Final Fantasy XIII

[Elixir]

I'd really recommend you think about what you just said there.

I have, thanks. FF games have always been about graphics, right from when they were born. They're equally as important as their story and gameplay.

Like I said, this game isn't perfect, but giving it a score of 5/10 is just attention seeking. Actually this really isn't surprising considering it's from EDGE. I have an issue of EDGE, can't remember the issue but it does have Vib Ribbon on the cover. Practically everything in the magazine is wrong or stupid. Nothing says "UK loud and proud" like EDGE magazine.

Reviews on Gamefaqs have more credibility.

[Drum]

I'd really recommend you think about what you just said there.

I have, thanks. FF games have always been about graphics, right from when they were born. They're equally as important as their story and gameplay.

FFXIII has terrible graphics, though.

[Skykid]

I'd really recommend you think about what you just said there.

I have, thanks. FF games have always been about graphics, right from when they were born. They're equally as important as their story and gameplay.

FFXIII has terrible graphics, though.

Lol.

That's funny (but not actually true), the game looks good, it just depends how much you like androgynous boys, boring cutscenes and uninspired storytelling.

FF games have always been about graphics, right from when they were born.

I think that's something of a discredit to a very well designed series of RPG's.
I'm pretty critical I suppose, but so far it's been a few hours of straight line gameplay with no remarkable diversions or originality. The combat system is pretty tight and refined, but feels so stripped down that there's not much to it (I've never been a big fan of TB combat though.)
Feels very much like a 5/10 to me.

Practically everything in the magazine is wrong or stupid. Nothing says "UK loud and proud" like EDGE magazine.

...

[LtC]

I remember reading somewhere that if they remade FFVII with the same graphics as FFXIII it would take about 3-4 times longer than it took to make FFXIII. So basically the high-end graphics are actually killing the actual game/gameplay compared to what it was ~10 years ago?

[Pirate1019]

I'm pretty critical I suppose, but so far it's been a few hours of straight line gameplay with no remarkable diversions or originality. The combat system is pretty tight and refined, but feels so stripped down that there's not much to it (I've never been a big fan of TB combat though.)
Feels very much like a 5/10 to me.

Well get ready for more of it, because apparently you need to input anywhere from 20-30 hours (see: Over a full day) before the combat gets interesting or you get any freedom.

From what I've pieced together from a bunch of reviews (good ratings and bad), the game sounds entirely unappealing. I don't like the idea of not having full control over my party. I disliked it in Persona 3 and I very much doubt Square Enix found a magic fix. The linearity sounds bad too. I'm all for linear gameplay if it helps foster a good gameplay expeience, but if you lock me in a tube with only 2 directions to go at any given time for the first 25 hours of game time I'm gonna get mad.

this review was interesting, and he certainly didn't stop himself for the sake of word length. It's got a lot more exposition and reasoning behind his opinions, but it's also got a lot of pseudo-comedic rambling, which is why it's probably better to read the short version, and tackle the big one if you feel like listening to extended explanations.

[Skykid]

I'm pretty critical I suppose, but so far it's been a few hours of straight line gameplay with no remarkable diversions or originality. The combat system is pretty tight and refined, but feels so stripped down that there's not much to it (I've never been a big fan of TB combat though.)
Feels very much like a 5/10 to me.

Well get ready for more of it, because apparently you need to input anywhere from 20-30 hours (see: Over a full day) before the combat gets interesting or you get any freedom.

I reckon I'll jack it in before then to be honest. I have Yakuza 3 here staring me in the face and that's much more appealing.

[Ex-Cyber]

I remember reading somewhere that if they remade FFVII with the same graphics as FFXIII it would take about 3-4 times longer than it took to make FFXIII. So basically the high-end graphics are actually killing the actual game/gameplay compared to what it was ~10 years ago?

I don't think it's that simple. For one thing, FFXIII was developed in conjunction with a new engine, and I think it's unlikely that they'd do the same for an FFVII remake. I'm not sure that those situations can be compared directly.

More generally, engine development has become a bigger problem over the years, but that seems offset to some degree by engines being designed for greater flexibility, leading to easier (re)use on a wide variety of projects. Many top-selling games are built on third-party engines such as the Unreal Engine (Lost Odyssey, even), Gamebryo, and id Tech families. Others use publisher-proprietary engines, and developers have been pretty much expected to reuse pieces of their own engines for a while now.

