Is "bullet hell" really that difficult?

[Ganelon]

You beat Ibara without scoring, though? How did you manage to pull that one off?

I don't follow; I did it by avoiding medals and keeping weapons down to the essentials, same as with Battle Garegga. There's no mechanic that benefits you from increasing the score... Sounds like you're thinking of something from arrange or Black Label instead?

[Skykid]

You beat Ibara without scoring, though? How did you manage to pull that one off?

I don't follow; I did it by avoiding medals and keeping weapons down to the essentials, same as with Battle Garegga. There's no mechanic that benefits you from increasing the score... Sounds like you're thinking of something from arrange or Black Label instead?

I'm guessing he's thinking of life extends.

[clp]

Well, can't say I've played those particular modes/game in any serious way. I just know that what folks often list as tough shooters (e.g. R-Type I & II, Image Fight, Battle Garegga, DAI-OU-JOU, Ibara) didn't take anywhere near 100 hours of total playing time for me (although I did some research on proper techniques to avoid rank and watched some videos on the best boss tactics). Maybe that's because I'm completely focused on survival unlike most players; I won't even pick up a medal unless I'm heading that direction anyway and will use bombs if it's taken me too long to get past a boss pattern.

I have to ask genuinely wheres the fun in 1cc games like ibara and garegga without learning the scoring ? ive never 1cced garegga im upto a c score though which provided a far more satisfying experience than any 1cc ever did , Just curious .

[ncp]

You beat Ibara without scoring, though? How did you manage to pull that one off?

I don't follow; I did it by avoiding medals and keeping weapons down to the essentials, same as with Battle Garegga. There's no mechanic that benefits you from increasing the score... Sounds like you're thinking of something from arrange or Black Label instead?

I'm guessing he's thinking of life extends.

It feels like rank would overwhelm you if you didn't score well enough to suicide. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a low-rank Ibara run.

[Ganelon]

I don't remember seeing any low rank runs for guidance either at the time; I'm not sure what the general opinion on Ibara is now but very few folks liked the game when it came out so that's not surprising. Rest assured it's still bearable at the end even without suicides as frequent as you may get by going for score (although it's definitely tougher than a similar run through Garegga).

I have to ask genuinely wheres the fun in 1cc games like ibara and garegga without learning the scoring ? ive never 1cced garegga im upto a c score though which provided a far more satisfying experience than any 1cc ever did , Just curious .

It sounds like we're opposites then. I guess I've never been into quantitative achievements so I've drawn my line at 1CCs. I know that playing for score involves many times more experience so I respect all the folks who aspire to that. If I ever wanted to seriously compete in scoring, I wouldn't be able to settle for a so-so score with decent knowledge of the nuances; I would have to dedicate at least a thousand hours necessary to learn the game inside and out, and I guess I haven't encountered a shooter yet that I'm motivated enough to do so.

[clp]

Aye thats fair enough , ive 1ccd a fair amount of shooters now but it doesnt even register with me i will always go back to the game to learn the stages and improve score a bit more .

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

shmups r hard

nah

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Bullety hells get allot easier with pratice and the skills you picked up playing one BH can be transfered to another BH, imo moreso then classic shmup types as many patterns in danmaku' are simlar.

The difficulty with bullet hells i've found is that if your just starting the genre or dont regulary play them then they can be brutal as ive found out after a break from shmups of about a month due to my old PC biting the dust that even Edens Aegis on normal kicked my arse lol. (shame i had to use my funds ild saved to buy a new xbox and some caves games to buy a new pc )

[Jeneki]

or something else along the lines of "OH THIS GAME IS A DANMAKU, SO IT MUST BE 100,000,000 TIMES HARDER THAN RAIDEN."

I've run into quite a few people like that in convention game rooms lately. Most recent was with Saturn Sengoku Blade, "I downloaded a Touhou game, this looks easy." From my experience it's not worth the effort trying to explain the differences. I just let them learn the hard way.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

or something else along the lines of "OH THIS GAME IS A DANMAKU, SO IT MUST BE 100,000,000 TIMES HARDER THAN RAIDEN."

I've run into quite a few people like that in convention game rooms lately. Most recent was with Saturn Sengoku Blade, "I downloaded a Touhou game, this looks easy." From my experience it's not worth the effort trying to explain the differences. I just let them learn the hard way.

And by that they downloaded a later touhou shooter and spent a night playing it where they got past the 1st boss, there-fore automatically making them bonafide danmaku experts and every video game they play there-after becomes a pushover just like they were wearing magical socks that gave them +100 to dexererty

or are like this guy posti9ng in the comments sections of this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVWDnb0HYhA

BTW im courous to know how this game on hardest ranks up against caves hardest shooters? (in the vid the bullets that shoot to the middle are aimed bullets)

[LtC]

or are like this guy posti9ng in the comments sections of this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVWDnb0HYhA

BTW im courous to know how this game on hardest ranks up against caves hardest shooters? (in the vid the bullets that shoot to the middle are aimed bullets)

I doubt anyone can even beat it on hardest. The game's way harder than it actually looks like. Unlike the usual BH game, the bullet hitboxes are actually the same as the pixels or maybe even bigger (Or so it feels like). Even on normal this game is bullshit hard.

stupid Prizhm, stupid Zillion beatz, lovely music sync'd with bullet patterns

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I play it one notch under normal as normal still kicks my arse. yea very hard it is, but since ive yet to play caves futari and others etc i was curious to how it matched up against what most ppl consider the hardest danmaku around.

