shmup lecture!

nullpointer · Post by **nullpointer** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:02 pm

Hi again shmupsters,,

By a strange twist of fate I am giving a small lecture/talk on Shmups at this years Screenplay festival in Nottingham (UK). I've got a short outline of what i'm going to try and cover and wondered if you guys could have a look and see if i'm missing anything vital.
The outline is below, and please note that Im looking for any other broad aspects I should touch rather than specifics :like, you havent mentioned pulstar etc

Ta for any input!!

and of course shmups.com is gonna get a big plug!

History:

Arcade heritage: Space invaders - defender etc, different appeal to hardcore/casual
console/arcade comparisons

The formula: easy to play, hard to master. Established format but with opportunity for expression in gameplay and design

GAMEPLAY:

Playing to Score: A dying approach to gaming, repeat play, recorded replays (DVDs), community & strategy

Score systems: Chaining, Proximity, multipliers etc

Puzzle Elements: Ikaruga,Psyvariar,RSG

DESIGN:

Artistry: From traditional (1945-IBARA) to alternative (Guwange-Shikigami) to abstract (Asteroids-ABA/Psyvariar)

2D/3D: Still a haven for 2d design, but with increasing 3d elements

As Art: ABA games, Rez, Ikaruga (high)// Shiki, Cotton, Dangun (anime/toon)

DEVELOPMENT:

Production team sizes/techniques, still possible for indie development.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:07 pm

A shmups lecture at a screenplay festival? How'd you manage to book that? Well, no matter, it definitely ought to be an intereating venture, you'll hafta tell us how it goes.

As far as other stuff you might want to add, methinks you've covered most of the important stuff: how long will the lecture last? If you've only got a short amount of time to work with you might not want to spread yourself too thin.

postman · Post by **postman** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:37 pm

Collectability: Building a collection by chasing down high priced prizes such as Radiant Silvergun and Sapphire, and ordering doujin shmups from obscure Japanese websites.

Technology: Internet rankings, working closely with websites to upload scores or play online.

That's cool you are doing a speech on shmups. If you write the whole thing out (it sounds like you are just going using notes......) can I read a copy?

And what exactly is a Screenplay festival?

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:49 pm

Sounds interesting. I would be even more interested to see what kind of reception you receive. If you find the time please post when all is said and done and let us know how it went. Good luck!

Post by **Ghegs** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:11 pm

Better yet, have somebody videotape the event and upload the whole thing for all of us to enjoy.

Even if I already know this stuff, it's still interesting to hear it with a more "scientific" approach.

nullpointer · Post by **nullpointer** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:59 pm

yeah postman, the collectability thing is good.

I suppose this can extend the the collectible nature of replays and dvds..
Does anyone know of any other game genres that have commercially produced replay dvds? I think its one of the defining aspects of shmup stuff. I know that i'm always hunting down replays etc.
Id still like to get hold of the vtf double ika replays where he shows his hands etc..

The scoring thing i'm gonna cover under the community/strategy aspects.

And yep, of course.. i will post up the docs when i've done it and if theres any film i'll let you know too!.

Screenplay is just a videogames festival they have in nottingham, its not huge but its been pretty good over the last few years, they are in a new venue this year so i dunno what it will be like. Theyve got a talk from the guy who wrote jet set willy and manic miner though (Spectrum classics) and theyve had jeff minter and other cool people come and talk..

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:09 pm

Yeah I'd really like to see a video of the lecture if you can arrange that!

Otherwise: maybe some indepth on different styles of shmups: Manic, strategic, memorisable (yeah I know that's a poor list, but I think you get the point)

In that matter also covering differences between hori's, verti's and the stuff?
Both have different styles in many cases. I dunno.

Anyway, I repeat my request for some sort of transcript/video/audio of your lecture....

Post by **Ghegs** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:10 pm

nullpointer wrote: Does anyone know of any other game genres that have commercially produced replay dvds? I think its one of the defining aspects of shmup stuff. I know that i'm always hunting down replays etc.

Fighters. A Virtua Fighter 4 DVD was just recently released and more than likely there are several Street Fighter DVDs out there. Collections from competitions (like Evo2004) are common, though I don't know if they count as commercialy produced.

Leeram · Post by **Leeram** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:40 pm

Is there a web site or something for Screenplay?

Cheers

Leeram

Blue Lander · Post by **Blue Lander** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:17 pm

This might fall under the "arcade heritage" part, but one thing I've always tried to impress upon people is that shmups are the last surviving genre from the beginning of arcade games. Video games have changed quite a bit over the past 30 years, but the "essence" of those original arcade games is kept alive in shmups and nowhere else. The idea of playing for high score and trying to refine and perfect your skills in a game is a foreign idea to modern genres. I guess one could argue that it exists in 1 on 1 fighting games, but in those you're training to fight against a human opponent (in a tournament or something) rather than a computer controlled enemy. The best Street Fighter II (or whatever) player isn't somebody who can get the highest score and win the 1 player game, it's the one who can beat any other human player.

alpha5099 · Post by **alpha5099** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:41 pm

If you're going to have something about puzzle elements in shmups, you gotta mention Twinkle Star Sprites.