On the art side of things, I was under the impression that doing low-poly art is generally more labor-intensive than doing high-poly art, because it involves more detailed tweaking and skills specific to that set of problems (cf. pixel art vs. Photoshop, perhaps). On the other hand, FFVII sort of cheated by having prerendered backgrounds, some of which were probably tweaked after rendering, so it's not obvious how that translates into recreating those environments in-engine. It would be interesting if some group of sufficiently skilled fans were to attempt a "serial numbers filed off" sort of tech demo (no distinctive characters/locations, but towns/dungeons following similar structural and aesthetic patterns) to explore the technical feasibility of it. There's already a group working on a new FF7 engine, but that's meant to be an enhanced clone rather than a remake.

[BryanM]

Nah more complex art is more expensive. Games that go that way cost more to make and contain less content than they used to.

Man Final Fantasy 3 was a beast. Enormous. Irresponsibly big.

Wright once asked if having ___ times as many animations made a game ___ times better. The answer is of course not. These are abstract little guys on a screen for a game, not a porno simulator.

.... to most peoples.

Or.. maybe not..................

[lgb]

androgynous boys, boring cutscenes, and uninspired storytelling

Which one's the odd-one-out!

uninspired storytelling

it's not this one, but I'd like to say that this is hilarious

[Cthulhu]

Well get ready for more of it, because apparently you need to input anywhere from 20-30 hours (see: Over a full day) before the combat gets interesting or you get any freedom.

For the combat no, it gets to be fine after 2-4 hours (once you get your abilities); I started out being rather worried about the combat system but ended up liking it a lot. For the freedom/side quests... yeah, 30 hours. Probably not 20.

[dave4shmups]

So, is the gambit system similar to FFXII? Because that got me hooked on that game!

[Skykid]

androgynous boys, boring cutscenes, and uninspired storytelling

Which one's the odd-one-out!

uninspired storytelling

It depends what moves you I suppose. The quality of the cutscenes is expertly executed and are beautiful to look at.
But the content is just the same old stuff in new FF clothes. How excited can you get about typical romances and a troupe fighting back against an evil organisation plot line?

[ZOM]

I'd really recommend you think about what you just said there.

I have, thanks. FF games have always been about graphics, right from when they were born. They're equally as important as their story and gameplay.

FFXIII has terrible graphics, though.

Can I haz the same stuff you're smoking? Some areas are overly gorgeous and some effects, the realtime volumetric shadowing for example, give even Uncharted 2 a run for its money. It's just a few areas that look like crap.

[Taylor]

I don't mind the game being linear. All final fantasy games are linear, really, it's just the latest titles don't hide it, and by not hiding it you're eating new content the whole way through instead of backtracking to a town to recap the plot in an inn.

I purposely avoided everything about the game, so didn't know what was coming until I played it, and I've put in about 3-4 hours. The only things I actively dislike so far are the vastly simplified combat (a feat I didn't think possible), and the characters constantly gasping in supposed awe through all cutscenes which sounds like they are on the cusp of orgasm.

[Skykid]

The only things I actively dislike so far are the vastly simplified combat (a feat I didn't think possible), and the characters constantly gasping in supposed awe through all cutscenes which sounds like they are on the cusp of orgasm.

Happens a lot when you get Japanese to English translations, usually when a character decides to nod and smile at totally inappropriate times to keep the cute factor up and destroy any seriousness of their current predicament.
I find it really annoying too.

[Elixir]

Please tell me how they handled this scene in English:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLvZWpiRPOw

[Skykid]

Please tell me how they handled this scene in English:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLvZWpiRPOw

Vanille's character has pretty much survived translation intact. If anything, she's just a touch less saccharine owing to western voice actors not quite getting the 'angle' the Japanese go for.
I think she's voiced by an Aussie too, which seemed odd at first but actually suits her quite well.

These type of characters aren't for me though, seen it all before a thousand times. But the description on the guys youtube vid you linked says it all really:

"this is not something I typically upload but I thought this was so cute I just had to put it up. Vanille, there is a place for you in my heart alongside Rikku!"

Bravo Final Fantasy!

...I hope that poster is a girl.

[ZOM]

I don't mind the game being linear. All final fantasy games are linear, really, it's just the latest titles don't hide it, and by not hiding it you're eating new content the whole way through instead of backtracking to a town to recap the plot in an inn.

I purposely avoided everything about the game, so didn't know what was coming until I played it, and I've put in about 3-4 hours. The only things I actively dislike so far are the vastly simplified combat (a feat I didn't think possible), and the characters constantly gasping in supposed awe through all cutscenes which sounds like they are on the cusp of orgasm.

