XRGB-3

[Fudoh]

Any chance this makes the optoma HD3000 happy when using PS2?

probably only to the extend which I already posted back on the AVS board. If you remember, I ran the PS2 RGB signal through a standalone Scart to YUV converter and while the problem was reduced, it wasn't completely wiped away. I'm a bit short on time right now, but when I hook up my Optoma the next time, I'll give it a try.

[Konsolkongen]

My friends XRGB2 arrived today. Doesn't work with the Optoma either so i guess that there is a very good chance that the Optoma is faulty. Makes good sense since i also get some strange underscan on the HDMI inputs that neither Fudoh or Emoti0n has experienced

Exactly the same thing happens when using the XRGB2 as it does on the XRGB3. Whenever there is no signal i can get the menu just fine but once there is a picture the screen goes all black but the Optoma still shows "RGB-HV 640x480".

Anyway the 50Hz mode doesn't seem to work with my TV, further testing is needed. So far i have only tried composite and S-video (will resolder the RGB input for EU cables tonight) and the picture is not very stable.

[Fudoh]

My friends XRGB2 arrived today. Doesn't work with the Optoma either so i guess that there is a very good chance that the Optoma is faulty.

I wouldn't go this far. Probably some stupid incompatibility within the fluctuation of the specs. Yesterday I tried a VGA to HDMI converter (different brand than yours) - didn't show any picture with the XRGB-3.

Anyway the 50Hz mode doesn't seem to work with my TV, further testing is needed.

Remind me again which TV you're using ? Sony 1080p LCD ? Won't do 50Hz via VGA. Neither won't most of today's TVs. You need a TV Which would accept 800x600@50Hz PC resolution and accept 720x576 within this range.

By the way: did the Extron interface help with analogue 1080p to your TV ??

[SGGG2]

The colors are messed up when I connect my Saturn via SCART>Adapter>Game In. It's fine via S-video. I doubt it's the adapter. I have another SCART cable on the way, but in the meantime, does anyone have any idea how I could fix this?

http://imgur.com/bOC1Gl.jpg
http://imgur.com/I1sg5l.jpg
http://imgur.com/wsSWgl.jpg

[Konsolkongen]

I wouldn't go this far. Probably some stupid incompatibility within the fluctuation of the specs. Yesterday I tried a VGA to HDMI converter (different brand than yours) - didn't show any picture with the XRGB-3.

You're probably right

Anyway the 50Hz mode doesn't seem to work with my TV, further testing is needed.

Remind me again which TV you're using ? Sony 1080p LCD ? Won't do 50Hz via VGA. Neither won't most of today's TVs. You need a TV Which would accept 800x600@50Hz PC resolution and accept 720x576 within this range.

By the way: did the Extron interface help with analogue 1080p to your TV ??

Sony KDL40W4000 1080p LCD screen. Haven't tested if the Extron will allow for different resolutions but according to instructions on the Extron it only accepts VGA to UXGA. I'll test it some other day right now i got to resolder the RGB input on my friends XRGB2

[Konsolkongen]

Artemio you once said that the picture on your XRGB2 is rock solid. That is not the case here with both S-video and RGB from my Saturn and RGB from MegaDrive and Dreamcast. Would you mind sharing your settings with me?

The RGB in modification was super easy and worked great (of course ;p), and other than the unstable picture it's a very nice machine. No stuttering at all or any retarded shit so far. My Master System converter II works without any problems unlike the XRGB3 where it will only show a picture in B0 mode. My friend also has a RGB modified PC-Engine and i assume it will work just fine as well

[Artemio]

Artemio you once said that the picture on your XRGB2 is rock solid. That is not the case here with both S-video and RGB from my Saturn and RGB from MegaDrive and Dreamcast. Would you mind sharing your settings with me?

I use default settings, there's not much to modify anyway. You can view my results on the youtube videos posted before. Nevertheless, I was talking about arcade pcbs but I did play several systems more on it. I've not had time recently due to work, but I'll continue doing system specific pages at the wiki, and on each adding XRGB-2 and XRGB-3 settings and problems just as I have done so far.

