Mushihimesama Futari or ESP Galuda II?

[slateman]

I know there are a lot of threads on these games, but as we know, it's an exciting time to see two MAJOR Cave releases see home ports. I never thought I'd play either and now I'm torn to make a decision!!! (If DFK were out, region free, it'd be a no brainer!)

I wrote FAQs on both Mushihimesama and ESP Galuda and loved them both. The music in the former was great, the combo system in the latter was better.

However, if it's time to plunk down $75, I'm unsure which to choose. Certainly it's a matter of opinion and I realize that. Is ESP really that much more difficult? I thought the boss of the original was just silly difficult. I also thought the first stage of ESP Galuda a bit boring to play over and over.

This may be a broad question, but I simply cannot afford both and have never played either. Any opinions that could sway me?

[third_strike]

With Futari + DLC BL you will have lot of modes, well pretty much of same. I would not buy this If I was you.
Cool!

[evil_ash_xero]

Futari is really good, but I like Galuda II better. But I can see how a lot of people would prefer Futari. It's easier, and less complex. That's not a bad thing though.

Galuda is a good deal harder than Futari.

Unless we're talking about Futari 1.1, which is really freaking hard.

[EOJ]

Mushihimesama Futari is loved by all those who love great shmups. So get it first and foremost, and be happy. Ver 1.5 is on the disc and is the definition of superb. For ver 1.01 you need a DLC card, but it is also an excellent game, particularly in Maniac mode. Black Label is paid DLC, but it's only worthwhile for its God mode (both Original mode and (especially) Maniac mode pale in comparison to their ver 1.5 and ver 1.01 counterparts).

Espgaluda 2 Black Label is also a great game, with many modes right on the disc and no DLC to dick around with, but none of the modes are as fun as Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 IMO.

[GaijinPunch]

I think EOJ, while being pretty hardcore himself, represents most people: Futari (especially if you throw in BL) is easier to get into and enjoy. Galuda 2 takes a higher level of mania. I think if I was just now exposed to the game w/ all that's going on in my life, I would probably not rank it as high as I do. Fortunately (or unfortunately?) I got it when it first came out and I had heaps of free time in my life. Played it exclusively for months a couple of times. I think I even smashed a controller b/c of it at one point.

[slateman]

Good input...quite helpful. I have known that EOJ is enamored with Futari. Does it matter that I think DOJ is the best ever? Scoring, difficulty, the whole lot. It's the best EVER! Would that change an opinion about which is better?

[EOJ]

If you love DOJ, you'll probably like Futari 1.01 Maniac mode more than anything else. Similar difficulty (to DOJ's first loop), similar bullet patterns, but with a more forgiving scoring system.

Also keep in mind I think Futari is a 10/10, but Galuda 2 is a 9.5/10. You explicitly stated you can only choose one, and really, if you flipped a coin and went on that, I think you'd be happy with the outcome.

[Elixir]

With Futari + DLC BL you will have lot of modes, well pretty much of same. I would not buy this If I was you.
Cool!

Did you even play Futari? Futari has way more variety compared to Galuda 2.

[NR777]

With Futari + DLC BL you will have lot of modes, well pretty much of same. I would not buy this If I was you.
Cool!

If you can't see the difference between any of Futari's modes then you really aren't very perceptive, are you? It's fine if you don't like the game but try to demonstrate, at minimum, a rudimentary level of understanding before you slag it off. You just come off as not knowing what the hell you're talking about.

[riffbear]

if we all chipped in $5 he can get his other choice too.

[MSZ]

Mushi Futari is a lot more n00bs-friendly. Galuda II is simply DOJ-hard IMO.

[Danbo]

futari's a good game and all but i tend to find it kinda tedious (so much bullet cancelling when that's not meant to be the point of the game, stage 4 gets repetitive, scoring systems are terrible). galuda 2 has more depth if you're into chasing big scores and i find it to be a much more exciting game overall. i'd get galuda2 over futari, but you can't go wrong with either of them (and i guess futari's modes would give you more value for money)

[substancej]

With Mushi you get a ton of confusing little variations on the same rather dull game. Nothing in Mushi ever clicked for me. Meanwhile its taken me a full month to get even a basic feel for Esp Galuda II, but I am absolutely loving it. There's just as much variety as Mushi but with a more cohesive feel and just a better flowing game. I say get Galuda. It feels like a much better value, too, since everything is on the disc.

