Espgaluda II

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apple arcade
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by apple arcade »

roker wrote:
apple arcade wrote:really loving this game

i totally suck at it though!

i've made it to stage 4 once!

i really like the bullet patterns in this game, the setting, the music. only thing i dislike is the stupid stage 4 boss, just doesn't fit in. I know I had a train boss on stage 4 too but this one is just bland and annoying. they should have kept him in his stage 2 form.

i don't this game is as hard as people make it out to be, but definitely challenging. boss battles last a bit too long.

playing Asagi at the moment.

EDIT: is there some glitch that prevents the game from saving your high score? even when i save replays. the high score doesn't change on the in game display.
If you use the restart option in the pause menu, it'll count as a continue and it won't save your score.
yea i know that, but i don't think that's the issue.

to be honest i didn't understand the answer completely in the post above yours which sounds like it is the issue. any chance some one could clarify?
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Exarion
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by Exarion »

There are two seperate scoreboards for this game: today's high scores and all time high scores. Todays high scores are used for the number in the in-game display, and are reset every time the machine powers down, which means every time you leave that mode. All time high scores are only visible after submitting a score, or by waiting for the game to go into attract mode.
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apple arcade
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by apple arcade »

what is attract mode?
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xris
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by xris »

Attract mode is when the game cycles, and shows gameplay clips to "attract" people to put in money.
Wow, talk about risk vs reward. You can make BL so hard on yourself. At least I get the scoring now.
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by drunkninja24 »

Exarion wrote:There are two seperate scoreboards for this game: today's high scores and all time high scores. Todays high scores are used for the number in the in-game display, and are reset every time the machine powers down, which means every time you leave that mode. All time high scores are only visible after submitting a score, or by waiting for the game to go into attract mode.
Yeah, that bugs the hell outta me personally.
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Special World
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by Special World »

God, if Cave releases ESP.ra.de. on live instead of Pink Sweets or Muchi Muchi Pork I will cry.

I've been watching vids and these games look so motherfucking fun. It'd be nice to have one of the crazy rank style Yagawa (?) games for 360 as well, since we already have the amazing amazing lineup of Futari, Galuda 2, DS, DOJ, and Guwange. Like, I seriously need one of these adorable rank monsters. Hopefully they'll go the well-rounded route instead of the "what the fans voted for" route. Because I'd be really sad if I never got to play one or both of these games.

This post is out of the blue and perhaps retarded as I don't know much about Pink Sweets or Muchi, but whatever. They look grand.
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Special World
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by Special World »

Okay, hold up. I'm watching a vid of somebody playing ESP2, and they're using K-Z to spawn more bullets and then they're not canceling them. Is that actually the best way to go about things? Spawning more bullets and then not mopping them up so you can spawn as many as possible with the gems you have? Maybe I'm just not seeing what's going on as the vid is very grainy...

ED: n/m, I'm futarded.
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GaijinPunch
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by GaijinPunch »

Nobody will argue w/ that. You might want to talk about what mode you're watching.
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Special World
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by Special World »

Yeah I had been under the impression that you only got points for K-Z bullets once you cancelled them. No idea how that worked its way into my head. 360 mode.
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by BulletMagnet »

Did anyone already mention that there's going to be an iPhone version of this thing?
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by Jockel »

I dunno, at cave-stg they sure did. :mrgreen:
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roker
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by roker »

BulletMagnet wrote:Did anyone already mention that there's going to be an iPhone version of this thing?
Serious Question Alert:

Is there a mobile phone shmup worth mentioning?
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Exarion
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by Exarion »

Okay, can someone please help me figure what's going on in Omake! mode? So far, I found that full gems+full gold = bullets cancel into gold. Now, if you go into kakusei with full gems and full gold, the ring around your character stays, and after using about 250 gems so chime is heard and something happens that can be worth a lot of points. Can anyone figure out exactly what this is? it's obviously very important to scoring.
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by PsikyoPshumpPshooterP »

Jockel wrote:I dunno, at cave-stg they sure did. :mrgreen:

wow..another one of those..
The cave whore count in this thread is unbelievable!!!
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Exarion
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by Exarion »

Omake mode is even more confusing now. I just completed a run in which I somehow managed to activate an extra special kakusei mode in which my gems only went down when I killed an enemy. No clue how I did this. I also have no video recording equipment, so I can't get it on youtube.
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supergrafx77
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by supergrafx77 »

evil_ash_xero wrote:
Skykid wrote:
cadpipe wrote:Come on , espgaluda II for me is much better than futari.And for the record ive owned them both on pcb too.
Better yes, much better I'm not sure - they're both pretty ace (Futari 1.5 > Futari BL)

I feel the same way. I like ESP II better than Futari, but Futari is pretty awesome also. Galuda II is just a bit more complex and over the top, so I like that.
Espgaluda II is the best game I have ever played for the fucking record! Mushihimesama is awesome but it just sit there collecting dust for some time now... I'm so sorry but I love Espgaluda more! I'm so glad others like Espgaluda II more as well. I thought I was starting to go crazy how much I love Espgaluda....
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dog$
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by dog$ »

I was wondering if some of you could take the time to discuss and elucidate how Esp2 is really supposed to be played.

