Speaking of R-Type...I just ordered R-Type Final

BUHA · Post by **BUHA** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:32 am

I figured I don't have much to lose with it being on amazon.com for 15 bucks new.

I have Delta and I play it all the time. I always hear how people are dissapointed with Final, but I saw videos on IGN and I think it looks awesome! I really love the other R-Type games, especially Delta.

Just wanted to know everybody's opinion. I tried the search function and it didn't really help. I know there are a lot of people who don't like it, but there are also a lot who do. I'm hoping I will.

SuperNoodle · Post by **SuperNoodle** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:20 am

R-Type Final has kind of the opposite vibe of Delta. Whereas in Delta one's screaming "OHGODGET'EMOFFOFMESWEETJESUS, wow, that was close... AIEEE!" almost constantly, with each level's challenges relentless and inventive, in Final it's kind of, erm, empty.

I don't know if it's excessive slowdown or what, but more often than not, there's piddly to be had on the screen. A few tiny enemies, or maybe two, maybe THREE midsize fellows. Even the big honkin' mommas seem to be on valium: it's almost leisure time on the bosses, even in intense moments.

That's not to say it's easy, though. No, sir: the massive, MASSIVE size of your ship in relation to the size of the playing field really raises the bar on iffiness on navigating the levels and enemies, and many a bullet sneaks around the forces at odd angles, even with Dose fully activated. Not a problem normally; it's a hallmark of R-Type that deaths are common. Whereas in Delta it's "BOOM! Ready, go!" with mere seconds between death and being tossed back into the sharks, what killed Final for me was that it's usually 10-15 seconds before the action picks up after a death; a significant increase.

I think perhaps it's a deliberate design element in the game. Most of how there were 101 ships squeezed in was that, in addition to a coupla dozen different force and bit and missile models, the main distinguishing feature between different models of ships in a family is how many bars the beam cannon charges up on.

Remember how in R-Type our beloved R-9 had the Beam Cannon bar, and no more, but in R-Type 2 the R-9c had it's Wave Diffusion Cannon that could charge up on a second bar if you held down Fire long enough? Most ships have two-bar capability; some go up to three, four, or even 5; I think one oddball has SEVEN bars, each of which take something like 5-10 seconds per bar to charge.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

Yeah, Final is great to look at, but you have too much time to look at it. You have to have real patience, as the game requires you to slowly prod and poke at bosses until they eventually tire of you. Enjoy!

TVG · Post by **TVG** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:56 am

my advice, buy it, play with the default ships til you 1CC it, then you're done.
dont bother with the ship unlocking garbage because it's just that, garbage. 90% of the ships, in essence, are just over/underpowered versions of the R9A, main ship. when you see the requirements..whatever.

it is a pretty enjoyable and atmospheric game apart from that, save for stage 3 which becomes a chore after 20 times, the rest varies from ok to mediocre to great.
its pretty easy too, at least compared to most of shmups, but there's always the higher difficulties if you wanna bother.

BUHA · Post by **BUHA** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:01 am

thanks for the informative replies!

I usually don't mind a slower paced game, that's really why I wanna try this one out. I need a nice change of pace. As long as the difficulty is up there, I'll probably have fun with it.

Keep the replies coming, though!

WarpZone · Post by **WarpZone** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:10 am

I just play it with the invincibility code now, which actually gives the game some better focus (absorbing with the Force) and I don't have to suffer through the pacing problems of checkpoints and "empty" areas.

The best part of the game is actually its narrative, which turned out to be a great way to bring the R-Type story to a close. Picking from a 100 ship roster (and swapping ships between stages) only adds to the idea that the Earthlings are going all-out against the Bydo. However, from a gameplay perspective the extra crafts are obviously superfluous and make the game pretty sloppy to play.

You could enjoy the game as a conclusion to the series, although don't expect Delta.

TVG · Post by **TVG** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:24 am

actually, its not the slow pace most people mind, just the slowdowns.

what's funny is that during the final 3 stages, the game doesnt slow down much at all, and they're great to play.

just get it anyway :p

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:40 am

This only shows me how much I suck at the R-Type series in general....since Final gives me such a hard time...

Danny · Post by **Danny** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:22 am

I really like R-Type Final so I must be the only one on this board, but saying that I'm such a r-type fanboi!

Oh yeah the reason why stage three slows down so much is because of the small details. for example when you shoot a part of the ship down is crumbles away and crases into the city below creating a traffic jam in the crowded city below, good stuff although a little pointless really.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:52 am

R-Type Final is fine. Not the masterpiece everyone hoped for after Delta, but a good and very enjoyable game.

The 101 unlockable ships are really nonsense, though. Some of them are amazingly useless ("Kiwi Berry", anyone?), but that's not the main problem. The main problem is that they couldn't obviously balance the game for all the ships and, sadly, it shows. I wish they'd just have sticked to 3-5 ships and balanced the game for playing with each of them.