[Konsolkongen]

Ok thanks for clarifying

My friends TV doesn't work with his PC-engine and Neo Geo AES so this will be a huge step up for him and he's crazy about the scanlines

[RGB32E]

The colors are messed up when I connect my Saturn via SCART>Adapter>Game In. It's fine via S-video. I doubt it's the adapter. I have another SCART cable on the way, but in the meantime, does anyone have any idea how I could fix this?

http://imgur.com/bOC1Gl.jpg
http://imgur.com/I1sg5l.jpg
http://imgur.com/wsSWgl.jpg

From the pictures it looks like the Red video is incorrectly wired, and possibly ground!

Have you tried the adapter with any of your other SCART RGB cables and the XRGB?

You could post pictures of under the hood for the saturn cable, and the adapter.

[SGGG2]

I don't have any other SCART cables. My other systems are component or VGA.

Saturn cable

http://imgur.com/GmkI0.jpg
http://imgur.com/qacTC.jpg

SCART adapter, FEMALE

http://imgur.com/Pb2Bb.jpg
http://imgur.com/M3Dh4.jpg

MALE

http://imgur.com/jJoba.jpg
http://imgur.com/AQ53Y.jpg

[akumajo]

some news about firmware

change log.

RGBS -> RGBC

D 入力2 信号方式:
色差 / セパレート / 複合 -> YUV / RGBHV / RGBC

21ピン入力信号方式:
色差 / 複合 -> YUV / RGBC

C=Composite sync.
S=Separate sync.

And OSD Bug fix.

Final Version

i just have to flash, test and confirm to Micomsoft, public final release soon

[darthcloud]

some news about firmware

change log.

RGBS -> RGBC

D 入力2 信号方式:
色差 / セパレート / 複合 -> YUV / RGBHV / RGBC

21ピン入力信号方式:
色差 / 複合 -> YUV / RGBC

C=Composite sync.
S=Separate sync.

And OSD Bug fix.

Final Version

i just have to flash, test and confirm to Micomsoft, public final release soon

Cool, but since it's a english firmware they could use english standard acronym aswell ^^.

RGBS is standard for composite sync where "S" stand for one "S"ync

RGBHV is standard for separate sync.

RGBC that just doesn't mean anything in english....

[RGB32E]

Cool, but since it's a english firmware they could use english standard acronym aswell ^^.

RGBS is standard for composite sync where "S" stand for one "S"ync

RGBHV is standard for separate sync.

RGBC that just doesn't mean anything in english....

+1

Not the best quote, but it is unanimously acknowledged that:

RGB requires an additional signal for synchronizing the video display. Several methods are used:

composite sync, where the horizontal and vertical signals are mixed together on a separate wire (the S in RGBS)
separate sync, where the horizontal and vertical are each on their own wire (the H and V in RGBHV)
sync on green, where a composite sync signal is overlaid on the green wire (SoG or RGsB).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_ ... nent_video

Hmm....

I've seen Extron and Kramer RGB related products refer to RGB as RGBCv when refering to SCART RGB signals (RGB+Composite Video). If Micomsoft were to use RGBC instead of RGBS, they should add a "v" to the end (RGBCv).

http://www.kramerelectronics.com/produc ... sp?pid=365

[darthcloud]

I've seen Extron and Kramer RGB related products refer to RGB as RGBCv when refering to SCART RGB signals (RGB+Composite Video). If Micomsoft were to use RGBC instead of RGBS, they should add a "v" to the end (RGBCv)

No, because D2 RGB input don't support Composite video as sync unlike the front RGB21 one.

So it's must be RGBS at least for D2 input

RGBCv would be fine for the front one I guess.

[Fudoh]

No, because D2 RGB input don't support Composite video as sync unlike the front RGB21 one.

It does. Setting 7.1 allows for Component/RGBHV/RGBs and with the RGBs setting RGBCv works fine. I have my Saturn with original Sega RGB cable (which uses Composite video) running on this port.

[Sabishii Hito]

No, because D2 RGB input don't support Composite video as sync unlike the front RGB21 one.

