Decimation X (from Xona Games)...

[Xonatron]

A 1-4 player intense retro shmup, by Xona Games

Decimation X:
Official Site: http://decimationx.com/
Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy9bcEU_a3Q

UPDATE: Now on Xbox LIVE (80 Microsoft Points):
http://marketplace.xbox.com/games/media ... 025855040a

What do you think?

Should be out this week on Xbox LIVE Indie Games for 80 Microsoft Points ($1 USD), with a planned free update of online scoreboards very soon afterwards.

[Udderdude]

Ok, first off, nobody here is going to be impressed by the words "intense". Or "retro". Especially when they're right next to eachother and bold. You're more likely to get this reaction ..

Second off, it looks like space invaders but with way too many particle effects.

What happened to Duality? I want to see that, not this thing.

[orange]

god damnit

[Xonatron]

Well "intense retro" is our new tagline. [EDIT: Rather it's our new standout marketing position, how we are different from other studios.] Maybe I went about it the wrong way by bolding it. I'm just wondering if the hardcore shmup community would be interested in such a retro styled game.

[Xonatron]

What happened to Duality? I want to see that, not this thing.

Duality ZF is still trying to land an XBLA contract... so Decimation X was just a small attempt to capture the $1 game market.

[TMR]

Well "intense retro" is our new tagline. [EDIT: Rather it's our new standout marketing position, how we are different from other studios.]

Umm... really? i thought just about everyone doing indie stuff was contractually obliged to produce an "intense retro" something or other at some point...

[Xonatron]

Well "intense retro" is our new tagline. [EDIT: Rather it's our new standout marketing position, how we are different from other studios.]

Umm... really? i thought just about everyone doing indie stuff was contractually obliged to produce an "intense retro" something or other at some point...

True, but we push it a little bit more to the extreme. I find all these indie games and retro remakes claim to be intense, extreme, etc. and they are mostly just lame when it comes down to the gameplay action. (Geometry Wars wasn't. I am still amazed by those games.)

[Rob]

I'm just wondering if the hardcore shmup community would be interested in such a retro styled game.

Personally, what I like best about the oldest shooters is having to aim single shots. A real focus on accurate shooting. Plastering everything with a Batsugun spread takes that away.

[undamned]

i thought just about everyone doing indie stuff was contractually obliged to produce an "intense retro" something or other at some point...

True, but we push it a little bit more to the extreme.

Oh, man! You just said EXTREME! *my head asplode*
-ud

[emphatic]

Sorry. I would never play that, and I would definitely not pay for it either. I really hope you land a contract soon for your REAL game. Because that really looks like fun.

[Xonatron]

It's odd, because according to our information... Decimation X will do better than Duality ZF on the Indie Games service. Due to the formatting (quick play, simplicity) and price ($1), added in with expectation of the gamer on the XBLIG platform... among lots of other factors.

It all comes down to expectations. If you expect more from us, you'll think it sucks, and if you expect less, you'll think it's awesome. This game actually is more fun, and in playtest, more people want to play it than Duality ZF. No joke.

[Jeneki]

Hmm, I'm assuming there's videos on that website? There's just a blank spot there from behind the work firewall, I'll have to check when I get home. I can't imagine it wouldn't be worth a buck, especially to support an indie team that has other projects.

Am I the only one who reacts negatively to the word "retro" used to describe shmups? It's like saying "please don't take the shmup genre seriously". I keep thinking of that aweful Illvelo cover.

[Xonatron]

Hmm, I'm assuming there's videos on that website? There's just a blank spot there from behind the work firewall, I'll have to check when I get home. I can't imagine it wouldn't be worth a buck, especially to support an indie team that has other projects.

Am I the only one who reacts negatively to the word "retro" used to describe shmups? It's like saying "please don't take the shmup genre seriously". I keep thinking of that aweful Illvelo cover.

Here's the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy9bcEU_a3Q

I would buy this game for a dollar, judging on other games I've paid $1, $3, and $5 for... especially onces the online scores are in (next free update).

And "retro" is a marketing thing. When I go to pitch my company to investors (this Friday), how can I describe it to them? To general (non-shmup fan) gamers? Etc.? Retro just seems to work. And our games are old-school games remade, so isn't that retro? Interesting that retro turns you off.

[TMR]

And "retro" is a marketing thing. When I go to pitch my company to investors (this Friday), how can I describe it to them? To general (non-shmup fan) gamers? Etc.?

It's not much of a unique selling point to wave in front of investers though, surely? Regardless of your team's output it just pitches you right next to everyone else claiming to be either retro, intense and/or extreme. That's probably going to be a large wodge of indie developers all told because at least some of them are purely using the term to mean they can't draw graphics for toffee.

[Xonatron]

And "retro" is a marketing thing. When I go to pitch my company to investors (this Friday), how can I describe it to them? To general (non-shmup fan) gamers? Etc.?

