XRGB-3

[Fudoh]

Is there much of a quality difference using a component to d-terminal cable vs a "real" d-terminal cable?

none.

If you select only 1080p during the video setup menu for the PS3 it will upscale to 1080p.

no, only for games which internally support 1080p. If a game only supports 720p, then there's no way to get 1080p from a PS3.

[Seraphic]

If you select only 1080p during the video setup menu for the PS3 it will upscale to 1080p.

no, only for games which internally support 1080p. If a game only supports 720p, then there's no way to get 1080p from a PS3.

If you set check only 1080p output in the PS3 video options it will upscale games to 1080p. I've done it before.

What version of SEGA Saturn works well with the XRGB3 and HD3000? Wonder how good Guardian Heroes would look upscaled to 1080p... Anyway, does SEGA Saturn have a RGB cable or does composite/s-video work just as well? Would it be better to find a Japanese Saturn or US?

[Konsolkongen]

If you set check only 1080p output in the PS3 video options it will upscale games to 1080p. I've done it before.

No it doesn't. Both my TV and HD3000 says 720p whenever a game is stared

What version of SEGA Saturn works well with the XRGB3 and HD3000? I wanna upscale Guardian Heroes to 1080p. Does SEGA Saturn have a RGB cable or does composite work just as well? Would it be better to find a Japanese Saturn or US?

I think we here in this thread found that the old model with the oval buttons had a little bit better picture than the newer model. I'm using a new model at it still looks very good
Sega Saturn has RGB output. This is Sega after all

EDIT: And composhit is never even close to RGB in when it comes to picture quality.

[Konsolkongen]

If you set check only 1080p output in the PS3 video options it will upscale games to 1080p. I've done it before.

No it doesn't. Both my TV and HD3000 says 720p whenever a game is stared

LOL actually you are right! If you uncheck 720p and 1080i it does output in only 1080p. BUT it seems to upscale from 480/576p as it is a lot less detailed than 720p. Compare the text when you bring up the XMB menu in the two different resolutions, the difference should be obvious. Its pretty unusable but a great find

[Seraphic]

By old model for Sega Saturn do you mean the first model? Yeah, I don't think the PS3 has a built in hardware scaler or maybe it does but it's horizontal hardware and vertical software or something. So you have an XRGB2+, and HD3000 and a RGB cable for Saturn? Do you have Guardian Heroes or another side scrolling game? How does it look upscaled to 1080p look?

[Konsolkongen]

I have a XRGB-3. My Optoma HD3000 does not accept the picture from the XRGB-3 i don't know why. And my TV does not accept the XRGB-3's 1080p resolution. Quality stuff :p

I did try upscaling Guardian Heroes to 1280x1024 using only the XRGB-3 and it did look very nice. Personally i like 640x480 from the XRGB-3's B1 mode better since you can add scanlines which look pretty sweet IMO

Here are some picture is took a long time ago of Guardian Heroes. One of them is in 1280x1024, one is in 640x480 and the last one is in 640x480 with scanlines. I don't remember which is which:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1269472366
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1269472389
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1269472399

[Seraphic]

Guardian Heroes is such a great game. Wish they bring it to PSN or Xbox live for download... Just think of it? Six player online vs. mode! Anyway, how are you connecting the saturn to the xrgb3 and how are you connecting the xrgb3 to the HD3000?

[Konsolkongen]

Saturn is connected to the XRGB-3 by RGB scart. My Optoma HD3000 does not show a picture from the XRGB-3. So the XRGB-3 is connected directly to my TV.

And yes, Guardian Heroes is awesome (like most other Treasure games). I wouldn't want to play it on anything but a Saturn though

[Animaitor]

Little question... just got PS3 and my screen is a Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW de 24" (1920x1200 max resolution) that is not HDCP compliant. I was wondering if adding the XRBG-3 in the mix I could get something useful out of it. For example, connecting the PS3 through DVI to the XRBG and from here use VGA. Since VGA is analog, it will not carry the HDCP signal any longer. Can this be done? If so, what resolution could I get? I found something called "PS3-S201 GAMESWITCH" but is damn expensive! Thanks for any helpful tip.

[Konsolkongen]

I don't think the XRGB-3 can convert a "PC input" to analog. I tried it the other way around (PC <VGA> XRGB-3 <DVI> Screen) and it didn't work.

[Fudoh]

Since VGA is analog, it will not carry the HDCP signal any longer.

you need a HDFury. They are about 12.000yen for a HDFury 1, 20.000yen for a HDFury2 and 30.000 for a HDFury3. For straight PS3 usage the HDFury 1 is good enough.

On the XRGB-3 you can input 720p YUV from a PS3 and output 1200p through DVI in B0 mode, that quality isn't top notch and you get added lag.

[Animaitor]

Thanks you both. I guess the HDFury or PS3-S201 GAMESWITCH don't add lag, right? These things are expensive. For a little more I can get a new monitor! I'll go around Akihabara tomorrow and see what I can find.

Edit: just checked on HDFury's forums and came to this conclusion. Forget the HDFury (any version) to work with the Dell 2405FPW at 1080p as this monitor doesn't display 1920x1080 (Dell knew this problem but refused to release a firmware). I guess is the PS3-S201 GAMESWITCH or getting a new monitor...