It does. Setting 7.1 allows for Component/RGBHV/RGBs and with the RGBs setting RGBCv works fine. I have my Saturn with original Sega RGB cable (which uses Composite video) running on this port.

How'd you manage that? Hacked a DB15 connector onto it?

[darthcloud]

No, because D2 RGB input don't support Composite video as sync unlike the front RGB21 one.

It does. Setting 7.1 allows for Component/RGBHV/RGBs and with the RGBs setting RGBCv works fine. I have my Saturn with original Sega RGB cable (which uses Composite video) running on this port.

Oh didn't knew that, only tried once but it was trough my switcher. Never tried directly on my xrgb :S

[Fudoh]

Just a simple adapter cable from Female Scart to SubD15 + RCA Audio.

[Strider77]

My sony PVM has a VGA plug on the back labeled as "digital RGB".... what is that exactly?

I was wondering if my PVM could be hooked up to the XRGB3 using the XRGB3's low res output option?

[Fudoh]

I was wondering if my PVM could be hooked up to the XRGB3 using the XRGB3's low res output option?

should work - one way of the other. The question is what you expect from it ?

[RGB32E]

My sony PVM has a VGA plug on the back labeled as "digital RGB".... what is that exactly?

I was wondering if my PVM could be hooked up to the XRGB3 using the XRGB3's low res output option?

I've tried the 15kHz 320x224 output from the XRGB in B0 mode on my PVM-2030 and described the outcome earlier in this thread... if you don't turn on Dot_by_Dot, you will get some horrible scaling (rows of pixels in the middle of the screen will not be displayed.

I don't know why Micomsoft even added the 15kHz output, as it isn't a passthrough! I could see the 640x400 mode being somewhat useful for 24kHz monitors, but even then, the B0 scaling artifacts might be fugly at that low of resolution.

Which PVM do you have? The digital RGB input is likely on a DB9, not a HDDB15 (VGA connector). Also, the digital RGB input probably does not accept analog RGB in general, unless sony added a pin to switch the functionality....

[Fudoh]

I don't know why Micomsoft even added the 15kHz output, as it isn't a passthrough!

Most likely to downconvert D2 (480p) sources for 15khz-only monitors. I can hardly imagine someone using the XRGB-3 for this since therey are way better devices out there to handle this kind of job.

[SGGG2]

Ugh, blue and green were mixed up, and the ground was incorrectly wired on the adapter cable. Why do people sell these things without testing? Can someone tell me what's going on with the Saturn cable? RGB is wired correctly, but there are cables wired incorrectly or missing.

YELLOW: Wrong spot or missing
RED: Correct (or assumed to be)

http://imgur.com/rS9Vt.jpg
http://imgur.com/CvQuN.jpg

EDIT: Fixed
http://imgur.com/1Q1Mm.jpg

[Fudoh]

They're all correct. Scart Pins 8 and 16 are telling the TV which signal to use. You don't need these on the XRGB. Pin 4 is Audio Ground, Pin 18 is Blanking Ground. You can ground the cable every way you like. Nothing wrong there.

[Strider77]

I wanted to use it mostly for the ease of cabling and set up. I have all my (low res) systems hooked up to my XRGB3. Eveytime I want to play a game tate'ed on my PVM right now i have to move the system over to the PVM and hook it up.

I was eventually gonna buy a Scart extension cable to get around the system moving. But if the XRGB3 outputs it in low res and it looks good then it would be easier use the splitter I have now with a VGA cable that I have now also and run it into the PVM. It would just be easier for me to do this set up wise. But that is only if it still looks nice afterwards.

Then on the other hand it would also be nice for forcing 480i or 480p signals into low res without using on of my emotia units.

Like I said I don't know the results I'll get picture wise using this feature of the XRGB3 on a PVM. If it is good then I would be tempted to use it for the 360 also via component or VGA into the XRGB3.

I only use the XRGB3 in it's line doubler mode, I hate the scaler in it. It was my impression the dot by dot setting was only for use with scaler? Is this not the case?

