The idea that keyboard > other input devices

[gs68]

As someone who, 3 years ago, switched from keyboards for PC shmups to pads and, eventually, occasional stick use, I don't get how some people (coughtouhoufanbasecough) think keyboards are "more maneuverable" than, say, pads or sticks. You get the guarantee that pressing a key will 100% guarantee you move in that direction (as opposed to crappier pads or sticks), but I've found moments requiring a lot of diagonal input (i.e. the weapon items at the start of Battle Garegga stage 1) to be more complex to do on a keyboard than on a pad or stick.

Can someone please enlighten me on how moving from keyboard to pad or stick was a mistake?

[Pirate1019]

Can someone please enlighten me on how moving from keyboard to pad or stick was a mistake?

It wasn't.

[Momijitsuki]

The Touhou fanbase tends to prefer the keyboard above all because that's what they're used to-- so of course they'd say they're more maneuverable.

I'm better with a keyboard than a stick because that's my only option most of the time. I still prefer a stick because they're more fun to use overall.

[ave]

Can someone please enlighten me on how moving from keyboard to pad or stick was a mistake?

Who says it was a mistake? Moving from keyboard to whatever device was the only good thing to do. I know one can get used to playing on a keyboard, but hands down - it's not the most comfortable way to play shooters. I've been playing MAME and free/shareware shooters for years using the PC keyboard, but once I got that USB Saturn joypad a while back, I never dared to touch the arrow keys again.

[Drum]

Keyboard is more responsive and accurate, no question - especially if you have a really good, comfy keyboard. Diagonals aren't easy to hit? Well, that's true of sticks and (especially) pads too. Keyboard is preferable for any game that doesn't require analog for 3D movement, in which case you go with a pad. Arcade sticks are pretty cool, but they're kind of fetishistic - nothing objectively better about them.

[clp]

for me i love arcade sticks and as these are arcade games they were designed with the arcade setup in mind so claiming something else is better is like turning up to play table tennis with a cricket bat and saying your playing with it because its better/easier whatever . Awaiting incoming shitstorm .

[Drum]

for me i love arcade sticks and as these are arcade games they were designed with the arcade setup in mind so claiming something else is better is like turning up to play table tennis with a cricket bat and saying your playing with it because its better/easier whatever . Awaiting incoming shitstorm .

A cricket bat wouldn't be better/easier.

[clp]

for me i love arcade sticks and as these are arcade games they were designed with the arcade setup in mind so claiming something else is better is like turning up to play table tennis with a cricket bat and saying your playing with it because its better/easier whatever . Awaiting incoming shitstorm .

A cricket bat wouldn't be better/easier.

Ah excellent thank god someone with experience could clarify.

[ncp]

Is it opposite day or something? I don't think I've ever seen anyone say keyboards are superior to sticks. Stop hanging out on Touhou forums, I guess?

[Pirate1019]

Awaiting incoming shitstorm .

Only because you're stirring one up. We've had that argument a couple times before and I doubt you can make it as interesting as Icycalm did.

Unlike the pad/stick argument, keyboards are used differently than both of those. A pad or stick only requires movement of 1 appendage. An arm/hand, or a thumb. Keyboards take 3 fingers if you're using them the way I think you do. It seems easy to think that this would take more effort/be harder.

[Drum]

It seems easy to think that this would take more effort/be harder.

The twist is that it's actually easier - three fingers beats one thumb doing all the duties or your entire wrist.
Fighting games are definitely better on a stick or pad though - that's the big exception.

[clp]

It seems easy to think that this would take more effort/be harder.

The twist is that it's actually easier

If theres one thing we have learnt from this retarded argument and all the ppl trying to turn it into a god damn exact science ( get out more?) its that it all yet again comes down to preference and which you have played with the most to feel comfortable with .

[captpain]

PROMETHEUS

'nuff said

[Drum]

EDIT: Never mind.

[originalz]

I find it very difficult to make subtle movements with a keyboard...with a stick I always feel in "control" of my character! I guess it's a preference thing, but I really find it difficult to imagine someone doing better with a KB than a dedicated joystick!

[spineshark]

I have a preference for using keyboard when I'm playing on my computer, because, well, I always have a keyboard on my computer, but for me it's a bit of a tradeoff either way. I'm better at tapping on keys, and quick direction changes, but for larger sweeping movements I feel like I have a lot more options with a stick. Pads have the tapping thing going for them at least, and I did eventually beat Galuda on one so they're not too crippling, but I really don't prefer them.

Now fighters, for some reason I can't play Senko no Ronde or IaMP on a stick. Anything else, playing on key/pad is a last resort.

[null1024]

Keyboards are damned accurate to what you want to do -- no mucking around with a soft pad [common problem] or misthrowing a stick [not so common problem, probably ranks almost the same as screwing up on a keyboard] for your diagonals.

On the other hand, sticks feel nicer, and for sweeping motions [especially fighting games, try to do a half circle on a keyboard...] or switching between diagonals they're awesome. Pads... well I don't like pads so I can't extol any of their virtues.


Of course, I use a keyboard, because I'm a cheap bastard who can only play on a stick when I find an arcade.

[AraraSPAMWitch]

Diagonals aren't easy to hit? Well, that's true of sticks and (especially) pads too.