It's not much of a unique selling point to wave in front of investers though, surely? Regardless of your team's output it just pitches you right next to everyone else claiming to be either retro, intense and/or extreme. That's probably going to be a large wodge of indie developers all told because at least some of them are purely using the term to mean they can't draw graphics for toffee.

Well we arrived at our "intense retro" tagline from a meeting with a ex-Microsoft employee who use to be the guy who listened to Xbox LIVE Arcade game pitches... and from our discussion, it seemed that "intensity" could be used as a standout marketing position, different from other companies. We could not think of any other companies that concentrate on simplistic gameplay intensity as we do. Everyone else claims it (in a most lame way), whereas we deliver it. It's partially my fault for not showcasing some of our games more intense moments (like Duality ZF with 8 fighters all max'ed out), so this is all good feedback for me. I should note that we were showcasing our game during this meeting, so the guy got to see our crazy our game would get.

[kengou]

Man I hate the word "retro". Cave is making new shmups all the time. Dodonpachi Daifukatsu is a MODERN GAME, it just happens to be a member of a very old genre that has been refined a lot over time, like modern games in any other old genre. Saying "retro" to me implies that shmups are a dead relic from the past being brought back to life. The whole damn point of this forum is that the genre lives as long as we're here playing it.

Also, is the goal of your game to reduce the alien armada to 1/10 of its size in order to win? Because you know, that's what the word "decimation" means... just wondering. Would actually be kind of interesting to have to kill EXACTLY 9/10 of the enemy armada, and you lose if you kill any more than that. That would be an interesting and unique (?) gameplay mechanic. I'd be much more interested in playing that, than a clone of space invaders with more bullets and lots of vector graphic particle effects. I don't know if you've played Space Invaders Extreme or the sequel, but they did it first and they did it pretty damn well.

[Jeneki]

Don't sweat it too much over terminology. As much as everyone likes to overanalyze a sales pitch, at the end of the day nobody chooses what to buy/notbuy based on the choice of words used by marketing.

Good luck on your game. I'm pretty sure I have points available to snag it.

[TMR]

Well we arrived at our "intense retro" tagline from a meeting with a ex-Microsoft employee who use to be the guy who listened to Xbox LIVE Arcade game pitches... and from our discussion, it seemed that "intensity" could be used as a standout marketing position, different from other companies.

Okay, intense perhaps (although how the feck you're going to pitch that to investors... good luck on that one! =-) but retro worries me for various reasons, not least of which is how devalued the term has become over the last year or so because anything with glowing lines or programmer-drawn graphics is passed off under that banner right now.

We could not think of any other companies that concentrate on simplistic gameplay intensity as we do.

Hard to say without playing your output, but Llamasoft have something of a rep...

[Xonatron]

Man I hate the word "retro". Cave is making new shmups all the time. Dodonpachi Daifukatsu is a MODERN GAME, it just happens to be a member of a very old genre that has been refined a lot over time, like modern games in any other old genre. Saying "retro" to me implies that shmups are a dead relic from the past being brought back to life. The whole damn point of this forum is that the genre lives as long as we're here playing it.

I see now. We are not on the same page, but maybe I can fix that: To be clear, we do not consider all shmups to be retro. Cave shooters are modern games, and no "modern" games are "retro" in our eyes. However, we do consider our Xona Games shmups to be retro, especially Decimation X (just look at it). I believe Duailty ZF is a retro shmup, too, but it's really about half-way between retro and modern. I appreciate the blur between what is retro and what is not, there is no clear line. All shmups essentially have retro gameplay mechanics, and perhaps gameplay mechanics can never be labelled as retro as such things are timeless. Interesting stuff...

Also, is the goal of your game to reduce the alien armada to 1/10 of its size in order to win? Because you know, that's what the word "decimation" means... just wondering. Would actually be kind of interesting to have to kill EXACTLY 9/10 of the enemy armada, and you lose if you kill any more than that. That would be an interesting and unique (?) gameplay mechanic. I'd be much more interested in playing that, than a clone of space invaders with more bullets and lots of vector graphic particle effects. I don't know if you've played Space Invaders Extreme or the sequel, but they did it first and they did it pretty damn well.

Decimation no longer means just 1 out of 10, it also means dominating an population so badly that you destroy a significant portion of it, which is what happens in our game! (That percentage could be 1/10th of the total invading armada!) I think the name sounds great so I'm not too worried.

I have played Space Invaders Extreme, and it is one of those games that uses the "extreme" without delivering the extremities! But, really, they just meant "extreme" in other ways, not in the quick-reflex arcade-style way we mean it. I guess "intensity" is a better word for us to use than "extreme".

