at which Contra 3 in hard mode can suck a d... nevermind you get it. Konami, stop rehashing classic formula and bring SS's formula back... in sidescroller this time not a vertical shooter like that failure Neo Contra!

[God]

The big difference is Neo's not a side-scroller. You know the overhead levels in SuperC? Kinda like that more or less. Also, there's some intentional cheesiness mixed in.

Neo's a nice little action game, but not "real" Contra.

[astrix]

I guess I'll pick up Shattered. I just beat Gunstar Heroes again and was looking for something similar.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Difficulty-wise, Shattered Soldier on Easy is similar to Gunstar Heroes on Normal (only not quite as cheap and frustrating as Gunstar Heroes), except you won't unlock the epilogue mission on Easy. Neo Contra is more akin to The Red Star.

The big difference is Neo's not a side-scroller. You know the overhead levels in SuperC? Kinda like that more or less. Also, there's some intentional cheesiness mixed in.

Neo's a nice little action game, but not "real" Contra.

To be fair, Shattered Soldier is also a game carved in cheese if I ever played one. It delivers with aplomb what the likes of Gears and Killzones keep emulating so clumsily. Shattered Soldier is the REAL eighties' cheese dressed in the last gen visuals, unlike those sad "spiritual successors".

[Klatrymadon]

Having S-ranked both games a number of times, I'd probably more readily recommend Neo Contra to new players over Shattered Soldier, especially if they have friends to play with. SS is a fantastic game, ostensibly the more rewarding one, and it certainly offers the 'truer' Contra experience (although it still doesn't have much in the way of serious platforming, being much more in line with Hard Corps' boss-rush structure), but due to how rigidly memorisation-based it is, it's a game that becomes less compelling as you get better at it. By the time you're ready to make an earnest attempt at an S-rank run, you kind of can't be arsed.

Neo Contra, on the other hand, is always a good laugh, and I honestly think it's one of the most under-appreciated games of its generation - certainly one of the most overlooked two-player experiences. It's not so easy that you won't have to put in some practice to earn your full S-rank clear, but it's also not so difficult that you can't get a room-mate involved and get them fighting fit over the course of a few sessions, and it doesn't get really 'old' in the way that SS does, even though it is a bit more shallow.

You should be able to pick up both of them for about a tenner each, though, unless I'm hugely mistaken. If you can, go for it!

[Jon]

^^^Couldn't have said it better myself, even if I haven't come close to S ranking either game.

[PainAmplifier]

I've got Contra:Shattered Soldier, and it's a great looking and sounding game. That said it has taken a long winding road away from the game it started out as. Some of which applies to the gameplay, and some that shifts the experience in attempts to 'expand on the gameplay'.


1)It's a demanding game in terms of controller dexterity.

In the first Contra you got weapons from pods, and ran, jumped and shot with 2 buttons and the pad/stick. Some good reflexes were useful, but you didn't need to be a twitch god to learn patterns and eventually get through the game. In Contra:SS, your going to need some pretty good controller-fu to survive the game. Weapons no longer come from power up pods, but rather you start with them all and switch through them. Each weapon has a default effect and a 'charge shot' for a second more powerful effect. For moving & Shooting, you can 'lock' either/or. That is you can lock your shooting direction with one button, or lock your movement with a second button and shoot as if you were a stationary turret. Your going to need to use all of these controls at some point in the game as well.

Maybe it's just me, but I think this is the least 'fun' part of the game...having to learn all of the controls in order to play the game. I can't just pick up the game and play, it requires I spend time (re)learning the controls if I want to get anywhere. Not fun if you are like me and like to switch to other games fairly often.


2)It's long.

No save feature, although you can pick the level you start on. So if you want to beat the game you have to dedicate a pretty huge chunk of time to run through all of it at one time. Roughly a full hour if the playtimes I did a quick check of are average. I love long games, but being unable to break my time playing into managable chunks can be a pain/problem sometimes.

3)The game is laregly a long string of bosses, mini-bosses and environmental navigation.

Good in that the game isn't just a string of platforming seperated by a miniboss in the middle and a boss at the end. Bad in that there really isn't much non-memorizing platform run-N-gun left. In fact many of the boss fights take up more of the levels than the fight to get to them. The majority of which have multiple stages/forms.

The graphics and sound are awesome, but the gameplay isn't quite the slam dunk I wish it was. That said, I'll still put this one over Neo-Contra since the game is all on the side-scrolling plane, and none of that over the shoulder 'adventure-scroller' style levels. (AKA Ikari Warriors/Heavy Barrel, etc.)

[Skykid]

Shattered Soldier is the REAL eighties' cheese dressed in the last gen visuals, unlike those sad "spiritual successors".

It's true, it is. This is what I keep telling people. That's why it's so great. It's just bloody rock hard if you want to finish it properly - 1 life!

[Ghegs]

Luckily it's easy and cheap to pick up both Shattered Soldier and Neo nowadays, so there's no reason not to do that.

