I'm still pretty new to the genre, but..

[NR777]

See I don't understand this, how you guys would say platformers, even though they have score, you ignore it. You would think since you treat it with such respect in shmups you would in platformers too, right, I mean it's still a score. This is exactly why my not treating score as some holy thing isn't so weird, because I'm sure none of you (or the large majority of you) don't play platformers for score, yet for those who do, that's just one more option. Same exact thing with shmups, bitchesss.

Ok, now you're just being antagonistic and stupid.

[BrightSuzaku]

im working on a pop up for the forum thats a black and white swirly picture all ppl need to do is look into the center

Will it make me any better at scoring? :D

Also, playing Raiden Fighters and Raiden IV again. Wow, I had no idea how refreshing this would feel...! Thanks, Raiden, for making my day. Lol.

[rockyraccoon5]

You know, I keep trying at Mars Matrix and while it's ok I'll never understand the appeal of bullet hells, I think. For one thing they're.. well mostly score-based, it seems. I guess because of this they decide to out power-up systems entirely and focus on just shooting stuff. The big appeal of this genre for me is when I'm shooting tons of shit at OTHER things, not when they're getting shot at me. I like getting screen-wide lasers and just destroying ships. Bullet hell, it's like, "Haha dodge this fucker." People do exaggerate their difficulty I think, because just like anything else it's conquerable with perseverance, I just prefer the early-90s styled games, I guess. Those are the kinds of games I will eventually play for score, because they're realistic to do, instead of balls-bustingly difficult.

[EinhanderZwei]

You know, I keep trying at Mars Matrix and while it's ok I'll never understand the appeal of bullet hells, I think. For one thing they're.. well mostly score-based, it seems. I guess because of this they decide to out power-up systems entirely and focus on just shooting stuff. The big appeal of this genre for me is when I'm shooting tons of shit at OTHER things, not when they're getting shot at me. I like getting screen-wide lasers and just destroying ships. Bullet hell, it's like, "Haha dodge this fucker." People do exaggerate their difficulty I think, because just like anything else it's conquerable with perseverance, I just prefer the early-90s styled games, I guess. Those are the kinds of games I will eventually play for score, because they're realistic to do, instead of balls-bustingly difficult.

Haha dodge this fucker.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

You know, I keep trying at Mars Matrix and while it's ok I'll never understand the appeal of bullet hells, I think. For one thing they're.. well mostly score-based, it seems. I guess because of this they decide to out power-up systems entirely and focus on just shooting stuff. The big appeal of this genre for me is when I'm shooting tons of shit at OTHER things, not when they're getting shot at me. I like getting screen-wide lasers and just destroying ships. Bullet hell, it's like, "Haha dodge this fucker." People do exaggerate their difficulty I think, because just like anything else it's conquerable with perseverance, I just prefer the early-90s styled games, I guess. Those are the kinds of games I will eventually play for score, because they're realistic to do, instead of balls-bustingly difficult.

like what the others say its all cool as long as youre having fun, if you ever want delve into shmups abit deeper and play for score or 1cc thats even better since you'll probably be glad you did and continue playing for 1cc and score. If you want to ease yourself into shmups try 1ccing some of the (relativly) easy shmups, shmups which will only take a couple of weeks of play to 1cc it. (tip read a good strategy guide and learn the shmup's game mechanics, it makes the world of difference if you know how a shmup ticks)

[rockyraccoon5]

You know, I keep trying at Mars Matrix and while it's ok I'll never understand the appeal of bullet hells, I think. For one thing they're.. well mostly score-based, it seems. I guess because of this they decide to out power-up systems entirely and focus on just shooting stuff. The big appeal of this genre for me is when I'm shooting tons of shit at OTHER things, not when they're getting shot at me. I like getting screen-wide lasers and just destroying ships. Bullet hell, it's like, "Haha dodge this fucker." People do exaggerate their difficulty I think, because just like anything else it's conquerable with perseverance, I just prefer the early-90s styled games, I guess. Those are the kinds of games I will eventually play for score, because they're realistic to do, instead of balls-bustingly difficult.

like what the others say its all cool as long as youre having fun, if you ever want delve into shmups abit deeper and play for score or 1cc thats even better since you'll probably be glad you did and continue playing for 1cc and score. If you want to ease yourself into shmups try 1ccing some of the (relativly) easy shmups, shmups which will only take a couple of weeks of play to 1cc it. (tip read a good strategy guide and learn the shmup's game mechanics, it makes the world of difference if you know how a shmup ticks)

Which shmups would these be, or am I asking something highly redundant that's got its own topic around here?

