Consoles breaking due to downloads-an alarming trend?...

[dave4shmups]

I just don't understand it-yesterday I logged into Youtube and one of the guy's I subscribe to had his PS3 break on him just because he downloaded an update to Fat Princess! His warranty expired, so Sony wants him to pay them $150 just to get it fixed. A month or two ago, IGN ran a story about Wii's breaking due to a downloadable update, and it's probably happened with XBOX 360's as well.

This is a really alarming trend to me-I mean, I know you buy a console for the games, but that hardly matters when your console of choice can be virtually destroyed just because you downloaded an update, patch for a game, etc, etc. Don't MS, Nintendo, and Sony TEST these downloads before unleashing them to the general public?! Heck, we've had our PC since 2004, and never once have we had any issues with Windows XP updates.

I don't know, I'd love to get a PS3, but even with the greater durability of the new slim models, I now question if it would be worth it if it can break, after the warranty, just from a simple download. A good friend of mine got the RROD on his 360 after the warranty had expired, but he was able to get it fixed for just $60. I have no idea how you'd fix a console that's been jacked up from a bad download. And how do you even back up saved games on a PS3 when there are no memory units or SD cards at all?

So, those are my concerns. Maybe I'm going overboard with this, but when you invest even $200 into a Wii, this kind of thing shouldn't be able to ruin it.

[Ex-Cyber]

Wii and 360 have each had a bootloader update (in both cases intended to kill unsigned code); not sure about PS3. Bootloader updates are inherently risky. There's a critical set of operations somewhere in the update that must go right or the system will be left in an unbootable state (unless there is a manual low-level override to use an old bootloader or the like). They can work to make that set of operations as small as possible but it's always possible that the update will fail even if the update code is 100% correct and takes all possible precautions. A statistic of questionable provenance that I've seen tossed around is that about 0.1% of bootloader updates fail in general, barring gross bugs in the update code.

It seems unlikely that a game update would completely hose the system unless it happened to trigger an underlying failure somewhere else (e.g. a failing/defective HDD or NAND). Filesystem bugs are a possibility, I suppose. There's also the possibility that it just happened to fail at that time for another reason unrelated to the update. That said, there is some inherent risk in keeping system software on a writable medium. This doesn't specifically pertain to downloads; in principle simply saving your game could go bad and trash the system software if there's a glitch at the wrong time/place.

And how do you even back up saved games on a PS3 when there are no memory units or SD cards at all?

By using a USB drive?

[Specineff]

I've updated my PS3 twice, and never had an issue with it. I did avoid the previous messed-up firmware that probably gave rise to the rumors you've heard about, Dave. However, my system remains fully operational.

[kengou]

I haven't had any issues with my Wii (got it close to launch) and my PS3 (got it a couple months ago) through multiple updates.

Still, this sort of thing really pisses me off. It's a CONSOLE! You KNOW what the hardware and operating system and architecture is for EVERYBODY! There is absolutely no excuse that I can come up with for an update to break anybody's console, except for people running unauthorized mods/3rd party hardware or software that isn't officially licensed for that console. It's baffling to me! I don't have that much sympathy for people running homebrew or mods having their systems bricked due to an update; Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo have no guarantee that their software will cooperate with anything BUT officially licensed hardware/software and the user is accepting the risk. But when somebody is just running a stock system with regular games, and firmware breaks something, that's absolutely unacceptable to me. One example I saw is Sony's 3.10 update breaking some people's systems or controller compatibility. Sony offered to repair it if you send it in and pay them $150. That sounds like something you could sue over and expect to win, I would imagine, although I Am Not A Lawyer.

[junkeR]

You should google "ps3 safe mode". I recall reading a post on the PS Blog where Sony details a way to boot up your PS3 into safe mode to reinstall/repair your system if it doesn't boot properly.

Link is here...

[dave4shmups]

Ok, so it doesn't happen that often? That is good to know. Here's the video I was referring to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plwMP43yBng Make sure you watch the whole thing.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I've had my PS3 first gen USA region with 60GB HDD freeze up on me a few times. Just a simple soft-reset "Turn Off and Turn On" resets itself and it's back to 100% operating condition. Pretty versatile console considering that it runs with it's own specialized custom Linux OS.