[RGB32E]

While looking at monoprice.com for what HDFury units they have for sale, I found this device:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/produ ... largeimage



Even though it might be a stretch, anyone care to speculate as to if this unit would improve compatibility with DVI output in B0 mode? Could this device possibly cause additional input lag? If this device allows me to use DVI instead of VGA for 1080p, $40 would be a small price to pay IMO.

I'm also interested in this device (for sources, not XRGB output):
http://www.monoprice.com/products/produ ... largeimage



The gamma device would probably be more helpful for my PVM-2030 though...

[Fudoh]

anyone care to speculate as to if this unit would improve compatibility with DVI output in B0 mode?

no, i don't see how. The picture signal is untouched. All the unit does is to mux to Audio signal onto the video signal.

Could this device possibly cause additional input lag?

unlikely.

GammaX: to my knowledge SD resolutions are not supported, only 31khz+

[Seraphic]

Also, for Playstation 1 games, would it be better to use an XRGB3 or a Playstation3?
Which produces better quality?

PS3 gives a sharper image. But if you like scanlines then you should use the XRGB-3's B1 mode.

Is there a difference in 240p and 480i quality of PS1/PS2 games on PS3 vs. the XRGB-3?

[Konsolkongen]

480i will look hella lot better on PS3. That's possibly what the XRGB does worst. 240p on the other hand is what the XRGB was made for and it looks great. 240p will also look great on the PS3 but without the possibility of Scanlines and some say the PS3 adds a 2 frame delay when upscaling.

Also the PS3 has no way of playing import PS1/2 games so i would go for a real PS1/2 console and a XRGB any day.

[Animaitor]

Also the PS3 has no way of playing import PS1/2 games so i would go for a real PS1/2 console and a XRGB any day.

Depending from where your PS3 is, version and what games are you importing. But I agree, if you want 240p with scanlines a PS2 + XRGB is the way to go.

[Seraphic]

Original 60GB PS3s can load PS2 ISOs import or not. I'm lucky to have an original 60GB PS3 and have tried it. Only problem is the games run in USB 1.1 mode... so there is some slow down and not all games work.

http://www.haxnetwork.net/showthread.php?t=8791

Anyway, going back to PS3 vs XRGB3. With PS3 you can output v.i digital HDMI and thus RGB. Other then scan-lines, wouldn't this provide a much better quality image vs. using analog cables?

[neist]

Alright.. I'm finally considering buying some variety of XRGB. I think it's becoming ever more clear that I'll never be able to afford a candy cab. I've read the two often-linked-to articles on the subject as well as poured over the incredibly help Wiki. I've learned a lot.

Still, before reading all this, I basically knew nothing about video at all. My background is mostly in graphic design and writing, so much of the terminology in this thread goes way above me.

I have just one simple question about the XRGB (a question which I've tried searching for, but this is a very big thread). What's the strengths of each model? Which should I be aiming to hunt down? I hear that there's some issues with the various models, but I can't seem to find a thread detailing what sort of problems I may run into.

I'll be most likely gaming on an LCD TV or monitor via VGA. I live in the US, so Scart or Japanese RGB is out of the question unless I can track down those rather expensive cables. I'll be getting this primarily for retro consoles, and more specifically, for my PC Engine Duo RX, Super Nintendo, and Genesis. I'd also like the option, if possible, to create scanlines for my Virtual Console games (Is that even possible?).

Without creating this post any longer, what sort of XRGB should I try to get? What sort of problems may I run into given various choices? I'm very much a virgin when it comes to all of this.

Thanks in advance.

[Fudoh]

What's the strengths of each model? Which should I be aiming to hunt down?

The only reason you might want to consider a XRGB-2 is if you want to run PCB's with non standard frequencies (like Seibu boards) on VGA CRTs. If you want to play on a LCD this won't help anyway, so get a XRGB-3 right away.

I live in the US, so Scart or Japanese RGB is out of the question unless I can track down those rather expensive cables.

there's no point in buying a XRGB when you don't want to get the best possible cables.

Without creating this post any longer, what sort of XRGB should I try to get?

XRGB-3 along with RGB cables for all your systems.

What sort of problems may I run into given various choices?

none which can't be solved by asking in this thread.

[RGB32E]

I'd also like the option, if possible, to create scanlines for my Virtual Console games (Is that even possible?).

Without creating this post any longer, what sort of XRGB should I try to get? What sort of problems may I run into given various choices? I'm very much a virgin when it comes to all of this.

Thanks in advance.

Yes, you can add scanlines to Virtual Console games that output 240p signal (not all VC games do this). However, you have to perform the right configuration. IIRC, have to set the resolution option on the Wii to 480i for the system to output 240p. NES and SNES output 240p, but not all other VC platform emulators ever output 240p. For example, TG16 emu only runs in 480i, and scanlines won't really be applied. Hence, things can be complicated at first, but you will thank yourself once you have things configured right.