[clp]

I know there are a lot of threads on these games, but as we know, it's an exciting time to see two MAJOR Cave releases see home ports. I never thought I'd play either and now I'm torn to make a decision!!! (If DFK were out, region free, it'd be a no brainer!)

I wrote FAQs on both Mushihimesama and ESP Galuda and loved them both. The music in the former was great, the combo system in the latter was better.

However, if it's time to plunk down $75, I'm unsure which to choose. Certainly it's a matter of opinion and I realize that. Is ESP really that much more difficult? I thought the boss of the original was just silly difficult. I also thought the first stage of ESP Galuda a bit boring to play over and over.

This may be a broad question, but I simply cannot afford both and have never played either. Any opinions that could sway me?

If you found the first esp difficult which is by far the easiest cave game ever your gonna have nightmares with these two .Id go with mushi more noob friendly-ness range of difficulties to work your way up through .

[gray117]

^^ The first espgaluda's boss is a unique part of that game's difficulty imho. Although different skills to practice with, is a good point in futari's favour if you want to work you're way up on a game. [Personally I don't like doing this; preferring to simply practice on manic, equally god/hard mode can fck off imho - although much congrats to anyone who are good at it ]

I've both games; choosing only one I'd side with espgaluda 2 just because it aesthetically suits me a bit more and if I was to only get one I'd feel I didn't get the best one for my personality if I didn't get espgaluda.

I also feel there is a greater dynamic to the play systems/ludic manner in espgaluda. Futari's systems, although good in the sense of being 'pure', seem a little plain in comparison when traversing the whole game: I would suggest that espgaluda's systems and game modes offer a bit more variety than the futari ones - the arrange mode in particular is a rather fun twist. But maybe that isn't what you're after if you're about concentrating on one mode/game?

I'm not a good shmup player - survival is a much more realistic aspiration for me than score; if you are a score person I can see futari BL dlc being very appealing...

Espgaluda 2 has novice modes if you're uncertain of difficulties and need a game you want to complete [kind of] properly as well as having other [truer ?] modes for challenge.

One point to mention is I'm a little unsure how I feel about espgaluda's BL. In all fairness, I had never really seen much of this before, and haven't played much of it yet either, so maybe a bit premature in saying I don't like it ... but I love the arcade (most plays) and arrange (for fun twist) (there's also a 360 mode). But perhaps if you're after the BL best to check out it's mechanics beforehand... wierd sliding bullet hits etc...

[Schrodinger's cat]

futari's a good game and all but i tend to find it kinda tedious (so much bullet cancelling when that's not meant to be the point of the game, stage 4 gets repetitive, scoring systems are terrible).

I completely disagree with this. The scoring system in 1.5 Maniac is actually my favorite out of all the ones I've seen in any other Cave game. There's actually quite a bit of breathing room when it comes scoring well, because you can screw up a little bit but still max out your multiplier before having to cash-in during many key scoring sections of the game. It's definitely not as strict as Espgaluda II is when you're playing for score.

As far as bullet canceling goes, I'd argue that it's pretty much a huge part of both games. In Espgaluda II, you're pretty much waiting for as many bullets to appear on the screen as possible before canceling them out in Zetsushikai mode for big points. I think it is very similar to Mushi in that aspect, but I find it a little harder because there's less room for you to screw up. For instance, you can easily lose out on a few million points if you're missing only 10 gems/gold while in Zetsushikai mode because you might just run out of time for that last (and probably most valuable) cash-in point.

I think of Espgaluda II as a combination of Futari Original and Maniac because you have to be very close to enemies when you kill them in order to get the max amount of gems for scoring well in Zetsushikai mode.