Pads, yes, but you're dumb if you think it's harder to hit diagonals on stick than keyboard. With the well-defined corners of sticks, they are by far the easiest input method for diagonals

Keyboard is preferable for any game that doesn't require analog for 3D movement.

Ha ha ha, like fighting games!

PROMETHEUS

Didn't somebody 1cc DDP with a Guitar Hero controller or something? I can't 1cc it with a stick or a pad (yes I suck), thus plastic guitar = sanwa

I don't think Prometheus counts, he's ludicrously good, but an anomaly -- using keyboard is not representative of the majority of casual or elite players. All he proves is that it is possible, if you have enough skill, to do amazing shit with a keyboard, but it does not prove that keyboard is necessarily equal to other input modes. In fact, it may be a hindrance -- for all we know, if he started gaming on stick, he might have the world record, or not. I'm going to guess the top JP scorers used stick, which doesn't necessarily say one is better. Using scores to justify an input method doesn't prove anything besides the fact that good players will find a way to be good using whatever they have.

[Drum]

Diagonals aren't easy to hit? Well, that's true of sticks and (especially) pads too.

Pads, yes, but you're dumb if you think it's harder to hit diagonals on stick than keyboard. With the well-defined corners of sticks, they are by far the easiest input method for diagonals

And you're dumb if you think I said it was harder to hit diagonals on a stick - I just said it was hard on sticks too. It really depends on the stick - not all of them have guides (in fact, most don't) so huah.

Ha ha ha, like fighting games!

My bad - but in my defence I remembered and put that in my next post. Clearly I should have edited for the people that don't read the whole thread.

[gs68]

One diagonal is one thing. Multiple directions, including both cardinals and diagonals, in a short timespan is another.

[Drum]

One diagonal is one thing. Multiple directions, including both cardinals and diagonals, in a short timespan is another.

As a kb supremacist, I can't deny this. Any time you gotta input some degrees, a stick or pad is better.

[Gungriffon Geona]

Didn't somebody 1cc DDP with a Guitar Hero controller or something? I can't 1cc it with a stick or a pad (yes I suck), thus plastic guitar = sanwa

When the hell did that happen?

[AraraSPAMWitch]

And you're dumb if you think I said it was harder to hit diagonals on a stick - I just said it was hard on sticks too. It really depends on the stick - not all of them have guides (in fact, most don't) so huah.

real talk, it isn't hard to hit diagonals on a good stick (i.e., one that has corners, if you're using a stick with a circular gate you have bad taste and probably play Marvel)

in my defence I remembered and put that in my next post. Clearly I should have edited for the people that don't read the whole thread.

my b, I'm so eager to troll I only read posts I don't like

EDIT:
Gungriffon, DDP Guitar Hero story is apocryphal, heard it somewhere and it's probably not true, but it's somewhat amusing

[Ruldra]

Stick to what you're most comfortable with, be either a keyboard, pad or stick. What matters is your own skill, not how you control your ship. No input device is superior to the other.

Peace.

[Ex-Cyber]

Most keyboards on the market are complete shit, with BS like "multimedia keys" standing in for decent construction. I have no trouble believing that some people perform better with a good keyboard, though.

[Schrodinger's cat]

I made the switch to a joystick a little over 6 months ago after playing on the keyboard almost exclusively. There's a learning curve, but I found that I played a lot better than I ever did on a keyboard after getting over it.

I'm quite comfortable with both but find it hard to come back to keyboards for a few main reasons:
- You can't accidentally press the wrong keys. This rarely ever happens but it's really annoying when it does. There's been a few times where I clumsily ended up pressing W and S at the same time in the heat of a boss fight and ended up dying. This is impossible with a stick.
- I can tap dodge faster on a stick than on a keyboard. Maybe you guys have faster fingers than I do but it feels a bit slower tapping keys, even at my fastest. You'd think it would have been the other way around. My LS-32 just feels more precise and I don't find myself running into bullets as much.

[cools]

It seems easy to think that this would take more effort/be harder.

The twist is that it's actually easier - three fingers beats one thumb doing all the duties or your entire wrist.
Fighting games are definitely better on a stick or pad though - that's the big exception.

When using a stick I use four fingers, my thumb, and my wrist.

[Sasupoika]

I don't have pad/stick or anything, so I use keyboard. All of my 1CCs and scores have been done on keyboard. ESPra.de. 1cc etc.
Of course Medal will come in saying that I could have 1cc'd DOJ first loop if I had a stick.
Or Progear. I have awful luck with last bosses.
I wonder if I could perform better with pad or a stick.

[Pirate1019]

I wonder if I could perform better with pad or a stick.

There is no reason not to at least find out. Decent pads can be had for cheap. I bought this ugly motherfucker when I first got into emulating stuff. It's better than it looks, and the PS2 variant is leaps and bounds above the official controller. There's also the Sega USB pad that a lot of people prefer, myself included.

Sticks can also be had for cheap, but the price will show a little more than with a pad.

[ncp]

PROMETHEUS

'nuff said

Well if we're going to play that game I think I'll go with
EVERY JAPANESE PLAYER USING A STICK
and there's a lot of them. Should I add the "'nuff said" implying that I just destroyed the topic or whatnot?