What makes a shmup good?

[toaplan_shmupfan]

Also, this caught my eye:

"What do you like best about shmups in general?"
Good level design and bullet patterns that are intresting/possible to dodge without memorizing the correct path. Basically someone with skills can avoid it the first time he navigates through it.

This makes for very boring games for good players.

The boring problem is easily solved by how old school shmups did it--add additional threats to the shot pattern. That could be tanks or helicopters attacking from the sides (Twin Cobra stage 1, stage 2, stage 5, stage 10), extra gun turrets of enemy patterns off to the side while fighting the boss (Truxton stage 1, stage 3, stage 4), or additional mini-bosses adding to the threat of the main boss (Raiden stage 3, stage 5)... among any other ways of making a relatively straightforward bullet pattern a much greater challenge.

[Dandy J]

JUICE and MUSIC

[Enhasa]

Sorry to bump this thread, but at least I'll try to give some personal answers that haven't been said (I think). Not everyone will agree, but then again, if there's something like "good music" that everyone would agree on, it wouldn't be worth including, would it?

Something I want to say is I don't see any difference at all between "what makes a shmup good" and "what makes a video game good." People are always like, don't put cutscenes in shmups, leave that to the RPG guys. That makes no sense to me, I don't want that shit in any game. Why should genre matter?


Best: Bill took my answer with pacing, so I'll go with: I like having to actually move around. Accomplish this by mixing up bullet types, including at the same time. Slow, fast, aimed, leading, clusters, lasers, whatever.

Worst: Repetition in design. Whether this comes in overly long stages or checkpoints, this is the heart of the issue. I also hate fluking through patterns, which is the opposite of people who say they hate memorization. Fact: the reverse of memorization is beating something your first try. I don't want that, I don't know why people do.

Like best about shmups: They tend not to have stuff I hate that is present in other genres, like cutscenes, repetition, more randomness, etc. But most of all, being too easy. Also see last two sections.

Shops, stats: I don't think RPG elements (I mean character micromanagement, not plot) are intrinsically bad. The problem is that they are tremendously difficult to balance and get right. Almost nobody does. You probably won't either. As a result, they make most games they appear in, like most modern games of all genres, much worse. By the way, it's definitely a bad idea to require leveling up. Another thing is: shmups already have stats. You have lives, powerups, speed, rank, etc. When you choose to avoid a powerup in Garegga, you are making a stat-based decision. I like flexibility like that.

How much time spent: If I like it, 100+ hours? Who knows, I don't count.

Combo system, combo scoring, shield, time bonus, health: No different from any other system, I can't say without details. Not intrinsically bad though. People tend to mess all of these up in practice though.

Bullet accuracy: Unlike others apparently, I think this could be a cool idea. I'm a fan of having to do something with the shot button other than hold it down all the time, and most people won't complain if it only affects score. Try to do something creative with this though.

Secrets: Yes.
Level select: Progressively unlocked.
Maps: Hurt, unless you redesign the game around this.
Alternate paths: Help, but make sure not to dilute quality with quantity.

[esreveR]

Here's what makes a shmup good: More bullets. From both you and the enemies.

This is why I play everything on Hardest with 50 lives or so.

[cj iwakura]

Gameplay wise? Lots of stuff to blow up. Especially ground targets.

Especially the kind that don't shoot back.

Raiden's always been good for this.


I also like a good story, whether explicitly told(Shikigami), or the read between the lines type(Ikaruga).

[BIL]

Gameplay wise? Lots of stuff to blow up. Especially ground targets.

Especially the kind that don't shoot back.

Raiden's always been good for this.

Which Raiden is that? Those games' sniper tanks are about as vicious as ground targets get. Unless you mean the astonishingly detailed collateral damage to buildings, which does indeed never get old.

[clp]

Here's what makes a shmup good: More bullets. From both you and the enemies.

This is why I play everything on Hardest with 50 lives or so.

[cj iwakura]

Gameplay wise? Lots of stuff to blow up. Especially ground targets.

Especially the kind that don't shoot back.

Raiden's always been good for this.

Which Raiden is that? Those games' sniper tanks are about as vicious as ground targets get. Unless you mean the astonishingly detailed collateral damage to buildings, which does indeed never get old.

Yes, this. I love collateral damage.