cab shopping! (formerly Astrocity + computer LCD project)

[shubacca]

Hi guys,

I'm new to this forum and arcade cabinets in general. At most I've built & modded a few sticks for various consoles and though interesting, the idea of working on a cab really takes the cake for me.

I have a question that I'm hoping someone can help me with. I'm in the middle of picking up a New Astro City(non-functioning monitor) and I'm curious if you have heard of anyone installing a more massively produced LCD monitor or TV (Asus, Panasonic, etc.) into one of these things. I have a couple of low input-lag monitors in mind and am now just trying to figure out how I'd integrate the wide screen design into the cab (with foam borders maybe?). I'm choosing this option so gaming will be easier on my pathetic set of eyes and because I currently lack the funds to work a real steel machine. The cab will ideally run a console and a PC.

Has anyone considered doing this? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[emphatic]

Is this what you'd want it to look like:



I would do this:

#1. Get the cabinet.

#2. Remove the plastic bezel from the screen and try to make one yourself out of wood, that sits flush with your cabinet body. This just needs to be a flat piece of wood that can be mounted to the cabinet.

#3. Construct a swivel device that holds your monitor in place on #2 that'll allow you to rotate your monitor should you want to.

#4. Make sure the monitor is completely facing you when you're sitting in front of the cab, to avoid a non-perfect viewing angle.

#5. Build a bezel (monitor mask) that hides the non-screen parts of your monitor so the end result looks like in my picture above. You want this part to look really good.

[shubacca]

I would do this:

#1. Get the cabinet.

#2. Remove the plastic bezel from the screen and try to make one yourself out of wood, that sits flush with your cabinet body. This just needs to be a flat piece of wood that can be mounted to the cabinet.

#3. Construct a swivel device that holds your monitor in place on #2 that'll allow you to rotate your monitor should you want to.

#4. Make sure the monitor is completely facing you when you're sitting in front of the cab, to avoid a non-perfect viewing angle.

#5. Build a bezel (monitor mask) that hides the non-screen parts of your monitor so the end result looks like in my picture above. You want this part to look really good.

Protips, emphatic! Thanks! I took woodshop way back in secondary school so I hope I'll be able to come up with something. As of now, this is definitely the best approach.

If anyone else has ideas, please post!

[emphatic]

I hope you'll get a working and good looking solution. Please post some pictures when you have something.

[undamned]

As far as I know the original monitor should already have a rotating frame. If this is the case, just unbolt the bad tube/driver board (google discharging a tube before you touch any wired stuff) and see if the stock frame can accommodate your new screen w/ slight modification. That way you don't have to re-invent a rotating mechanism, all you have to do is come up w/ a way to adapt your screen to the existing rotating frame.
-ud

[jonny5]

As far as I know the original monitor should already have a rotating frame. If this is the case, just unbolt the bad tube/driver board (google discharging a tube before you touch any wired stuff) and see if the stock frame can accommodate your new screen w/ slight modification. That way you don't have to re-invent a rotating mechanism, all you have to do is come up w/ a way to adapt your screen to the existing rotating frame.
-ud

astro city's do NOT have rotate mechs....its just a standard sega frame around the tube and you have to physically remove the montior and turn it to rotate....

although now, re-reading your post im unsure if im misunderstanding you....astros can be rotated, but it involves removing the monitor from the cab....it doesnt have an internal mech for rotating like an e2....

not quite sure how you would mount an LCD to the frame either....because essentially you have the main pcs. of the frame that mount to the top and bottom of the tube....a widescreen LCD wouldnt be big enough vertically to even reach them...although i suppose you could mount it to the supports the opposite way, so the frame would be in the vert(if it was a tube monitor mounted)position for horizontal and vice versa for tate

sorry if my explanation is bad....

your best bet for mounting would probably be to get some kind of articulating/rotateable VESA standard mount and then you could attach that to the bottom pc. of the original mounting system for the monitor in the cab

this is kinda hard to explain without pics to illustrate what i mean

[shubacca]

Would it be possible to remove all the innards including the frame and perhaps build a custom frame out of wood? Bare with me as I've yet to learn about anything related to cab innards. Googled this image:



Can I remove the wider metal frame on the top and bottom of the monitor and fabricate something like shown in this rough drawing I made? :



I know it doesn't look it, but this custom frame-bevel unit would be as square as possible to be rotated. I'm not exactly looking for any full design solutions (though any would be appreciated megalots), I'm just seeing if any red lights/potential problems go off in your heads.