Otherwise the game is full of splendid artwork and has lots of nice little touches (like the five variants of stage 2 where you can change the climate). The much talked about stage 3 is a totally classic stage in best R-Type traditon. And the slowdown isn't THAT bad. (Alright, I'm not really someone who minds slowdown a lot and it does feel like the stage plays in slowmotion, but it's smooth and almost feels like it's intended that way. Doesn't hurt the gameplay, IMO.)

Some stages do indeed feel a little "empty", but I think that's only because R-Type Final focuses on creating an eerie athmosphere rather than on frantic action even more than all the previous entries in the series.

Funnily enough, I got the much scowled upon R-Type Final and the (IMO) overly praised Gradius V at the same time and, to my surprise, I ended up giving away my entire playtime to R-Type Final. I'm a big fan of both series and I had expected it to be the other way round. But R-Type Final feels to me like a natural part of the series, while GV doesn't feel like Gradius at all. It's clearly more in the Treasure tradition of shooters than in the tradition of the Gradius series, so in timing and stage design it plays more like a hori sequel to RSG/Iky (minus chaining) than anything else. well, I guess I should have expected that, as not including moai heads and giving the second player a red VicViper instead of LordBritish clearly pointed to the fact that Treasure didn't care much about the history of the series. That's not to say it's a bad game, the opposite is the case. But like it's with pretty much all Treasure games, while I do recognize and admire the craftsmanship that went into it, I have a hard time to actually enjoy the game. I don't hate it, it's just not my cup of tea.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm sick of all those "Gradius V > R-Type Final" posts that keep popping up, as you can't really compare the two of them. The only thing they have in common is that they are hori shooters, but the focus of the games and the style of the gameplay is totally different.

Oh yes, and not being able to skip the cutscenes that appear in the middle of a stage in GV is inexcusable.

PFG 9000 · Post by **PFG 9000** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:00 pm

Hey now, I like the Kiwi Berry.

When I first picked up R-Type Final, I was still pretty new to shooters, and it was the first R-Type that I'd put any significant amount of time into (since then I've played lots of Delta and III, and R-Types should arrive in the mail any day now). I did have a problem with the slow pace of the game at first, but the majestic presentation and the huge variety in ships kept me hooked for a good while.

The Stage 4 boss seems to be hit-or-miss for me. Sometimes I can beat him (her?) the first try, sometimes I have to credit-feed to beat him. But once I reached the fifth stage, I got rather turned-off to the game. I cannot see the logic in distorting the view in a game where precision movement is a necessity. I haven't even picked up the game since then (though I will again within the next few days), but I didn't know until somebody mentioned it here a few days back that the distortion increases with your speed.

The extreme slowdown in Stage 3 is almost inexcusable, but it doesn't really bother me. I hate that stage for many, many other reasons.

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:39 pm

Personally, I think Anchor Force DX was downright Evil for a Force, especially the Yellow Search Laser....that thing swept in both directions twice.

Much love for Hyper Wave cannon and Giga Wave cannon.

llabnip · Post by **llabnip** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:58 pm

I love R-Type Final... maybe my most loved of the series. Mostly because of the atmosphere. It just feels amazingly eerie... music and visuals. I love the slow podding ship that hovers over the cityscape... the slow pace and low enemy count don't bother me at all. I will say that I'm not a huge fan of the series (I much prefer Gradius) but for some reason I find R-Type Final addictive. I normally don't enjoy enjoy unlockables or finding alternate stages/paths, but it somehow works in this game. In any event, it can be had used for US$10 and is really well worth that price. I can see a day when I'll probably tire of the game and maybe I'll go back and really dig into R-Type Delta and R-Types (both of which I own), but it will be long after I get my money's worth out of R-Type Final (I'm at least 20 hours into it now).

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:12 pm

Lots of R-Type Final haters here, but I loved it. Certain stages are a little slow, but its an enjoyable package. My worst gripe is the final boss...and I'll leave it at that.

Stage 5, Dimension Jump is in the top 5 my list of favorite stages...its pure genius. The Giant ship stage was one of the most enjoyable too....funny, from what I've read here on the forums, those are the 2 stages people hate the most. Oh well, to each his own.

For $15 new, its a steal and a bargain. Enjoy.

PFG 9000 · Post by **PFG 9000** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:37 pm

I suppose my previous post makes it sound as though I dislike Final, which is absolutely inaccurate. I think the variable environments in Stage 2 are a fantastic feature that increases the replay value immensely. From what I hear, there's another variable stage later in the game, but I haven't gotten there yet. The brief narrations before each stage combine with the atmosphere and mood of the levels to create a very tense feeling of impending doom...especially on Stage 3. And some of the music is quite well done, most of all the BGM during the Gallery and Bydo Lab menus.

I only paid $13 for a sealed copy of Final, and after playing it, I liked it enough to go grab a second copy to send to a distant friend. If you can find it for less than $25 or so and you're a hori shooter fan, you do owe it to yourself to pick it up. It's not a perfect game, but it IS very enjoyable.

For the record I liked Gradius V quite a lot more, but then, I liked it more than just about ANY release of the past three years or so.

