Decimation X (from Xona Games)...

[Rob]

I would rather not attack preemptively for marketing your game a certain way. Only UFO Interactive deserves that!

To be fair, it was a game for the Wii. Milestone is first to blame.

[TMR]

Umm... really? i thought just about everyone doing indie stuff was contractually obliged to produce an "intense retro" something or other at some point...

Indie games look "retro" because that is the maximum amount of presentation quality a single person can put into a game with basic tools and still have it out within a reasonable timeframe.

Looking "retro" is different things to different games (blocky pixels, glowing vectors, crap graphics overall and so on - the term has been abused quite a bit) but no, not all indie games look retro. Braid, Trials HD, Gratuitous Space Battles and Genetos are all random examples of indie (again, definitions vary as may your mileage) and, whilst they may have "retro" gameplay (and that's subjective as hell anyway), they certainly don't fall into the blocky pixel/glowing line camp - i'd say Duality ZF doesn't either from the media i've seen.

"Retro" can still stand on its own in terms of gameplay, even up to huge studios with million-dollar budgets. Technically speaking, "retro" is better-off being called "small studio," because that's the exact condition that creates low-tech looking games. But this term has no weight yet with marketing.

The weight of the word is being eroded through over use right now and it can't be long before that bubble bursts (at which point i'm expecting a large, pixellated piece of fruit to fly out, hopefully a banana) and leave anyone with a good product tarred with the same negative brush that at least some of the rest already deserve. Unless i'm reading it wrong, Matthew's talking about using the phrase "intense retro" to describe the company itself to investors as well as the games and in that instance i'm still not convinced that they'll "get" the meaning in context any more than they would generic phrases like "2D shoot 'em up" or "hardcore action".

[Xonatron]

Unless i'm reading it wrong, Matthew's talking about using the phrase "intense retro" to describe the company itself to investors as well as the games and in that instance i'm still not convinced that they'll "get" the meaning in context any more than they would generic phrases like "2D shoot 'em up" or "hardcore action".

We want people to think of "intense retro" when they think of Xona Games, the same way Subway wants people to think of "fresh"! There's a million game "companies" out there, and how is Xona Games different? Well, we do retro gameplay and graphics (2D graphics anyway) with extreme intensity. That's what we do. We take what was cool and exhilarating about the old arcade games, and try to bring that into console games. Marketing that, we came up with "intense retro", which if anyone here can do better, please let me know! But I like it. I need to work it into the website and logo somehow and start using it more.

Just think about it from the outside:

Xona Games

...or...

Xona Games
Intense Retro (pretend this is a tagline)

It does help explain, at least somewhat, what we are about. So people will "get it" more with than without. I appreciate all your input. That's why I love these forums.

[TMR]

There's a million game "companies" out there, and how is Xona Games different? Well, we do retro gameplay and graphics (2D graphics anyway) with extreme intensity. That's what we do. We take what was cool and exhilarating about the old arcade games, and try to bring that into console games.

Yeah, but i'm really not sure that "intense retro" gets that point across fully; you and i automatically use the word "retro" as a loose shorthand for "games like what we used to play" but, assuming it even registers in that context and they're not thinking of flared trousers or t-shirts with "Frankie says Relax" on them, to the general gaming public "retro" means glowing vectors, chunky pixels or high difficulty levels and pitching your stall with that on the banner could well scare some folk off before they've even looked at what you're selling.

i'm not a marketing bunny, but i can't help thinking that something like "Intense Gameplay" or "Intense Action" would be more specific to the point you're wanting to make and easier to push... assuming they haven't already gone.

[Xonatron]

i'm not a marketing bunny, but i can't help thinking that something like "Intense Gameplay" or "Intense Action" would be more specific to the point you're wanting to make and easier to push... assuming they haven't already gone.

Both of those don't touch the fact that our games mostly resemble 80's games (graphically and gameplay), where "intense retro" does. We make old-school games, and the tagline should say that somehow. Your suggestions could apply to AAA title games, for example. I think "retro" captures it better. I am open to more suggestions, so please don't feel like I'm going to just trash anything presented to me!