I've also come to the realization that it'd be way cooler to have an actual arcade monitor in there and that my eye discomfort was due to really low refresh rate monitors at the arcade. I'd still like to figure this whole idea out first, and have the option of both down the road!

[emphatic]

That looks exactly how I would go about this.

My guess is replicating the frame outlined in red in the below picture from a sheet of thin MDF would be very sturdy and easy enough to handle to mount your screen onto:



After that you can worry about the cosmetic side, i.e. the Bezel.

[Jack_from_BYOAC]

Copying a little from my post on SRK over to here.

"You could make your own bezel pretty easily to fill in the empty space.

One thing I forsee is that the widescreen monitor you put in there will be quite small I think. I think you could squeeze a 24" monitor in there.



even in letterbox mode the 29" monitor is a little larger.

Also be careful if you do go with a LCD monitor in the vertical position. I have heard that some LCD monitors do not work well at all when mounted vertically. It messes up their viewing angles and the image becomes very dark."

I think you could definitely make a mounting bracket out of wood, and then attach a little rotating mechanism in the middle of it that allowed you to just reach in and turn it just like a desktop LCD monitor. I don't think you would need to buy a complete VESA wall mount. There's got to be something easier. I think maybe if you cut out a slot, and then put some bolts through it to the back of your monitor, and then had a little hole to reach in to turn a wingnut it would work well.

[Fudoh]

the posted chart makes the wrong assumption that a 29" CRT chassis has a 4:3 viewing area of 29". That's not the case. The viewable area is usually around 27" on a 29" machine. Good approach otherwise, but better make an own chart with Excel...

In any case, I'd go for a 16:10 display to replace a 4:3 one, not a true 16:9 display.

[Jack_from_BYOAC]

I used this site for that: http://www.cavecreations.com/tv2.cgi Sadly, it does not allow 16:10 aspect ratio comparisions.

I found one that does, albeit with less info provided. With a 27" viewing area on the 4:3 monitor this is the chart:

[undamned]

Would it be possible to remove all the innards including the frame and perhaps build a custom frame out of wood?

Check out page 2 of this thread:

http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=222115

The frame and bezel is quite simple but looks fantastic.
-ud

[emphatic]

I just found this picture:

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9352/sdc12013u.jpg

I didn't really notice that it had an LCD until someone else pointed it out. Was too busy looking at those stools.

Edit: The picture was really huge, so I removed the tags.

[Devil Soundwave]

Back up a sec. What's wrong with the "non functioning monitor"? Provided the tube isn't hideously burnt, it's not necked and the colour guns aren't shot. I imagine it would work out cheaper and (definately a damn site easier) to just get teh chassis repaired/replaced, then use the standard methods for installing a PC to a 15khz cab...

Surely keeping it original is better than some attempt with wood and LCD? Unless you do a SUPER SLICK job, it'll probably look a little lacking...

Still though - if you do go down the LCD retrofit route, I would recommend trying to fashion some sort of rotate mech (I mean you are starting from scratch after all).

I'll be interested to see the outcome.

[emphatic]

Astrocity + LCD = Atrocity? I really look forward to see the results on this as well.

[shubacca]

I really have no idea what's wrong with the monitor. But I figured if the guy ran & maintained machines at his arcade I could take his word for it. I will investigate!

[jonny5]

Astrocity + LCD = Atrocity? I really look forward to see the results on this as well.

oh man.....thats friggin hilarious emph!!!

[shubacca]

Owner says he might have another Astro with a working monitor.

So hooking up your typical LCD monitor to an Xbox360 is really no problem at all but certainly hooking up an arcade monitor to a 360 is a different story. Bear with me, as I attempt to move into the real arcade monitor realm

Jack_from_BYOAC mentioned on my thread at SRK that there are simple adapters to connect a 360 to the arcade monitor? I've been reading the arcade otaku noob wiki and surfing forums much like this one to figure out as much as I can about hooking this up. Bear with me...I'm pretty excited about learning this stuff...hopefully you can answer some questions I have.


1) Xbox360 games (SFIV, Ikaruga, etc.) need a 31KHz monitor to look pretty. So something like a Sanwa 29PFX-A, or a Tri-sync would ideal? How bad does an xbox game look on a 15k display? An SRK member mentioned I could make a custom 15k RGB cable.