Overall, I think that Mushi is more bang for the buck since there are more modes right out of the box, but since you like DOJ you might actually not have a problem with the strict scoring system of Espgaluda II. Then again you might fall in love with Futari Ultra (or God mode), so you might as well flip a coin to see what game you're getting at this point.

[RGC]

if you flipped a coin and went on that, I think you'd be happy with the outcome.

What he said.

[Danbo]

As far as bullet canceling goes, I'd argue that it's pretty much a huge part of both games.

in futari it feels really unimaginative because bullet cancelling is in so many games these days... the galuda series is all about cancelling but with mushi it's not. they could surely have come up with something a little more original...

[Taylor]

I'd say both Mushi games are focused around streaming and bullet cancelling.

I find Futari is easier to recommend over Galuda2. They're both great, but the latter is much harder and each gameplay mode is another bunch of esoteric score mechanics.

[chempop]

Can't go wrong with either imho, both are two of my absolute favorite Cave games - real question is which to get first.

Breaking it down I'd ask yourself this. Do you want something a bit on the more simple side (futari), or do you want some more complex mechanics (galuda2). Also, do the various game modes interest you a ton? Futari only comes with Novice, Arcade/360, and Arrange out of the box while galuda2 has Novice, Arcade/360, Arrange, Black Label, and Omake - so in that sense galuda2 is slightly better value.

[emphatic]

ESPGALUDA II is considered "the last hard CAVE game". Think about it. I'd go with Futari as the first purchase, and once you've fallen head over heels with the hot graphics of the 360 version, know that ESPGALUDA II looks better than Futari.

I love ESPGALUDA, but never could attach myself to part II (PCB). The port's new modes really made it shine for me, and a nice way to get comfortable with the extended Kakusei mode of ESPGALUDA II.

[Momijitsuki]

With Futari + DLC BL you will have lot of modes, well pretty much of same. I would not buy this If I was you.
Cool!

...you're kidding, right?

[rancid3000]

Mushihimesama Futar was much easier to get into for me and therefore made it more enjoyable. I put in ESP Galuda II and while all of the modes are awesome, it is too much for me to take in right now. I still haven't mastered Futari on 1.5 Original. If you want complex scoring then go with Galuda II. If you want more straightforward scoring and a more traditional shmup then go with Futari. That's my casual player, non-expert opinion.

[Zweihander]

Futari is excellent, but I prefer Galuda 2, and I'd say it's the better package. For the same price, you not only get the arcade version and enhanced 360 mode, but Black Label mode, Arrange Mode, and Omake mode, each of which play significantly different. I for one liked the Arrange mode in Futari, but if you want an overall package of equal quality and variety, you'll have to spend $15 on Futari's black label mode AND get a DLC code for version 1.01.

Personally, I'd get both (which I did), but if I had to choose, I'd go with Galuda 2.

[Skykid]

Also keep in mind I think Futari is a 10/10, but Galuda 2 is a 9.5/10.

While I agree with everything EOJ has said about the game I'm not sure if i'd personally score Futari as a perfect 10. In terms of Cave games it's fantastic, no doubt - but I've played both PCB and port extensively, and compared to other Cave shmups I'd say it was up there, just not right at the top.

I found there are little niggling issues with the pacing of the game, more evident in 1.5 than BL (which flattens out the problems by downgrading the difficulty in Original & Maniac). After playing it a lot I found the initial two stages become slightly boring as you go through the routine scoring motions - they don't seem to have a massive amount of inventiveness and the second stage feels overly long for some reason. The difficulty is pitchy too, going up and down from section to section, stage to stage, boss to boss, which takes a bit of work to feel comfortable with.

Stage three section two is one of the hardest parts of the game, while the stage three boss is harder than the fourth. The last stage is easier than the fourth stage, and to score well on 1.5 Maniac you'll need to enter into a milking routine on the stage two boss - which can be tricky to keep going in rotation.