[Rob]

"intense retro"

Flavor Blasted Goldfish

[Thunder Force]

Both of those don't touch the fact that our games mostly resemble 80's games (graphically and gameplay), where "intense retro" does. We make old-school games, and the tagline should say that somehow.

Yep, to much of the target audience for 80s-style videogames, "retro" is obviously a compliment, not a pejorative. So your use of that word seems fine, assuming the game delivers on that feel. Even if you lose a few non-retro mainstream gamers in the process, it's probably worth it to get your message out to your core audience.

[t0yrobo]

Looks fun enough. But I do have to question how well it plays on a sd tv, that's the sort of thing demos are for though.

[Kaspal]

Decimation no longer means just 1 out of 10, it also means dominating an population so badly that you destroy a significant portion of it, which is what happens in our game! (That percentage could be 1/10th of the total invading armada!) I think the name sounds great so I'm not too worried.

I know that for 99% of your customers it isn't going to make a difference. I'll just refer you to this http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1025 and leave it at that.

Good luck with Duality, I'll get it when it hits the PC!

this.

i really wanted to have it on the X360, but you know how it goes now... im gonna get a Jap-360 for Galuda 2 and ketsui (and some others) but i'll keep that bitch offline all the time... well, most of it, anyway.

so, yeah, release it for PC on Steam or whatever, and you'll see my pennies... otherwise, no thanks.

[DJ Incompetent]

Well done, Doucette.

[Xonatron]

Decimation X is now on Xbox LIVE Indie Games, for 80 Microsoft Points!

http://marketplace.xbox.com/games/media ... 025855040a

Thanks, DJ I!

[Alfred]

Hello Matthew, I bought your game and i like it. Nice music. When will it get a online leaderboard?. Thank you.

[ShmupSamurai]

Meh not interested..

[originalz]

This game is pretty good

[Jeneki]

Got 2,016,128 so far. It seems like the score goes up exponentially faster as you reach the higher levels.

[MDY]

I don't see what the problem is. I think it looks great for a dollar and a cut above most games on the Indy Games section.

I don't have any problem with "intense retro". In fact, it's what it looks like to me. I for one can't think of anything better that would be easily understood by the general populous (the large percentage of whom will purchase this game).

I will gladly purchase Duality, and might buy this as well if the demo is fun, and I have some extra points. If either suck, I'll let it be known then, but I would rather not attack preemptively for marketing your game a certain way. Only UFO Interactive deserves that!

I don't post on here that often.. but can I just say I'm also mystified by a lot of the responses on here. There seems to be a lot of negativity towards someone who is actively developing shmups and trying to make a living at it.
I can't believe people are being sniffy towards a $1 game (or Duality) because it might not be ~exactly~ what you want. Unless it's completely awful (which it most certainly isn't) I doubt most people wouldn't be able to easily have at least a dollar's worth of entertainment out of it, seriously what else will a dollar get you?
Especially as a lot of this is coming before people have even played the thing...

Surely shmups are already enough of a niche genre that ANYONE developing new stuff should be encouraged.. so they keep doing it!
If this means they need to knock out some fun, simple titles in between more major shmup projects that's fine by me.

In terms of using retro.. for the vast majority of the game playing public I think shmups ARE seen as a retro genre, to the average eye they don't seem to have advanced much from their early arcade roots and appear quite simplistic compared to the big 3D epic titles younger gamers are used to now..

So thanks Matt and Xona, you'll get my 80 points and cheers for your efforts.

[Udderdude]

I can't believe people are being sniffy towards a $1 game (or Duality)

I haven't seen anyone knocking on Duality. If anything people are asking if/when it's going to be done.

Unless it's completely awful (which it most certainly isn't) I doubt most people wouldn't be able to easily have at least a dollar's worth of entertainment out of it, seriously what else will a dollar get you?