2) What is the relationship between the monitor, chassis, and xbox in this project?

3) Do you know the name of the adapters that make life easier for this hook-up?


Yes, I finally see why everyone I've talked to prefers an actual arcade monitor . lol. Thanks for all your help so far, guys.

[neorichieb1971]

For 15k see the hardware forum for a thread by viletim. All you need is a scart lead from Europe for the 360 to go with it.

For 31k, buy another cab with VGA input. Egret 3 or AWSD will be fine.

For 50k, I'll get you anything you want.

[ckong]

For 15k see the hardware forum for a thread by viletim. All you need is a scart lead from Europe for the 360 to go with it.

+1 Highly recommended.

You really should try to keep the cab and monitor setup original. That way you have the most functionality: console hookup (very easy with the console > jamma adapter of viletim), PC hookup with for instance an arcadevga card or soft15khz and last but not least you still can play the arcade pcb's.

In my opinion the combination of an Astro City with a LCD monitor (and using Mame I suppose) is like cursing in a church. You will never get hold of the original feel of how (almost all) arcade games were meant to look and play.

I hope that you will go for the other offer (cab with working monitor) or try to repair the non-working one. It's almost always a fixable problem on the monitor chassis.

[emphatic]

If you plan on using PS2 and other consoles that can't output 480p, then go with viletims adapter, as it will give you a superb low res signal. Bear in mind though, that if the console can't output 240p (true low res), you will end up with 480i which will give you a flickery image.

My recommendation is the UVC (Ultracade Video Converter), as it supports 640x480 and 1024x768 with minimal hassle (no tweaking of graphic card drivers for MAME etc and gives you a vibrant, crisp image. It can also output to 24kHz, so a dual-sync monitor (like in the Astro City) can display that as well. There is a thread in this section about it, with lots of screenshots.

[Jack_from_BYOAC]

Why would he want to buy another cab for 31khz display? Surely it is cheaper to buy an entire new monitor than to buy an Egret 3 Atomiswave SD. Does the Astro City use a different bolt pattern or something?


If you buy an arcade monitor that supports 31 khz and has a VGA connector on it, then all you would need to do is buy a VGA cable for your Xbox and connect the two. No converter necessary.

[emphatic]

If you buy an arcade monitor that supports 31 khz and has a VGA connector on it, then all you would need to do is buy a VGA cable for your Xbox and connect the two. No converter necessary.

a) most 31kHz monitors have a different curvature than the low/dual ones, so the bezel won't sit right on it
b) sourcing a nice 31kHz monitor that costs less than getting an UVC is not likely
c) installing an UVC = pretty basic, installing a 31kHz = pretty scary/difficult unless you are familiar with that sort of thing

[dmauro]

If the monitor's problem is with the chassis, I highly recommend picking up a 31KHz wei ya chassis and from there it would be easy to get a PC and a console hooked up. My setup is two Astro City cabs with 31KHz chassis with a 360, PC, Wii, Dreamcast, and PS2 all hooked up and it was a hell of a lot easier than what you're talking about. I wrote up a thread about how I did it here:
http://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3661

If you do go the LCD route, make sure to get a good monitor, and go all out on the bezel because if anything is wrong with it, you're going to see the flaws while you're playing your games.

[shubacca]

Sorry, I've been away from my project but I definitely have not forgotten everyone's much appreciated advice. After months of chasing after arcade operators in my city, I finally have another chance to look at a few Astro City and Blast City cabs.

Now the owner is the one showing me the machines but he isn't the one who maintains (or knows anything about) them. Machines are to be sold "as is" and he mentioned that he cannot give me a set of keys/tongues for the locks. Could you guys tell me what I should definitely be looking out for and requesting when I'm picking the right machine? I'm very new to this, I just want to have the right assets to start with.

- How many locks should I make sure he unlocks for me? Are they easy to swap out?
- when machines are sitting in storage for a long time, should I wait longer before judging the monitor's condition?
- Is there a way to tell if whether the monitors are dual or tri-sync from the outside?
- I love both machines equally and am willing to spend more for the Blast. Is it the better choice in my case?
- Any precautions or useful information would be great!

Thanks, guys. I cannot wait to restore one these...original monitor and all