The battle system gets way better now that you're slowly wading out of the "4 tutorial-hours" territory, in fact I quite enjoy the strategy involved in 5-star-ing some of the later battles. It's fun really, but obviously not everyone's cup of tea.

[Taylor]

Can you explain that further? I've heard people say they are 28 hours in and it still hasn't picked up.

I thought the paradigm tutorial was rather telling, which told me when to switch and how important it was, while I ignored it and just mashed X through the entire thing without incident.

[Drum]

Can I haz the same stuff you're smoking? Some areas are overly gorgeous and some effects, the realtime volumetric shadowing for example, give even Uncharted 2 a run for its money. It's just a few areas that look like crap.

Why would I have meant technically? That's kind of arbitrary. I meant it looks bad. You know, all things considered. The risible art style really drags it down - FFXII (for example) looks way better. So does Kirby's Pinball Land, for that matter. EDIT: And Sorcer Striker!
If anything, the fact that it took a huge team of artists and cost millions to make just makes it worse.

[Skykid]

Can I haz the same stuff you're smoking? Some areas are overly gorgeous and some effects, the realtime volumetric shadowing for example, give even Uncharted 2 a run for its money. It's just a few areas that look like crap.

Why would I have meant technically? That's kind of arbitrary. I meant it looks bad. You know, all things considered. The risible art style really drags it down - FFXII (for example) looks way better. So does Kirby's Pinball Land, for that matter. EDIT: And Sorcer Striker!
If anything, the fact that it took a huge team of artists and cost millions to make just makes it worse.

You mean the character designs are garish and ugly?
I can see that (XII's were a lot nicer, agreed).
Ever since Japan has started to tailor their games to a western culture things have begun to look more and more like US SNES box art.

SFIV = Donkey Kong Country.

[ZOM]

Can I haz the same stuff you're smoking? Some areas are overly gorgeous and some effects, the realtime volumetric shadowing for example, give even Uncharted 2 a run for its money. It's just a few areas that look like crap.

Why would I have meant technically? That's kind of arbitrary. I meant it looks bad. You know, all things considered. The risible art style really drags it down - FFXII (for example) looks way better. So does Kirby's Pinball Land, for that matter. EDIT: And Sorcer Striker!
If anything, the fact that it took a huge team of artists and cost millions to make just makes it worse.

I fully agree with you if we're talking character models and their clothing, but the world is in my eyes actually quite beautifully realized - of course that's a matter of opinion...
Just a question, have you played the whole game? There's some really beautiful places in there and for me it's quite hard to immagine that someone doesn't like them, being a fan of the game or not aside.

Can you explain that further? I've heard people say they are 28 hours in and it still hasn't picked up.

I thought the paradigm tutorial was rather telling, which told me when to switch and how important it was, while I ignored it and just mashed X through the entire thing without incident.

Wowzers, if you're really past chapter 4 and you're mashing X and still get five stars then your game's copy must be broken... or mine
Seriously now, imo the battle system gets very interesting once you've come across the bigger obstacles like later bosses and optional missions, which is about at the 20-40 hour mark depending on your playstyle, or, in other words once you reach pulse and are a free to do stuff.

Oh, and about those "people", they just don't like the game. me thinks.

[Taylor]

I was hoping you could give an example, because with the tools I have currently I don't see how you could create a strategic fight. Mentioning optional bosses and making the 5 stars sound important just makes me think of FF12, where you can beat 99% of the enemies doing little more than gesturing your party towards them... until the optional hunting missions and gimmicky final dungeon (I think, stopped playing it the 3rd time I fell asleep).

[ZOM]

5 stars is important because it determines the item drop rate, I'd say if you want enough stuff by the time you're able to customize your weapons, trying to get 5 stars on most battles surely isn't a bad thing.

Anyways, I can give you a little example on a battle very early In the game where I had a bit of trouble: There's a pack of those wolf type enemies attacking a robot(golem type), said robot has quite high HP and defense, so to kill him quick enough to get a good ranking you can -> initiate battle with a preemptive strike, this'll cause the enemy to be almost staggered -> attack with a RAVAGER(in this case Sazh) to stagger him, now the other enemies should still be attacking him, making it harder for the chain-gauge to sink (this can also be accomplished by using a commander since their attacks prevent a quick cooldown of the enemy's chain gauge, but in this scenario you don't have one), now additionally you could switch to a saboteur to lower the enemy's defense even more and watch how the wolves kill the golem type in a matter of seconds. In the meantime you can switch back to two RAVAGER and concentrate on taking out the trio of drones that appeared since they can pretty much fry Sazh in one combined thunder strike if they come to close.