Yes, I know I need to practice.

Yes, I know there is the strategy faq thread which I read every other day to see what else I can learn which I don't already think I understand.

I refuse to watch superplay videos because as far as I'm concerned, that only makes my play of the game an attempt to recreate what someone else already did. I don't get any enjoyment out of playing a game that way.

I'm not looking for someone to recreate a superplay in text; I'm not looking for someone to write out a frame-by-frame list of where to go and when to do things.

Here's what I'm getting at -

For 360 mode, my current high score for Stage 1 is like 4M or something. Meanwhile I'm reading that people can get at least 30/40M and some can get beyond 60M in the same stage. If I can't get 1/15th the score of some of the best players, then clearly there's some major misunderstanding I have of the game.

So, last I checked; you need gems to activate Kakusei to get gold and you need both of them to use Zetshikai for the major point collection. So for Stage 1, I basically do the following:

1) Kakusei Over until first big gun shows up, by that point usually the level has built up.
2) Build up gems until miniboss shows up, use Kakusei to finish miniboss to get some gold rounded up.
3) Use Zetshikai once the last big gun shows up and rack up the points while all those bullets are on the field and the last wave of easy enemies come into play.
4) Beat boss, end Stage 1.

Clearly that's not all I'm supposed to be doing so what's the big thing I'm missing here.
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by EOJ »

Just get over your superplay bias and watch some vids. It's silly not to, since that's how things work in Japanese arcades in the first place - people go, watch others play, learn strats, apply it to their own runs, etc. Same thing with fighting games. This stuff is all sport, after all. Would you rather try and learn Karate all by yourself (or via tips on a forum), or take classes from a pro? Same idea.

You don't have to watch the vids and then set out to copy them move by move. You can just watch them to learn basic stuff, to see general patterns. Watch a good vid of stage 1 off Xbox Live and you'll get your answer and no poor schmuck here will have to waste their time trying to explain it to you in prose.

The Xbox live vids are great, because you can look at the top scoring replays, or the lower scoring ones, and download the ones appropriate to your skill level. There is a huge diversity of play in the vids.
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dog$
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by dog$ »

EOJ wrote:Watch a good vid of stage 1 off Xbox Live and you'll get your answer and no poor schmuck here will have to waste their time trying to explain it to you in prose.
It wouldn't be a waste of time to me.

Still, I suppose this is the reaction I should have expected after saying I won't watch videos.

I apologize for my indiscretion. My previous post may be ignored. Thanks.
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by EOJ »

How is it fundamentally different if someone writes out what you need to do in stage 1 to score well (and to score 30+ mil will require quite a detailed writeup), and you follow their steps, or if you watch a video that shows the same thing?
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by PurpBullets »

shin seseri is wild
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dog$
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by dog$ »

EOJ wrote:How is it fundamentally different if someone writes out what you need to do in stage 1 to score well (and to score 30+ mil will require quite a detailed writeup), and you follow their steps, or if you watch a video that shows the same thing?
Well, like I said, I don't want a play-by-play transcript. I don't assume anyone wants to write that, particularly just by my asking for it.

It's just that, to me, if the scores I am managing are a mere fraction of what is possible, then there is some big glaring concept which I'm missing. In this case, it feels like I'm missing something which should otherwise be painfully obvious like equipping the best weapon in an RPG or how to link attacks in a fighter.

In that regard, re: videos -

I have seen one YT video of someone getting 300M+ on Stage 1 of BL, which I found after I told other people of the game and wanted to show an example of what I was talking about. This video shows the player splitting bullets and canceling the entire screen several times and so on. That's great. I've watched it like 10 times and I still have relatively no idea what's going on. Any time I play BL there is nothing that I do while playing which strikes me as the wrong way to do it - all I know is that what I'm doing is definitely the wrong way to do it. Should I watch a video of a less skilled player? Why would that help me? If I'm trying to at least equal, much less surpass, the #1 play it's just a waste of time to watch the #2-#last plays. Can't I at least just ask for some discussion to explain what's going on, instead of re-watching the video until something magically clicks in my brain?

Clover TAC probably doesn't watch superplays, does he? I wouldn't think he does. Why would he need to? He just knows what to do based off of years of experience and knowing how to play these games repeatedly to independently figure out what works and what doesn't. If the #1 player can figure out how to be the #1 player without watching videos, why am I incapable of doing the same thing? I mean besides the fact that I'm [insert self-deprecation here].

All I was looking for was some discussion about how to approach the game. Based off of my list I would think someone would be able look at that and say something simple like "well, the main thing you're not doing is [X] so figure that out first" and give general guidance.

Talking about how the game is played (as opposed to merely comparing where everyone's progress is halted at) would interest me and I would consider it to be beneficial. That's all I was asking for.
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by angrycoder »

You have a really flawed idea of how learning works.

Do you think chess masters don't spend hours studying other masters' games? Do you think people who program haven't spent a significant amount of time looking at other people's code?