This also assumes your free time is worth $1 to you. Would you rather spend your time playing an amazing game or an average one?

In terms of using retro.. for the vast majority of the game playing public

Does this look like "the vast majority of the game playing public.com" to you? "Retro" is a worn-out buzzword at this point. Any time I hear it, my BS detector goes off the charts. Especially when combined with other worn-out, trodden and abused buzzwords like "intense". Nobody here needs to be patronized with crap like that. Sure, put it on the Xbox indie games description thing. But like I said before, nobody here is going to be moved by anything except cold, hard proof the game is worth playing (protip: buzzwords don't do that).

[Jockel]

Does this look like "the vast majority of the game playing public.com" to you?

I smell a new meme.

+1 on the buzzwords

[MDY]

I haven't seen anyone knocking on Duality. If anything people are asking if/when it's going to be done.

I'm sure I recall a fair bit of negativity in the Duality threads..

This also assumes your free time is worth $1 to you. Would you rather spend your time playing an amazing game or an average one?

If I had paid 40-60x more for a game I would hope it was amazing...
I certainly wouldn't begrudge trying a game (for free) and paying that little for it if it provided a good deal of fun for an hour or two - which it has so far.

Does this look like "the vast majority of the game playing public.com" to you? "Retro" is a worn-out buzzword at this point. Any time I hear it, my BS detector goes off the charts. Especially when combined with other worn-out, trodden and abused buzzwords like "intense". Nobody here needs to be patronized with crap like that. Sure, put it on the Xbox indie games description thing. But like I said before, nobody here is going to be moved by anything except cold, hard proof the game is worth playing (protip: buzzwords don't do that).

That wasn't the point I was making - in order to be reasonably successful they HAVE to try to appeal to more than just the hardcore shmup audience..
I think he was hoping/assuming that the people here (of any audience) would just look at the product rather than judging things on the words he used here (which is I'm assuming the 'press release' he's posted wherever he can..) Maybe he was giving people too much credit.

[TMR]

Does this look like "the vast majority of the game playing public.com" to you?

I smell a new meme.

i smell a new domain to register...!

[TMR]

That wasn't the point I was making - in order to be reasonably successful they HAVE to try to appeal to more than just the hardcore shmup audience..

So using buzzwords usually associated with our neck of the woods like "retro", "intense" or even "arcade" and "2D" for descriptions aimed at the general public are a Bad Thing, even for the "shmup curious" crowd saying "it's like stuff done twenty years ago" is either going to be irksome or just result in something being filed with every other game pitched in the same way.

i'm actually beginning to think that the reason shoot 'em ups are a niche genre is in part due to the terminology distancing the games from those around them...

I think he was hoping/assuming that the people here (of any audience) would just look at the product rather than judging things on the words he used here (which is I'm assuming the 'press release' he's posted wherever he can..) Maybe he was giving people too much credit.

i haven't judged the product at all because i can't play it (look ma, no Xbox 360!) - what has concerned me in particular is the word "retro" as regards the company because, as i've already said and Udderdude has reiterated, it's getting seriously close to saturation use and i'm close to convinced that bubble will pop sooner rather than later. i still want a banana to fly out when it does, but any business "trading" under the retro banner is going to be hurt if i'm right.

[TodayIsForgotten]

Here's my thoughts on Decimation X.

The video makes it look rather lame. Upon playing it, it is rather fun. With all the bullets you can do the bullet-hell style tapping to manuever through a bullet curtain. I'm not saying this is a bullet hell so please dont misquote me or take that the wrong way. (:

It's fun and once you understand what the letters are and whatnot there is some risk and reward getting certain letters or playing how to pick up the ion storm.

The downfall? It felt rather repetitive, but it cetainly is one of the better shoot things on indie games and i could see myself going back to it for "a-go" when i have nothing else going for me.

For a dollar it is good value. Not great, not bad, but good.