Some of the settings have a VERY slight effect that seem more major on a lot of you guys set up (that sounds like really bad grammer but you get it). I think that is due to me using a Sony HD CRT instead of a LCD or Plasma. The LPF for instance does not cause a startling blur on my TV, except for 480p signals it's terrible. I also don't notice any screen noise with the PS2 via component unless it's 480p.... I haven't really played anything in 480p on PS2 via an XRGB3 except TF6 and that is only b/c it won't boot on a PS3 in 480p.

I haven't spent alot of time with my DC in 480p via the XRGB3 yet either. I just in the past 3 weeks added a switch to my DC's VGA box for low res and high res so I could hook it up into the XRGB3's rear RGB port. Now I don't have to unplug anything for either.... but I have been playing mostly low res so far.

The digital RGB input is likely on a DB9, not a HDDB15 (VGA connector)

you're right on that.... and it's a PVM 2130QM

[Niraflen]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could comment on using an ArcadeVGA's arcade monitor output with the D2 input (in RGB mode) of the XRGB-3 (B1 mode / scanlines) with a standard VGA cable. The ArcadeVGA on the arcade-monitor output is supposed to output 1V (except for a 5V on pin 9 / keyway) and HV sync when unmodified, but the wiki mentions that signals >0.7Vpp need to be attenuated. Has anyone had the opportunity to safely use the ArcadeVGA on this input without any further adjustments? If so, does the XRGB-3 correctly process the various resolutions that the ArcadeVGA puts out (asking since I've been reading on these boards that it doesn't always play friendly with real PCBs even when correctly attenuated)? Thanks to any who can clear this one up.

[Fudoh]

ArcadeVGA: I tried a long time ago. The picture is a little bit bright since the input termination of the back-RGB port is 75ohm only, but this can be regulated using the internal brightness/contrast settings - no problem. The resolutions are not the problem, you just have to make sure that weird output frequencies like 54Hz on the Seibu games are converted to 59,94Hz on the PC.

[Niraflen]

Thanks for confirming that Fudoh.

Another issue I've been puzzling over is whether there's a way to successfully get vertical scanlines (like a rotated CRT) on a horizontal LCD for top-down oriented games from the XRGB-3 B1/scanline mode (whether for ArcadeVGA, consoles or PCBs). (As far as the ArcadeVGA goes, I'm not including MAME scanline overlays for reasons related to resolution scaling with the ArcadeVGA.) I know the XRGB-3 technically has a setting for vertical scanlines, but I saw the screencaps in this thread and it mostly just looked like poor banding. I reviewed the Yokotate article, but since the Holo3DGraph only accepts interlaced input, the output of a B1 XRGB-3 shouldn't be accepted even with a VGA/component transcoder. I suppose any video capture card that could take the VGA output from the XRGB-3 would suffice as long as you could just rotate the output via the capture software or the video card driver and then connect that computer to the VGA (or DVI/HDMI) input of the LCD instead of the XRGB-3, but is there a specific (and sub $100) solution that could do this while introducing negligible delay? (Admittedly I could also be misunderstanding something about the XRGB's video output itself and be completely off course here.)

Thanks again to anyone who may have a solution to this particular problem.

[Fudoh]

You can do vertical scanline overlays with any of the Blackmagic capture cards. Those have an input and live output. There's no delay and you don't have to use the computer's display to play... You have a small app running in which you can load any overlay graphics you want and they're applied live to the videogame's signal.

[Niraflen]

This part has me confused. I reviewed the Intensity Pro manual and the "Custom Video Overlay w/ 360" and the nfg thread, and I see how it works with the HD sources, and should technically also work with composite, s-video and component sources (through the breakout box), but you mentioned it doesn't work with 240p material. Doesn't this mean that the XRGB-3 in B1 mode (and anything that's been connected to it whether console/PCB/ArcadeVGA) would be out of the picture for vertical use? Or would I need to then shut off the scanline emulation on the XRGB-3 and introduce something to upscale from 240p to an acceptable resolution (probably 720p since it's an even multiple) which the Intensity could then overlay without lag?

Does this also I would need to run any top-down games in yoko rather than attempting to rotate a tate image via a capture card?

Sorry for the continued questions.