You don't learn in a vacuum, you don't reinvent the wheel every time, you take what's there, you study, you apply it to your own methods and make it your own.
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dog$
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by dog$ »

A) I want to play chess at least as good as someone like Kasparov.
B) I can view a movie of Kasparov losing to Big Blue.
C) I want to discuss the possible basis behind Kasparov's decisions to learn how to avoid making the mistakes which he did when he lost.

Telling me to just watch movies is telling me that the only thing I can possibly do to achieve (A) is to only do (B) and never do (C).

I don't understand why I can't do (C).
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by EOJ »

dog$ wrote: Telling me to just watch movies is telling me that the only thing I can possibly do to achieve (A) is to only do (B) and never do (C).

I don't understand why I can't do (C).
You already stated you looked at the strategy guide here, so that's why I sent you to the movies. Of course you can use both, but you're refusing to use one of these key elements. Everything you need to know to develop your own strats is already in the strategy guide on these forums. You were asking for help beyond that.

If you have questions about specific aspects in the guide, it would best to pose those in the strategy thread.

And yes, download LOTS of vids from Xbox live. Good scores, average scores, even poor scores. It's really helpful to see the wide range of patterns players have developed for a stage, and once in awhile even a low scoring run will show a unique, helpful technique on a boss or something.

PS- Clover TAC and the other high scorers watch other top scorers play as well. They do develop most of their own strats, but they feed off each other. If you're still only getting 4mil on stage 1, then no offense, but you're no Clover TAC and odds are you never will be. Learn to play within your own limits, don't try and replicate a WR score right off the bat. You have to build your scores up over time.
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by angrycoder »

dog$ wrote:A) I want to play chess at least as good as someone like Kasparov.
B) I can view a movie of Kasparov losing to Big Blue.
C) I want to discuss the possible basis behind Kasparov's decisions to learn how to avoid making the mistakes which he did when he lost.

Telling me to just watch movies is telling me that the only thing I can possibly do to achieve (A) is to only do (B) and never do (C).

I don't understand why I can't do (C).
thats not how it works. You don't understand the difference between watching and studying.

you would get a move list of Kasparov playing deep blue. You would work through each move, making your own guesses, comparing them with his, trying to understand his thought process. Not mimicking his moves but understanding them.
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by Schrodinger's cat »

dog$ wrote:If I'm trying to at least equal, much less surpass, the #1 play it's just a waste of time to watch the #2-#last plays.
I don't think it's a waste of time to learn the replays that aren't #1. In Espgaluda II and other games as well there is usually an insane payoff for taking huge risks and the #1 guy usually has some unconventional strategies that people don't take the time to try to master due to the risks involved. The lesser replays have usually have safer but not as rewarding strategies that are easier to learn, and great to know in case things don't go according to plan. It's always nice to know multiple ways around a stage, otherwise you'd probably be resetting the game after every mistake and get sick of playing fast.

I used to be in the "figure it out yourself" camp until I left my DDP playing bubble about a year ago and watched some top replays. I mentioned this in some other thread a while ago, but it's quite frustrating when you have a sub-optimal scoring path ingrained into your brain and have to relearn the whole game from scratch. What I do now is that I watch a few of the top replays and loosely base my run on those until I can at least be somewhat consistent in my execution. It saves a whole lot more time than learning in a vacuum, and I get better way faster.

dog$ wrote:Can't I at least just ask for some discussion to explain what's going on, instead of re-watching the video until something magically clicks in my brain?
Possibilities for that include that you are probably playing too safe and that your timing is off. There are parts of the game where slight mistakes involving timing (i.e. not having enough gems/gold to stay in KZ mode for 2 extra seconds) have a huge impact on your score, usually in the tens of millions. It's probably a laundry list of other things like that which add up to make the huge exponential difference in score between you and #1. Review the scoring FAQ again and keep playing to gain a better sense of what it is you're NOT doing. There's not really a shortcut way of learning the game, just play more.
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roker
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by roker »

dog$ wrote:elucidate
hahaha. I needed a laugh this morning. You remind me of a younger version of myself. I used to try and throw in a few big words here and there to seem "smart" but instead I came off as being pompous and arrogant. If you don't know, just go to the score attack menu, leaderboards, then press (A) to download a replay. The option presents itself with the words, "Game Clip". No One here mentioned it and I was unaware of this when I first got the game.

I'm taking a small break from shmupping for the next couple of weeks. I'd like to say it's to get my priorities straight, or to attend to things more important in my life (finding a good job, spending time with loved ones, etc.), but it's because my 360 broke on me. I haven't even had for a month yet. So I have to ship to Amazon, then wait for them to ship one back to me.

This was the 2nd one to die on me and even though I promised myself that I'd never buy another, Cave lured me in with some awesome games.
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Rob
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by Rob »

roker wrote:You remind me of a younger version of myself.

I came off as being pompous and arrogant.
Add clueless.
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roker
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Re: Espgaluda II

Post by roker »

Rob wrote:
roker wrote:You remind me of a younger version of myself.

I came off as being pompous and arrogant.
Add clueless.
hahaha.

I see you haven't changed much. Still holding a grudge I see.

/applause
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