On one occasion, my PS3 froze up. Upon soft resetting it, a screen display came up stating "Your PS3 did not shut down properly. Would you like to report this to Sony?". There was a simple Yes or No command option highlighted if you wished to do so. I naturally declined and it was back in operating condition as usual.

Note: Just make sure that the power doesn't go off when doing a System Update to your PS3 -- very important indeed. Or you could use an UPS with battery-back up as a preventive measure (just in case power does go out in your local electrical grid area) that is hooked up to the PS3 when updating with the ever-changing firmware updates.

If you are getting close to running out of space on a 60GB HDD setup, it might be wise to delete games and demos that are HDD power-hungry to recoup up some of that valuable HDD space or just buy a bigger HDD to remedy that potential situation. Just the downloadable PS3 version of Wipeout HD Fury and all it's updates will take up a whopping 1.8+ GB of space easily...won't be too long before it approaches and breaks the 2GB HDD space barrier.

I always hook up my PS3 to a Monster A/V surge protector for peace of mind. It wasn't a cheap investment to begin with and have no intentions of skimping out on the usage of proper surge protection with my gaming consoles.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[dave4shmups]

Ok, thanks for all the advice! So, what do you guys make of what happened to that guy on Youtube? I'd like to know.

[neorichieb1971]

I find it hard to believe a download can damage a system physically.

[Jockel]

I find it hard to believe a download can damage a system physically.

Not physically, but on the software side of things.
And it very well can render it useless.
Bootloader updates are always a risky thing.
Even though the risk is small, there is a small percentage of consoles bound to get fucked up.

[dave4shmups]

I find it hard to believe a download can damage a system physically.

Not physically, but on the software side of things.
And it very well can render it useless.
Bootloader updates are always a risky thing.
Even though the risk is small, there is a small percentage of consoles bound to get fucked up.

So, the risk isn't large enough that you'd advise someone against buying a PS3 or 360 or Wii? I wonder how small the percentages are?

[Ex-Cyber]

Oh, I thought you were talking about something like a bricked console. AFAIK, "snow" on complex scenes like that typically indicates that the GPU is faulty or is being screwed over by some other bad component (VRAM, capacitors, etc.). It could be caused by something like the GPU driver setting up clocks incorrectly, but I'd expect such code to be part of the hypervisor, completely resident in the system flash and untouchable outside of system updates.

[Udderdude]

This was inevitable as soon as consoles started trying to act like PCs. All the problems that have plagued PCs come along for the ride.

But hey, at least you can pay for overpriced DLC.

[neorichieb1971]

Consoles are worse. They are overgrown PC's in VERY small containers.

[E. Randy Dupre]

As mentioned above, that looks like some form of hardware failure, which wouldn't have been caused by a software update. It's most likely entirely coincidental that it's happened around the same time that he downloaded a patch.

Also: he's supposed to be a games reviewer? When he clearly doesn't know shit about anything?

My PS3 can be flaky at times. No more than my Wii, I suppose, although the Wii gets used so infrequently it's difficult to tell. Both consoles can freeze up while doing certain things - the PS3 can get itself in a state when I'm using it to browse the internet, the Wii can decide to go into a state of suspended animation when it's downloading stuff. I've not had this problem with the 360. It's frozen during games, but only two or three times in the four years I've owned it. The PS3 also managed to fail to load the XMB a couple of days ago - turning it off and on again sorted that out, although it's still a bit worrying.

[dave4shmups]

Ok, since I last posted in this thread, Sinistermoon told me that he he did try safe mode, but not even that worked. So he's going to pay the $150. In the mean time, a good friend of mine's 360 got the three red rings-he was able to get it fixed, through a local game store, for $60. (Because the warranty had expired, MS wanted $99.) So it seems to me that PS3's are a LOT more expensive to fix.

[lgb]

Consoles are worse. They are overgrown PC's in VERY small containers.

...which also strive to be some sort of "standard" at the same time... no fun