I agree with you that this system can be, no, it *is* very boring for normal battles, but it's also very well possible to push it up a bit by experimenting.

Another example would be the summon battles; There's a set paradygm pattern to exploit depending on what attacks the summon is doing which greatly helps filling that gestalt gauge.

Also, keep in mind that the game really does get harder later on and you'll be practically forced to change paradigms a lot more.

[Taylor]

Yeah, I've been through there. I was throwing up buffs and debuffs initally, but towards the end I just switched between ravager and medic because it took too long :). I'll see how it goes, I'm enjoying the story so I'm probably going to play it to the end anyway (dare I say a curse that turns you into an attractive water feature is fairly unique).

[Pirate1019]

Sat in for the first 4 hours my roommate played, and this game's abuse of the Datalog is unbelievable. There's a blatant lack of proper exposition in favor of keeping that pace Square Enix claimed was so important. Instead they throw the neglected information into the Datalog, to be read whenever you finally get frustrated with being expected to already be an expert on the world you're in. Or when you get tired of seeing that exclamation mark in the main menu.

[Ex-Cyber]

Can anyone confirm that the US PS3 version has a Japanese voice option? All I can find with Google is a ton of sites echoing the same story from a year ago saying that PS3 would have it and 360 wouldn't for storage reasons, but a year is a long time for a decision like that to stick around (especially when they hadn't actually done the localization).

[ZOM]

(dare I say a curse that turns you into an attractive water feature is fairly unique).

That's a big reason why I kept playing - after wandering around the crystallized fields the game got me hooked, strange thing seeing that I absolutely despise 80% of the decisions SE made for this title... o_0

Sat in for the first 4 hours my roommate played, and this game's abuse of the Datalog is unbelievable. There's a blatant lack of proper exposition in favor of keeping that pace Square Enix claimed was so important. Instead they throw the neglected information into the Datalog, to be read whenever you finally get frustrated with being expected to already be an expert on the world you're in. Or when you get tired of seeing that exclamation mark in the main menu.

'Tis one of the things I don't mind, en contraire, I like it. I'd rather calmly sit down and read all this information than having it spit out from the popstars crew through over the top cutscenes.

Can anyone confirm that the US PS3 version has a Japanese voice option? All I can find with Google is a ton of sites echoing the same story from a year ago saying that PS3 would have it and 360 wouldn't for storage reasons, but a year is a long time for a decision like that to stick around (especially when they hadn't actually done the localization).

JP version = just Japanese (optional subtitles in Japanese)
US version = just English (optional subtitles in English)
EU version = English audio track with multilanguage-subtitles depending on your PS3's language settings (no Asian languages included)

So, short answer: nope

[Meyers07]

above all those things you guys said, it can be argued that Final Fantasy ruins the definition of RPG genre by straying further from RPG aspects as the series goes on, while still labelling them as an RPG. FF are guilty of: Mandatory genre-changes into quick-time events, too much minigames (Gold Saucer is better as a separate game rather than a place without clear plot advancements), out-of-plot, tacked-on bosses (we look at you, blue big guy final boss of IX, and numerous bosses of VII and VIII, plain ridiculous system (Aeris, why?? At least [[MOTHER 3 Spoiler!]]'s isn’t a combatant, so it’s justified. And don’t forget Sephiroth’s world-destroying attack, which is plain ridiculous.), the game wants YOU dead at one of the games (XI online features 18-hour nonstop bossfight, as if cases with EverQuest and numerous korean MMORPG weren’t enough…), removal of basic RPG systems (including magic points, currency, and exp at some of the games…), and butchering of RPG genre that is Final Fantasy XIII (essentially an action game with FF-battle system and little RPG aspects).

Their selling points nowadays are pretty guy/girl character designs, FMV (especially the PSX era), and physics-defying stunts for the sake of cool. Which is why didn’t they make a CGI movies instead (they already had, one being a (botched) sci-fi drama and the other is the continuation of VII, but it’s much fitting there).

I think Udderdude (one of our friends which is a 2D shmup purist) would agree. I have played RPG since Dungeon and Dragons era, and going to many RPGs (Western and Eastern) but never seen such a butchery of genre would happen. Other JRPG (especially most that distributed by Atlus) keeps their RPG systems firmly into their hands though.

[Pirate1019]

'Tis one of the things I don't mind, en contraire, I like it. I'd rather calmly sit down and read all this information than having it spit out from the popstars crew through over the top cutscenes.

It's hard to like a game designed so sloppily that it can't even fit into itself.