I suppose the the difficulty of ZB on hardest lies more towards the broken due to its been so inhumanly hard. Still i would love to see someone post a vid of them playing in a slighty easier (but still bloody very hard) mode since there isnt really any on you tube atm.

[third_strike]

...the skills you picked up playing one BH can be transfered to another BH...

Then if can 2-all ddp I will can 1cc easily any CAVE no loop game.
OK?
Cool!

[Arvandor]

I've been playing a lot of bullet hell shooters, Cave in particular, over the past 3-4 years. There are many little things, especially when I pick up a new game, that shows me just how far I've come, and what all I can see and navigate more easily and calmly.

ESPgaluda2 is still a kick to the junk. I think it took me a half-dozen credits or so just to get to stage 4, and I haven't made it past the stage 4 boss yet =/ I credit fed through once just to see the rest of the game, and I assure you a simple 1cc is a long LONG ways off, let alone a decent score. If this shit isn't hard enough for you, I think you need to get into something more human competative. Fencing or something.

I think bullet hell is (or more accurately, can be,) rather difficult. It's an odd generalization though, as some bullet hell games are crazy stupid hard, and some are childishly easy. I 1cced Imperishable Night on Normal for example on about my third attempt.

[EPS21]

...the skills you picked up playing one BH can be transfered to another BH...

Then if can 2-all ddp I will can 1cc easily any CAVE no loop game.
OK?
Cool!

Maybe not easily, but that would be a very good foundation for 1cc'ing most Cave games in 1-2 weeks max if you were actively practicing for it.

[Zweihander]

I have yet to play the bullet-hell equivalent of the non-bullet-hell Genesis shmup, Undead Line. Ibara, Mars Matrix, ESPGaluda Arrange mode... all are child's play, in comparison. There's no checkpoints. Three hits and it's back to the starting line for that stage. The game throws the kitchen sink at you. The bosses are monstrous. There's a "power-up" that can KILL YOU. The game is EVIL INCARNATE.

[Kollision]

I tend to find BH games way more difficult. Or maybe they just require more dedication, whatever...

I was able to 1-life clear Gaiares and Undeadline, but I got my ass kicked so much on DoDonPachi on the Saturn that eventually I gave up and moved on... Gonna get back to it very soon, I know it.

[boagman]

At least compared to shooters with a more conservative bullet count?

Many people--especially those whose knowledge of Cave shooters is limited to TLB's--seem to think bullet hell shooters are 100 million times harder than older shooters. But is that really so?

If you gave me a Cave shooter that I've never played before, I could maybe reach the end of stage 2 or halfway through stage 3 (of 5) on my first try.

But if I were to play Truxton II (which I HAVE played) right now, I'd be lucky to witness Stage 2 (of 6)'s boss. As for many other Toaplan shooters, I'd be lucky to reach the second stage due to the amount of snipe shots and other cheap tricks.

I guess the proper phrasing here would be "It is *for me*."

Bullet hell shooters don't just bring a "more is more" attitude with them...they bring a "complete sensory overload is more" attitude with them, and I honestly find them to be pretty ridiculous. You can tell me all day long that my hitbox is just a pixel, and that I'm making it more difficult than it really is, or has to be...but at the end of the day, I don't see a way of successfully maneuvering through such a blatant mess of onscreen garbage.

Now, I'm going to use this word, and everyone from here to Hoboken is going to object to its use, but I'm pretty sure that I want to use it in this way: bullet hell shooters, for lack of a better term, are rather lazy, in my opinion. They're less about design than they are about overloading one's visual sense. I, for one, don't find them very satisfying to play at all, and I've played a *bunch* of them. Most of them seem pretty same-ish to me, especially the Cave entries. They're just not my bag of tea.

I'm not enamored of them...they just seem to be too busy for their own good. Or something.

[chempop]

I've been playing shmups fairly regularly since NES with some big breaks in between my "career". Only this past summer though I've been getting into Cave style BH. At first it was pretty rough, but now I'd good enough that with some consistent practice I can make it to level 4 or 5 without much difficulty (if I'm playing for survival).

I think it really just takes time to pick op the skills needed. Mainly trajectory calculations and tap-tap reflexes. Another huge factor for me was getting used to a seimitsu setup. It has only been a couple months since I got a HRAP EX-SE but now that I'm comfortable with it I've made huge progress.

I still get humiliated by Raizing or Psikyo much more so than Cave despite having years of experience with those two companies.

[apple arcade]

Raiden 4 kicks my ass.

mostly because the weapons suck, but the sniper bullets make it even less fun.