[TrevHead (TVR)]

im working on a pop up for the forum thats a black and white swirly picture all ppl need to do is look into the center

Will it make me any better at scoring?

if you stare at this for 15 minutes while wearing a tin hat and singing abba songs, yes it will

[TrevHead (TVR)]

You know, I keep trying at Mars Matrix and while it's ok I'll never understand the appeal of bullet hells, I think. For one thing they're.. well mostly score-based, it seems. I guess because of this they decide to out power-up systems entirely and focus on just shooting stuff. The big appeal of this genre for me is when I'm shooting tons of shit at OTHER things, not when they're getting shot at me. I like getting screen-wide lasers and just destroying ships. Bullet hell, it's like, "Haha dodge this fucker." People do exaggerate their difficulty I think, because just like anything else it's conquerable with perseverance, I just prefer the early-90s styled games, I guess. Those are the kinds of games I will eventually play for score, because they're realistic to do, instead of balls-bustingly difficult.

like what the others say its all cool as long as youre having fun, if you ever want delve into shmups abit deeper and play for score or 1cc thats even better since you'll probably be glad you did and continue playing for 1cc and score. If you want to ease yourself into shmups try 1ccing some of the (relativly) easy shmups, shmups which will only take a couple of weeks of play to 1cc it. (tip read a good strategy guide and learn the shmup's game mechanics, it makes the world of difference if you know how a shmup ticks)

Which shmups would these be, or am I asking something highly redundant that's got its own topic around here?

just look at the never 1cced a game thread, theres also plenty of other threads to read aswell if u use the search function (it can be a pain to use but try searching for eather blue wish resurrection / BWR or BWR+ since this is a freeware cave like shmup that is very noob friendly and many ppls 1st 1cc including me)

[rockyraccoon5]

I liked Blue Wish Resurrection Plus. Great music, tons of blowing up stuff. I didn't finish it though, my computer crashed. I guess I might try that one. Still though, anything... less bullet hell-ish?

[drunkninja24]

You know, I keep trying at Mars Matrix and while it's ok I'll never understand the appeal of bullet hells, I think. For one thing they're.. well mostly score-based, it seems. I guess because of this they decide to out power-up systems entirely and focus on just shooting stuff. The big appeal of this genre for me is when I'm shooting tons of shit at OTHER things, not when they're getting shot at me. I like getting screen-wide lasers and just destroying ships. Bullet hell, it's like, "Haha dodge this fucker." People do exaggerate their difficulty I think, because just like anything else it's conquerable with perseverance, I just prefer the early-90s styled games, I guess. Those are the kinds of games I will eventually play for score, because they're realistic to do, instead of balls-bustingly difficult.

Bullet hells are realistic to do too if you just pay attention. Almost sounds like you'd be happy just playing No Bullet mode in DOJ-BLEX or something.

[Ebbo]

I liked Blue Wish Resurrection Plus. Great music, tons of blowing up stuff. I didn't finish it though, my computer crashed. I guess I might try that one. Still though, anything... less bullet hell-ish?

You should try Guxt and Cho Ren Sha 68K, both are freeware.

[rockyraccoon5]

I liked Blue Wish Resurrection Plus. Great music, tons of blowing up stuff. I didn't finish it though, my computer crashed. I guess I might try that one. Still though, anything... less bullet hell-ish?

You should try Guxt and Cho Ren Sha 68K, both are freeware.

Cho Ren Sha is another I started but didn't finish. I should really just pick something then stick with it until it's done.
Guxt is from Pixel isn't it? I <3 Cave Story so I might try it soon.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

hmmm off the top of my head blazing lasers for the pc engine i hear is easy. Recca for the NES is a bit harder but if you read the guide and have the right weapons equiped its alot easier then many folk make out. the freeware Demolition gunner isad is very easy to 1cc. Atm im working on 1ccing the nes gradius while not a very easy shmup its a good place to start for shmups of that type.

Best to check the proper threads that talk about it

BTW Some ppl recomend that its best to not bother with easy shmups and go striaght into the harder shmups. In the end of the day its up to you what you want to play but i just thought i would mention it cos some1 else probably will

If you want a piss easy shmup genetos is a very good choice (i 1cced normal and programmer difficulties 1st try)

on the other hand i do like to also play shmups that never end so cant be 1cced as they just get harder and harder. fun for scoring or just playing casually / practice, all freeware: nomltest fs, rrootage and many other kenta cho's games, reincarnation.