Still, as someone who has S-ranked Shattered Soldier (utterly shameless plug!) I feel compelled to recommend that one. It's not quite as long as PainAmplifier makes it to be (my playthrough lasts a hair over 40 minutes) but considering you really need to focus at all times it can definitely wear you out. Assuming your aim is to S-rank the game, that is. I'd also say the gameplay's reconstructions of "demanding game in terms of controller dexterity" and "a long string of bosses, mini-bosses and environmental navigation" are only a good thing. I also love boss fights personally so it was more fun for me that way, too.

Yes, it's a fairly tough game. If you decide to go for the S-rank, you will get frustated. But when you finally do hit that perfect run...it feels pretty damn sweet.

This thread reminded me I still need to S-rank Neo.

[Skykid]

Still, as someone who has S-ranked Shattered Soldier (utterly shameless plug!) I .

Legendary work Ghegs! I did get frustrated trying to get the S-rank in the end. Getting right the way through and losing a life is argh inducing. If I remember correctly you can restart the level if you die a limited number of times to try to get a perfect clear?

[BIL]

Yep, you can retry a level at the cost of a credit. There's no reward for doing it without restarts besides nerdy satisfaction. (my heart was pounding on the TLB, the one time I cleared it sans restarts...)

edit: or maybe cost of a life, actually... can't quite recall. It's not free though.

[Ghegs]

If I remember correctly you can restart the level if you die a limited number of times to try to get a perfect clear?

You can, yeah. That's how I got my first S-rank clear, actually. The game itself doesn't note any difference between doing it with or without retries, but I wasn't happy until I got the real no-miss.

EDIT: BIL beat me to it. S-rank clearer high-five!

[JoshF]

Neo is a great game but not as great as it could have been. The slightly forward tilt of the perspective can lead to some unnecessary deaths even after you think you've memorized a stage. The controls seem to be complicated for no reason. Maybe I've been played too many arcade games but I hate the feeling of having to use 4 fingers for fucking shoulder buttons. I want to use Jaguar's sword without having to cycle through inventory.

[Klatrymadon]

The slightly forward tilt of the perspective can lead to some unnecessary deaths even after you think you've memorized a stage.

Hehe, yeah. This was particularly true for me, as I never really got into the habit of using that bullet-negating spin move.

[BIL]

S-rank clearer high-five!

Indeed. *S-Rank clear jingle* S-Ranking Neo should be a cinch for you after SS. You can actually die on a stage and still get the top rank, iirc.

I like Neo a lot, but it only just starts getting intense very late into the game. The later bosses have some great devious patterns, but they should've been the midpoint. Neo's level designs and carnage plus Gunspike/Cannon Spike's intensity would've been something.

edit: greatest moment in Contra history (minor Shattered Soldier spoiler)

[Klatrymadon]

^ That's one of my favourite fights to shave seconds off. With practice, you can end quite a few of the phases before he really gets to do anything.

Edit: I've just remembered this boss is called Super Power Robot Yokozuna Jr. I wonder if the one in Hard Corps is "Sr.".

[Kaiser]

^ That's one of my favourite fights to shave seconds off. With practice, you can end quite a few of the phases before he really gets to do anything.

Edit: I've just remembered this boss is called Super Power Robot Yokozuna Jr. I wonder if the one in Hard Corps is "Sr.".

Lol, yes the original is in hard corps as the train stage endboss. Good times. And he even picks up the train same way!

[Skykid]

edit: greatest moment in Contra history (minor Shattered Soldier spoiler)

Why aren't all games this good?

[BIL]

^ That's one of my favourite fights to shave seconds off. With practice, you can end quite a few of the phases before he really gets to do anything.

Yeah, it's all about the charged flamethrower (well, usually). Mission 4's huge mech is another good opportunity to shear a boss time in half. With enough aggression I can usually kill him in one lap. Demolishing bosses in the shortest time possible kept SS interesting for me after the game was well and truly imprinted on my memory.

[Obiwanshinobi]

If anything, Neo Contra is better than Konami's own Project Overkill. The controls are better this time around and we could use more non-abstract multi-directional shooters with analogue controls. What I dislike about them, though, is that bullet dodging doesn't feel terribly precise with an analogue stick (at least if you are used to digital controls in 2D shooters). This is my major complaint about The Red Star too. In Neo Contra you can use a D-pad, but analogue stick egdes it when it comes to rotating your character. As the bullet patterns aren't overwhelming, I end up using a stick, but it still doesn't feel quite right.
Still, if joyppad sports any advantage over mouse & keyboard in the likes of Diablo, it would be more intuitive projectile dodging. By the way, in Grid Runner Revolution demo I enjoyed the "point'n'click" mode more than the default mode.

[cj iwakura]

Shattered Soldier just isn't very fun.

Contra 4, now that's the stuff.

[lgb]

Shmups.com and Shmups forum have always set apart scrolling "space" shmups and run and guns like Contra. Stuff like Starfox and Panzer Dragoon is off-topic too. But you'll still find a lot of people willing to talk about those games in off-topic so it's not a big deal.

...even though Neo Contra is a "shmup" like Shock Troopers and Kikikaikai and Cannon Spike, and those types of games are essentially vertical run 'n guns. Also rail shooters became "shmups" recently.

[JoshF]

SHMUMP is such an important term it must remain pure.