On a similar note, perhaps something about rank. All the complicated sets of implicit rules for managing rank. It seems to me if you're going to pay homage to new takes on novel gameplay systems, you have to salute Raizing and their insanely complex and (mostly, IMO) elegant rank systems.

vek · Post by **vek** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:34 pm

Leeram wrote:Is there a web site or something for Screenplay?

Cheers

Leeram

http://www.screenplay.org.uk/

i assume this is it, unless nottingham has 2 identically named videogame festivals

i'm not far away at all, in derby, so might pop along if i can, sounds good!

Hortinstein · Post by **Hortinstein** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:34 pm

i have the ikaruga appreciate DVD do they show anyones hands in that...

and Btw i think its really cool u are doing a lecture on this. I would love to hear it...especially the parts about ikaruga as art, since that has some of the best art direction in any game i have seen

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:40 am

This is really neat, I wish I could go see.

Hortinstein you have the Iky Appreciate DVD but you don't know if you can see the players' hands??
I have it too, and I've watched it start to finish several times, and I can say for sure it doesn't show the players' hands...

I have a double-play replay (downloaded) which is a video with yoko aspect ratio, and shows the left hand to the left of the gameplay screen, and right hand on the right...

Zhon · Post by **Zhon** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:56 pm

Hrmm, a bit late here, but do you still need the double play vids with hands? ikaruga.co.uk has them

Guardians Knight · Post by **Guardians Knight** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:09 pm

so are you a games journo or something Nullpointer? also is it possible for us plebs to go and see you perform?

LUNardei · Post by **LUNardei** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:08 am

We want (sooner or later) the complete text!

postman · Post by **postman** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:39 pm

Screenplay page updated:

http://www.screenplay.org.uk/

I want to play pavement Pong sometime in my life!

Any plans to somehow record your speaking, Null? And do you have everything prepared already, or are you last minute like me?

postman · Post by **postman** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:40 pm

Looks like the festival ends today.............how'd it go?

nullpointer · Post by **nullpointer** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:34 pm

Hi gang...

Well the talk seemed to go quite well.
I ended up doing a gameboy concert the night before that went on till 3am so i was pretty tired.. However there was a reasonable turnout..
50-100 people.... and the talk went well.

I think i might have bored some of them a bit while covering scoring systems but they all sat up in their seats when i backed the talking up by showing clips of gradius v at loop 31, saurians psyvariar runs and VTFs double play clips (with hands showing). I ended up talking about doujin stuff andhow shmups are still a valid indie geming ganre etc.
Overall i was quite pleased.

We had a load of consoles around running stuff like gradiusv (on a big plasma!!) ikaruga in tate and old skool stuff like twinbee, uridium, thunderforce and tempest2000 etc. People seemed amazed that you could tate a tv (more amazed than the game itself) and a lot of people were lured away by the original star wars cockpit cab we had..

I've made the talk into a html stylee article that i'm gonna post on my new site (when i get it running fully) so I will let you knwo when that happens..

Hey, i even had the world record holder for galaxians in the audience, which was pretty funny... and had a few hints about doing a similar talk somewhere else.. but we'll seee....

I'd have to tear myself away from worldofwarcraft to do that though.!!!
(damn this addictive but equally grindy mmorpg)

nullpointer · Post by **nullpointer** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:27 pm

Ok I got a copy of my talk online.
its at http://www.codespace.co.uk under the articles section.
Im sure its full of speeeling mistaks. But I thought some of you would be interested. I know it isnt conclusive but it covers most major shmuppy aspects.. anyway check it out..

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:00 pm

Sounded like fun.

As for the article, since when was Dodonpachi the first manic shmup??

nullpointer · Post by **nullpointer** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:24 pm

yeah, yeah ok....
I know there are gonna be some inconsistencies and arguable points.
So DP isnt the first manic, but it kind of represents the style very visibly and at a reasonably early period. Hell even if there are a load more earlier manics i dont really have time to list them all.. but yr right and i will go through and ammend the talk sometime..
so what is the first iconic manic?

Ord · Post by **Ord** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:58 pm

nullpointer wrote:yeah, yeah ok......
so what is the first iconic manic?

I would put Batsugun as being the first manic shooter. Toaplans last game. When Toaplan shut it's doors some staff started their own company - Cave.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:22 pm

Yeah, Batsugun is generally recognized as the one.

I totally understand though that you only had time to point out the most highly regarded shmups to include.

uwfan · Post by **uwfan** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:39 pm

Ganelon wrote:Sounded like fun.

As for the article, since when was Dodonpachi the first manic shmup??

Dodonpachi was possibly the first "true" and "pure" manic shmup, it brought everything together in one game.
After Dodonpachi the shmup genre would never be the same again.