Edit: most ppl consider a proper 1cc to be a shmup with default settings, although it doesnt stop you from trying out different mode though, its just if you say youve 1cced a certain game it means you did it at defualt settings even if defualt is easy or hard. plus different versions of the same game may have different default settings making everything more complex

[rockyraccoon5]

I fucking love rRootage, it's my favorite freeware game not named Cave Story or Meat Boy. Blazing Lasers the shmup I'm focusing on most right now, along with Gate of Thunder. They both seem pretty manageable and if I ever do 1cc something, I think one of those two will be my first.

[doctorx0079]

I think I'm already hopelessly addicted. I love Blazing Lasers, Gate of Thunder, M.U.S.H.A., Ikaruga, Space Megaforce...
The funny thing is while I suck at these games and don't see myself finishing them soon, I still love just persevering through them. I'm not even one of those "hardcore" gamers who thinks the more difficult a game is, the better, I just like watching stuff blow up in the most ridiculously exaggerated ways possible. I've seen some people on other forums say if you don't 1cc everything then you're not doing it right, but I think that's kind of an elitist way of thinking. It's like if you're enjoying yourself, then who cares, honestly? This is Whit gaming is all about, high scores be damned.

Why start a thread about this? I don't get the point of telling us this.

<injoke> This is the thread ever. </injoke>

[t0yrobo]

You know, I keep trying at Mars Matrix and while it's ok I'll never understand the appeal of bullet hells, I think. For one thing they're.. well mostly score-based, it seems. I guess because of this they decide to out power-up systems entirely and focus on just shooting stuff. The big appeal of this genre for me is when I'm shooting tons of shit at OTHER things, not when they're getting shot at me. I like getting screen-wide lasers and just destroying ships. Bullet hell, it's like, "Haha dodge this fucker." People do exaggerate their difficulty I think, because just like anything else it's conquerable with perseverance, I just prefer the early-90s styled games, I guess. Those are the kinds of games I will eventually play for score, because they're realistic to do, instead of balls-bustingly difficult.

For what it's worth the power up system in Mars Matrix is tied directly to the scoring. It's the only game I know of that works like that, most bullet hell games have the standard items to collect. Just stick with what you like, there's plenty of people that prefer the earlier games to the new hotness.

[chempop]

For what it's worth the power up system in Mars Matrix is tied directly to the scoring.

Yup, same with Radiant Silvergun and Batsugun (to a lessor degree).

How I play all depends on the mood I'm in, sometimes I need to bare the frustration in order to accomplish a set goal while sometimes I can just feed my way till the credits and lay back and enjoy the ride. When I play for fun I usually play like crap, when I play with focus, intent, and perseverance I am rewarded for my hard work (or chore, as it has been put). Feeling like it is a chore isn't all bad, like doing the dishes and cleaning the kitchen, after its all done with you usually feel pretty darned good - just like shmups... I suppose you can enjoy them too if you must.

[dpful]

Rockyracoon,
if you kept at mars matrix or radiant silvergun, you'd develop an appreciation for scoring I bet, since it equals survival. RSG was probably the first game I took seriously in that regard, and it was just to get by guns bigger. That's the way I play mars matrix, too, but I usually don't even note the score, just what power level I got my laser to.

I guess, in other games, raiden for example, my "score" is how far I can get plus how big I can get my guns.

[rockyraccoon5]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around Mars Matrix. I think I figured out that the piercing cannon is more useful in most situations, unless it actually isn't and I'm fooling myself. Works wonders for me, though. As for the mosquito, Rob tried to give me tips on when to use it, but I still don't entirely get it. Something about collecting the gold cubes while using the mosquito to keep up your invulnerability?

I decided to actually try to play for score a while ago with Soldier Blade. It actually does get somewhat more fun when you're trying to go for the higher numbers, I'll grant you that. However, I think this is one other reason I like the early 90's shmups more. They come in these manageable formations you need to memorize. Once they're shot, that's it, nothing else to do, giving you somewhat of a possibility to actually get some sort of "perfect" score if you're good enough. (I... think?) Bullet hells, on the other hand, they seem to really like throwing shit at you to just collect from the fallen enemies. Mars Matrix has those gold cubes, Touhou has the score point card thingies, and it's like they throw so much of these things at you, it's kinda.. just I dunno. I suppose that's why playing them for score is fun because it's so damn chaotic, it's just a matter of getting better at collecting all of them or something. Regardless, I think my goal now is 1cc'ing...... something. Could be fun. Hell it's kinda what I'm aiming for to begin with, what with simply restarting the game almost every time I die. I don't like failure too much for some reason. x_X

[clp]

I love it when people say they dont like failure because what do they do then? stop playing blame the game and walk away cant get much more failure than that .