BUHA · Post by **BUHA** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:33 pm

Wow, thanks for all the replies. I didn't expect this many!

It sounds like I'll have fun with it, then. I like the other R-Type games so much I don't see how I couldn't like this one. Also, I'm itching for a new hori shooter. It just seems like they don't make enough of them!

visuatrox · Post by **visuatrox** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:47 pm

I think R-Type final is totally awesome, except for a couple of awful levels. The game gets much better later on, the first few levels gives the game a bad first impression.

(oh and add me to the list of very few people that actually liked R-Type Final better than Gradius V)

BUHA · Post by **BUHA** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:50 pm

In reply to the post above, a lot of games suffer from this, as well. Biohazard Battle's first level? pfft! But the game really picks up from there.

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:39 pm

I like Final, sure some of the ships are too similar or pointless, and the level design isn't the best. But I like it anyway.

Last Guardian · Post by **Last Guardian** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:13 am

I love it. Love the alternative stages and music, methodical pacing and eerie, chilled out atmosphere, let alone the homages (sp) to other games the staff worked on in the past.

Fully agree on the whole Gradius/Treasure thing there mr. Schatten, couldn't have said it better myself.

Nei First · Post by **Nei First** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:37 am

I've always thought it eerily ironic, how Gradius V isn't the "final title", yet it has the refreshing quality, reputation and polish, that a final title of such a legendary and influential series would deserve.
Almost as if it's laughing at the title "r-type final" right in the face.

It's a shame the r-type series is over, it deserves at least one more title. The quality of Gradius V is what R-type final really deserved, and rightly should have been.

Bloodreign · Post by **Bloodreign** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:46 am

As an owner of both R-Type Final and Gradius V, I like them both equally, although I have much work still to be done on Final. Level design isn't the greatest but I like the entire 3rd stage battleship battle, as well as the oddness of the last stage and the silouhettes in the background. Of course I found Delta's last stage to be pretty odd as well. Final did feel slowpaced especially compared to the speedier Gradius V, Final has at least a few different endings from what I understand, plus the last boss fights back (damn Konami and their cheap ploys on their Gradius last bosses), tickle the Gradius V last boss and he dies.

But much love to both series, they are innovative in their own special ways.

dai jou bu · Post by **dai jou bu** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:51 am

Herr Schatten wrote:
Sorry for the rant, but I'm sick of all those "Gradius V > R-Type Final" posts that keep popping up, as you can't really compare the two of them. .

Oh yes you can. Irem just emphasized use of your Force more than Gradius ever did with its Options. However, once Treasure decided to add things you can do to your Options other than having them follow you around and mimicking your firepower, the developers can now decide to do things to the stages (and bosses) that would've never have been possible in previous Gradius games. Never before in the Gradius series where careful manipulation of your Options could spell the difference between surviving or dying. Not only did Treasure make the game feel like R-Type, they also were able to give us nice visuals without much slowdown. Add the Treasure shmup trademark of cuing you to notice something that might kill you, and you end up with a game that (IMO sadly) plays better than R-Type Final.

This just my 2 credits though.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:53 pm

I love Gradius. I hate R-Type.

Yet, somehow, I prefer R-Type Final to Gradius V by a fair margin. I'm well aware that it's not the best in the series, but for some reason I still enjoy it a great deal, while Gradius V, though clearly more polished and an entry into my favorite shooter series, leaves me absolutely cold.

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:27 pm

I was waiting a long time for R-Type Final to come out! When I play the game for the first time, I just say "WOW"! I like Final a lot, I call it better than Delta, but not better than R-Type III for the SNES. I love to unlock all the ships, it was fun. In the end, I spend over 60 hours playing Final and it rocked!

dczx · Post by **dczx** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:10 pm

Everyone who keeps complaining about R-Type Final - so empty, blah blah blah... why don't you try Bydo difficulty? You'll be dodging a lot more bullets

BUHA · Post by **BUHA** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:46 am

Well, the game arrived at my house today so now I can make my own opinions! thanks for all the info, though.

I'm liking it so far but it's still way too early to say what I think of it. Haven't made it past the second level yet!

Last Guardian · Post by **Last Guardian** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:14 pm

Have a good flight Buha.

I'm almost done with SMT: Nocturne (finally) and my Japanese (spare) copy of RTF arrived last week so I'll most likely be playing that, looking for tiny differences and gaining some more familiarity until Mushihimesama comes out.

al138 · Post by **al138** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:15 pm

I think you will like Final in the end, despite its slow pace. There are so many unlockables it should keep you busy for a time.

Now I have a question for you: do you think R-Type Delta is worth $35-$40 used? I've been considering picking up a copy, but for those prices I want it to be all it can be!

Molloy · Post by **Molloy** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:42 pm

R-Type has always been about memorising stages. And that's why they should be short and snappy. Final drags things out way too much so it just gets tedious. Once you have the first 3 levels learnt they become an incredibly bore. And it takes 15 minutes to get through them. You'd have 1 credited the entire first R-Type game in that period of time.