[Xonatron]

Don't sweat it too much over terminology. As much as everyone likes to overanalyze a sales pitch, at the end of the day nobody chooses what to buy/notbuy based on the choice of words used by marketing.

Good luck on your game. I'm pretty sure I have points available to snag it.

I agree. When they play the game, they'll decide in about 10..30 seconds if they'll spend 80pts on it or not... and the sale is made or lost that quickly. I'll have to make some nice boxart to help showcase what the game is for those skimming through.

[Udderdude]

What happened to Duality? I want to see that, not this thing.

Duality ZF is still trying to land an XBLA contract... so Decimation X was just a small attempt to capture the $1 game market.

That's a pain. I hope it gets up there eventually, it was starting to look really cool

[rancid3000]

This game looks somewhat interesting but I can't say I'm dying to play it. I've been playing lots of Space Invaders Infinity Gene on my iPod so I've had my Space Invaders fix. I am going to buy it to see what it is like and to support your company. I really want to see Duality though.

[Xonatron]

This game looks somewhat interesting but I can't say I'm dying to play it. I've been playing lots of Space Invaders Infinity Gene on my iPod so I've had my Space Invaders fix. I am going to buy it to see what it is like and to support your company. I really want to see Duality though.

Yeah it's too bad... this game started (and is almost the same) as a game Jason coded 10 years ago or more, before any of the new Space Invaders that have come out in the past years... so it's really unfortunate for us to not have made our mark back then with our retro remake "more-action instead of more-graphics" styled games.

[kengou]

Decimation no longer means just 1 out of 10, it also means dominating an population so badly that you destroy a significant portion of it, which is what happens in our game! (That percentage could be 1/10th of the total invading armada!) I think the name sounds great so I'm not too worried.

I know that for 99% of your customers it isn't going to make a difference. I'll just refer you to this http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1025 and leave it at that.

Good luck with Duality, I'll get it when it hits the PC!

[ZacharyB]

Umm... really? i thought just about everyone doing indie stuff was contractually obliged to produce an "intense retro" something or other at some point...

Indie games look "retro" because that is the maximum amount of presentation quality a single person can put into a game with basic tools and still have it out within a reasonable timeframe.

Keep in mind that as the overall quality of games increased, so did the size of their development teams. If you keep development teams small at one or two people, you are not going to see high levels of graphics and sound refinement within short timeframes unless some pretty sophisticated tools are being used.

"Retro" can still stand on its own in terms of gameplay, even up to huge studios with million-dollar budgets. Technically speaking, "retro" is better-off being called "small studio," because that's the exact condition that creates low-tech looking games. But this term has no weight yet with marketing.

As much as everyone likes to overanalyze a sales pitch, at the end of the day nobody chooses what to buy/notbuy based on the choice of words used by marketing.

You'd be surprised at the differences subtleties can make. Here's an example regarding restaurants:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/23/dining/23menus.html

[Square King]

*splash*

[Udderdude]

You'd be surprised at the differences subtleties can make. Here's an example regarding restaurants:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/23/dining/23menus.html

When you are attempting to influence idiots, this works fine. Personally I find any sort of manipulation on this level insulting to my intelligence.

[gatsu25]

I don't see what the problem is. I think it looks great for a dollar and a cut above most games on the Indy Games section.

I don't have any problem with "intense retro". In fact, it's what it looks like to me. I for one can't think of anything better that would be easily understood by the general populous (the large percentage of whom will purchase this game).

I will gladly purchase Duality, and might buy this as well if the demo is fun, and I have some extra points. If either suck, I'll let it be known then, but I would rather not attack preemptively for marketing your game a certain way. Only UFO Interactive deserves that!

[Xonatron]

You'd be surprised at the differences subtleties can make. Here's an example regarding restaurants:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/23/dining/23menus.html

When you are attempting to influence idiots, this works fine. Personally I find any sort of manipulation on this level insulting to my intelligence.

No offense to you, but you'll find almost everyone believes that marketing "b.s." doesn't work on them, but yet companies continue to spend millions on what they know works on the overall masses... It's hard to measure what influences our brains. You (anyone I mean) can actually learn to like something you previously disliked. Perhaps you always liked it but just never gave it a chance. Even if you stick hard to your tastes and claim marketing (bragging and labelling) doesn't work on you, you have to admit it matters in the big picture, and anyone selling a product must take it seriously!

[Xonatron]

I don't see what the problem is. I think it looks great for a dollar and a cut above most games on the Indy Games section.

I don't have any problem with "intense retro". In fact, it's what it looks like to me. I for one can't think of anything better that would be easily understood by the general populous (the large percentage of whom will purchase this game).

I will gladly purchase Duality, and might buy this as well if the demo is fun, and I have some extra points. If either suck, I'll let it be known then, but I would rather not attack preemptively for marketing your game a certain way. Only UFO Interactive deserves that!

Thank you!