[rockyraccoon5]

I love it when people say they dont like failure because what do they do then? stop playing blame the game and walk away cant get much more failure than that .

Is this supposed to make any sense? Because it doesn't.

[EPS21]

I love it when people say they dont like failure because what do they do then? stop playing blame the game and walk away cant get much more failure than that .

Is this supposed to make any sense? Because it doesn't.

Made plenty of sense to me.

[rockyraccoon5]

I love it when people say they dont like failure because what do they do then? stop playing blame the game and walk away cant get much more failure than that .

Is this supposed to make any sense? Because it doesn't.

Made plenty of sense to me.

Well it seemed like he was referring to me since my post was directly previous of his, when I never said any of those things. Maybe he was just thinking out loud.

[Dragoforce]

God, I can't believe I took this thread seriously

[Rob]

Something about collecting the gold cubes while using the mosquito to keep up your invulnerability?

For exp gain (primary shot power-up, scoring), the approach is to forget about it as a survival mechanism and use it entirely to create exp cubes from bullets. Basic survival instinct would be to move away from bullets, but in Mars Matrix a dodged bullet is a wasted bullet. If you ignore the chain/exp/score then it is just a lowly bullet-canceling shield. The cubes have no effect on the shield.

Here's the intro to stage 1:


1 Group of small enemies that just sit around waiting to be shot. They drop +1 exp cubes. Regular shot or piercing cannon works fine.

2 After a wave or two, enough bullets are fired for it to be worthwhile to sweep in with the mosquito - this is not necessary but every +1 cube counts. You'll want to send them towards an enemy. Move in the opposite direction to where you want them fired and let go. Easy.

3 Reflected bullets turned into cubes.

4 Next group doesn't fire a single bullet so you have to rely on what they drop and not destroy them all too quickly. Piercing cannon works best here.

5 Back to redirecting some bullets. While you are absorbing bullets you can destroy the smaller +1 cube enemies just by flying over them (used to hold the chain here). Launching the bullets towards the rock works nicely.

Keep going like that and you'll get some points.

[rockyraccoon5]

God, I can't believe I took this thread seriously

You're an asshole. I get it.

Anyhow thanks for the help Rob. It's a bit more clear, I guess I just really don't understand this scoring system yet. Mikes sense to me to just obliterate shit with the piercing cannon, yet it seems like it's actually supposed to be some sort of balancing act. I don't know. I'll just watch some video for it, because I actually would like to try playing this one for score.. if only I understood it. >_> Perhaps I could hold out until I get enough points to purchase the strategy thing in the game's shop, not too far off.

EDIT: Nevermind, I think I finally got the execution down. This is so fucking cool. XD

[Rob]

The Giga Wing series is like a simplified MM. That's what I got into first (GW2). Don't have to worry about a timer, piercing cannon or managing the reflect meter (it's all or nothing).

[rockyraccoon5]

Yeah like I think this might be what people mean when they say "Good shmups are risk/reward"... possibly? Like because the closest you get to using up the mosquito without actually activating it... gives you more cubes, I think?

[everlust]

I've personally nothing against people who credit feed through shmups just for fun, but if this leads them to think that shmups are "too easy, too short", some rage may occur.

Yeah, like one of my friends that tried Futari, but hasn't really every played a shmup, thought he did well and boasted in 1.5 Ultra how he survived for a few seconds by bombing repeatedly at the start of Stage 1. Then stating, i could so play these games, they're not hard.

I raged hard especially considering that he labels shmups as mini-games, lacking of depth, way too short, and any other insult you can throw at it. I got extremely upset, but ah wells.

On-topic, I've come across a few people like this that simply just find shmups 'FUN', like any half decent retro title, they can just be the utmost entertaining, all the time, and every time. But when you come across intricate scoring systems, you will then start appreciating some of the depth a lot of shmups provide, and in turn, create goals for yourself which will lead to other layers of enjoyment.

Best genre. I love 'em.

[cools]

If it helps, Armed Police Batrider is the only STG I've got the 1cc on.

Even doing that required a sensible approach to picking up powerups (don't grab everything), and watching my score around the points where an extend is gained