Go buy this NOW!!!! Your US credit card can be used directly without fees... but you have to figure out where to have it shipped to in Japan, and have that person send/pickup for you. I had a friend pick mine up in Japan on a trip!
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/switch-langu ... uage=en_JP

Acquiring cables can be a pain, but there are many owners on this thread that can help, and even build the cables (such as myself ).

[neist]

Loads of help!

And I'm going to try to get the good cables, but official ones are kind of hard to come by. May even take a while to save up the money to get them.

By chance is there any loss in quality when using those Scart to RGB converters of the likes that are on eBay? Scart cables are way easier to come by than original RGB ones. And, by that same token, will Scart cables work on consoles of another region (i.e., not PAL)? I assume it's just a cable that has different outputs, but I'm not sure if there's more to it.

Sorry for the newbie-ish questions. Just need to make sure I don't spend hundreds on something that I can't use properly. I'm not exactly the richest guy.

Edit: I should probably clarify the Scart cable question. There's some cables on eBay that go from Scart to RGB. Theory being that you could run a console's Scart cable into the adapter into the XRGB.

[Fudoh]

I wouldn't worry too much about actual RGB cable quality. Scart is just a name for the connector type, while RGB describes the signal. You can buy cheap 3rd party RGB cables for your systems. Quality will be great compared to composite and S-Video and most likely only a tiny little bit away from the original cables (if at all).

When buying european Scart cables you need a converter from european Scart to japanese Scart.

[RGB32E]

SCART is just a standard for what pins should connect what on a peritel connector (21 pin connector).

Most SCART RGB cables for video game systems can be rewired so that they are compatible with the XRGB-3. Others on this forum have noticed that those SCART to JP21 adapters degrade the signal... I've built most of the RGB cables I use with the XRGB were ones I've converted and/or built from parts.

Check the gamesx wiki AV matrix to get an idea for RGB capabilities of the various different consoles (covers both NTSC and PAL differences):
http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=matrix

-The PAL Gamecube and SNES output +12VDC on their "SNES" connector instead of Composite Sync (possibly the same for PAL N64)
-PAL gamecubes output RGB on their "SNES" connector, NTSC ones do not (use digital AV output instead)
-PAL Wii systems output RGB instead of S-Video (like NTSC systems)

Those 3 are the biggest NTSC vs PAL differences when it comes to RGB cables on NTSC systems.

[Konsolkongen]

Do the Dreamcast version of GigaWing output in 240p when using a RGB cable? I have the US version and since this is a Capcom game it doesn't support RGB cables... I believe that the JAP version does.

It looks absolutely horrifying ugly when playing in VGA

[Fudoh]

I believe that the JAP version does.

no, it does not - at least not on my setup.

[Konsolkongen]

Ok :S Guess i'll have to dig out my S-video cable later. But since Mars Matrix doesn't output in 240p i'm not setting my hopes too high :/

[RGB32E]

http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3573.0

This is a thread that covers the no RGB DC games. While it does not list all games, both NTSC versions of Gigawing will not output RGB with pin 7 grounded. Perhaps RGB might work with pin 6 grounded instead?

Wetrix+ (USA/JPN)
Gunbird 2 (USA/JPN)
Timestalkers (USA/JPN)
Giga Wing (USA/JPN)
Elemental Gimmick Gear (USA/JPN)
Skies of Arcadia (USA) / Eternal Arcadia (JPN)
Street Fighter Alpha 3 (USA) / Street Fighter Zero 3 (JPN)
Street Fighter II X for Matching Service (JPN)
Vampire Chronicle for Matching Service (JPN)
Touken Retsuden 4 (JPN)
Pop 'n Music (JPN)
Pop 'n Music 2 (JPN)
Pop 'n Music 3 Append Disk (JPN)
Pop 'n Music 4 Append Disk (JPN)

Also, while I've yet to confirm myself, some of Capcom prints had RGB support, some did not?

I discovered a year ago that Capcom's Street Fighter III: 3rd strike can be switched from 480i (default) to 240p! (Hold Left trigger + start button while booting the game)

I wonder if any of capcom's other ports do this... but I prefer arcade boards to ports for most games (except for Naomi based games of course).

[Konsolkongen]

Hmm i was pretty sure that Skies of Arcadia was like this:

PAL: Supports RGB, only runs in 50Hz, no VGA
US: No RGB, supports VGA
JAP: Supports both RGB and VGA

But since i have only had the US and PAL versions i cant say for sure about the Japanese one.

Anyways i found today that the following Dreamcast games outputs correctly in 240p:

Marvel vs. Capcom (EU has both 50 and 60Hz options)
Gunbird 2 (EU apparently only supports 60Hz?)
Twinkle Star Sprites (JAP)

Especially that Gunbird 2 runs in 240p was a nice discovery since i've always hated that it had to be forced in VGA for a somewhat nice picture, but at the cost of severe slowdown ingame. As you can probably understand i've always assumed that these games were 480i titles and/or 50Hz only. MvsC and TSS both work fine in VGA but look so much better with scanlines

[RGB32E]

Looks like the second revision of the English firmware is up on Micomsoft's site now! I don't recall anyone mentioning that it is available...? I'll have to update later today and confirm the fix.