With most indie games its usually a play it and possibly forget it. While I'm forcing myself to play shoot em ups or any game for more than an hour, its still rather hard to break a cycle that has started once red alert lost popularity online in 99. With the indie services and xbla, the games are right there for somewhat quick access (dashboard blows with loading times).

Whatever the reason for me and maybe like others when i see a decent digital download I want to try it for a hot minute.

[ShmupSamurai]

Does this look like "the vast majority of the game playing public.com" to you?

I smell a new meme.


i smell a new domain to register...!

[kengou]

That wasn't the point I was making - in order to be reasonably successful they HAVE to try to appeal to more than just the hardcore shmup audience..
I think he was hoping/assuming that the people here (of any audience) would just look at the product rather than judging things on the words he used here (which is I'm assuming the 'press release' he's posted wherever he can..) Maybe he was giving people too much credit.

I agree with you on that, he should try to appeal to more than just the hardcore shmup audience. But, he posted on here to see what our reaction was. It's his choice whether to appeal to both hardcore and casual shmup players, or just one or the other. I think Duality looks great, and I think this one doesn't look so good. Can't actually play it since I have no xbox, so I can't know for sure. In any case, he ought to know that certain things are meant to appeal to the mainstream but won't really appeal to us here. There is a difference. Maybe we're quicker to judge and maybe we're kind of stuffy or elitist about our genre on here, I won't deny that at all, but that's how it goes. We're used to some very high-quality stuff, we know what the difference is between quality and mediocre shmup design (mostly).

[kong]

I love shoot em up fans writing off a game based on looks. When has the genre
ever been about eye candy. I just bought Decimation X last night and it's simply
fantastic. Makes the wait for duality even more painful.

[Rob]

Tried the demo. As I figured, the firepower just makes it feel sloppy. Barely had to move, barely had to aim. If a shooter doesn't make the player move, it is failing. The enemy dust-fire isn't fun to dodge if you even have to dodge any of it. Felt like it was there just to chew through the unnecessarily large bases.

Side note: played through tons of single screen shooters last year and noticed few had directly copied Space Invaders. Probably why - typewriter enemy movement is boring. As soon as games like Galaxian were out, who wants to play that? It's worse when you have extreme firepower for them scroll straight into.

[dcharlie]

Picked it up last night, and enjoyed the quick game i had. Definitely worth the 80 pts for a start.

Little nit picks :
After a death, it takes too long for the new ship to be scrolled back onto the screen - it breaks the flow of the game somewhat as by the time you get up and through the levels things are moving at a very fast pace. Having to wait for the ship to trundle out breaks the speed a bit.

Non-top to bottom bullet patterns. This might happen much later in the game, but perhaps throwing a few curve ball diagnal shots in there would keep people on their toes a little bit.

Possible speed retuning or level start select with bonus? Feels a little stodgy going back to level 1 on a restart after getting up through the difficulties.

You already know this but Online leader board - definitely needs this ASAP! It would definitely motivate communities like this to play the game more.


Great stuff though, congrats! I'll certainly be telling friends to give it a try!

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

I hate to be so negative, but just because many classics of the genre were developed by Japanese companies and therefore have horrible Engrish in their titles doesn't mean that you have to give your own game a similarly retarded name. I wouldn't say anything if this didn't happen all the fucking time... not saying your game isn't worth buying, though.

[originalz]

Yeah, this game could use a level select feature. The first 10 or so waves are pretty boring (which is what most people will see in the trial), but then it starts heating up and by around 15 it's very intense and pretty fun.

[system11]

Ok I just played it, I quite like it but there's a fault:

Every second the game seems to drop a frame, or pause to be more precise. It's regular as clockwork, obvious even just moving the ship endlessly left to right, everything in the game is affected by it too. It's just this tiny pause, and it spoils the experience.

If it helps, this is a Euro 360 set to 720P at 60hz. When I set it to 50hz it looked fine, no more pausing, which seems .. wrong. No other XBLA Indie game I've tried (several) does this.