I still think the last stage is one of the best stages ever in a Cave shooter - it's enough to warrant the purchase alone - but it's definitely one of the most uneven Cave titles I've sat down with, and I didn't agree with the balancing changes in BL.

I'm critical though, I suppose my tens are DDP DOJ and Battle Garegga, neither of which I can 1cc.

Just my two cents anyhow.

[xris]

I agree with Skykid's post. Futari's balance is very wonky, stage 1 is a snooze fest, stage 5 is awesome until that bitch of a final boss. Futari helped me improve chaining, that's it.
Espgalua II !!

[EOJ]

Stage three section two is one of the hardest parts of the game, while the stage three boss is harder than the fourth. The last stage is easier than the fourth stage.

I disagree with each of these three things. I can get through the stage 3 boss without bombing (in Original/Maniac), but I usually have to bomb on the second phase of the stage 4 boss in Maniac and the last phase of that boss in Original - though sometimes I can get through each without a bomb. Stage 3 section 2 is only tricky for Abnormal Palm, for the 3 other character types it's a total breeze. I guess a lot of people only play as Abnormal Palm for some weird reason.

Stage 4 is tough, but Stage 5 is of course the hardest stage in the game, due to harsh rank in Original mode and the bullet patterns in Maniac, and the lanterns & bullet patterns in Ultra. Maybe if you have a low score with low rank due to a low multiplier, and you use Abnormal Palm, stage 5 is easier than Stage 4 in Original? I wouldn't know.

The stage 2 boss milking in Maniac is a bitch, I'll give you that. It's also necessary for a good score, and thus it can become tiresome after repeated plays. That's the only real 'balance' issue I have with the scoring. The 'Normal' characters are balanced nicely but Abnormal Reco is too weak (they should have made her even stronger than Abnormal Palm) and Abnormal Palm's laser is too strong. He was too weak in ver 1.0(1), but they beefed him up a bit too much in 1.5 IMO.

This is all ver 1.5 talk, of course.

[apple arcade]

id say get futari!

i have both and enjoy both but futari is easier to get into.

[HamidoOs]

...Galuda 2 takes a higher level of mania.

I'm gonna put this in my signature. May I?

[Skykid]

Stage three section two is one of the hardest parts of the game, while the stage three boss is harder than the fourth. The last stage is easier than the fourth stage.

I disagree with each of these three things. I can get through the stage 3 boss without bombing (in Original/Maniac), but I usually have to bomb on the second phase of the stage 4 boss in Maniac and the last phase of that boss in Original - though sometimes I can get through each without a bomb. Stage 3 section 2 is only tricky for Abnormal Palm, for the 3 other character types it's a total breeze. I guess a lot of people only play as Abnormal Palm for some weird reason.

Stage 4 is tough, but Stage 5 is of course the hardest stage in the game, due to harsh rank in Original mode and the bullet patterns in Maniac, and the lanterns & bullet patterns in Ultra. Maybe if you have a low score with low rank due to a low multiplier, and you use Abnormal Palm, stage 5 is easier than Stage 4 in Original? I wouldn't know.

The stage 2 boss milking in Maniac is a bitch, I'll give you that. It's also necessary for a good score, and thus it can become tiresome after repeated plays. That's the only real 'balance' issue I have with the scoring. The 'Normal' characters are balanced nicely but Abnormal Reco is too weak (they should have made her even stronger than Abnormal Palm) and Abnormal Palm's laser is too strong. He was too weak in ver 1.0(1), but they beefed him up a bit too much in 1.5 IMO.

This is all ver 1.5 talk, of course.

I guess it's just the way I perceive it. I only ever play normal Reco and mostly played original (although I've spent lots of time with Maniac of late).
For me stg 3 section 2 is an utter bastard - I don't want to bomb anywhere on it but it's either that or four out of five runs it'll cost me a life. The stage 4 boss I don't find too tough, whereas stg 3's can be difficult to judge and the final pattern is often so tight right at the end.
I always was surprised at how easy it was to get a grip on stage 5 though. It's absolutely nuts and a few bombs never go amiss, but I find I can usually (not always) get through it without dying.