Xbox 360: Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 (November 2009)

[Elixir]

Oh boy the "BL is crap and the changes could be programmed in 5 minutes, horrible waste MS points, damn Cave for porting their games" argument again

Tell me more

See above posts. Original is now easy for a mentally challenged person who cannot 1CC TFIII to clear, and Maniac's scoring is now as deep as mashing potatoes.

I guess you could download BL if you want...if you lack common sense, that is.

BL Original is fairly easy to 1cc but scoring takes a massive amount of dodging skill and patience.

[moonshine]

BL is very good for playing a different type of game, and god mode is excellent!

[8 1/2]

Picked up BL over the weekend, and I'm having a blast. Not sure what's up with the haters, but this BL is much more interesting and complete of a package than the Deathsmiles BL was. DS's BL mode felt more like a simple evolution, where the BL for Futari makes me rethink the whole game. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but BL Futari fixes just about every little annoyance I had with 1.5. I can see why players used to 1.5 might have issue, but for myself this is the only mode I care to play now.

[msm]

what do people with experience of the black label pcb think to the accuracy of the port on maniac difficulty? i remember reading that BL-original has quite a bit more slowdown than the pcb but don't remember anyone mentioning about maniac - although i could have easily missed it.

i've not really played the BL pcb and to me BL-maniac on the port seems so much easier than 1.5-maniac (edit - although the bosses generally seem a bit harder), especially stages 4 and 5, partly because with reco anyway you can just keep the options spread out over the screen, and partly its just easier. just wondered if this is in line with the pcb?

thanks

[Skykid]

Well, holy shit me.

I got home finally from my xmas break at my parents place and at 2:45 am I wacked on Black Label for my first proper go - and 1cc'd it on the first attempt.
Now that's a first in my book for sure.

It's masses of fun, looking forward to cracking onto the other two modes once I've fleshed out some scoring tactics on original. I wouldn't say it's better than 1.5 original in terms of proper challenge - it's a lot, LOT easier (I actually died trying to get the stage 5 extra life and still went on to finish it) but it's certainly different in a good way, and the scope for scoring is broad indeed. I love the fact that there's far more bullets and the bosses are more formidable.

But some of the slowdown is crazy. Stage 3 boss is like playing in molasses throughout - is it like that on the PCB?

On the flip side I also had some fun on 1.01 - what a punishing sucker that is! Where the hell is all the slowdown??

[SFKhoa]

I believe the PCB has less slowdown in Original.
Also, try getting 100k total counter. The rank boost is insane to the point that it becomes Raiden all over again.

[sh00g]

I'm completely new to the bullet hell series of games and this is my first game that I'm entirely focused on. 1.5 Original is just ripping me apart. It starts right at the mid boss of stage 3 and goes to hell. I have to bomb a lot of stuff to survive and most of the time I don't, just because I want to actually try and learn to dodge patterns.

When shit hits the fan, I just can't keep up. Maybe I'm not cut out for these kind of games.

How big is the skill curve? Been playing a bit (on and off quite a bit due to the steam holiday sale at the moment) spamming training mode stage 3 these last few days and still cannot make it through consistently without bombing.

[Aquas]

A few tips sh00g:

1. Herd bullets. Use a tapping dodge technique to get to the other side of the screen and back. Tap dodging will let you avoid all aimed shots. When herding bullets, you'll have to carve your way through a bullet pattern when returning to the other side as to avoid being surrounded by enemies.
2. Know (where) your hitbox. And try to watch the center of the screen, keeping in mind where your hitbox is when you're looking at oncoming enemies or bullets that are coming at you. Observe the bullets coming at you, and have the confidence to take your eyes off the character (if you find yourself doing that a lot.)

[chempop]

sh00g, don't beat yourself up over it. Halfway through stage 3 gives a lot of people (including me) trouble at first. It really helps to anticipate the enemies and kill them before they shoot. Randomly dodging bullets isn't isn't the best strategy in that part of the game. Abnormal Palm often has some difficulty there because his shot is so narrow, although that's the character I generally use for 1.5 original.

btw, welcome to the forum .

[NR777]

Almost 1cc'd BL Original tonight ( which was a huge improvement considering I hadn't even played Stages 4 & 5 yet ) and I will echo the "BL Original is an easy 1cc" call. The clear isn't the problem. Scoring well ( and my score sucks ) requires you to do some seriously retarded shit. Anyone out there belittling a BL accomplishment is a jackass. Yeah, I expect to get the ALL in about two weeks, but high level play is actually harder than 1.5. To score well in BL you pretty much have to no-miss no-bomb the whole game while point-blanking everything. Anyone who says that is easy is either incredibly skilled or has never played BL for score.

[Udderdude]

I'm completely new to the bullet hell series of games and this is my first game that I'm entirely focused on. 1.5 Original is just ripping me apart. It starts right at the mid boss of stage 3 and goes to hell. I have to bomb a lot of stuff to survive and most of the time I don't, just because I want to actually try and learn to dodge patterns.

When shit hits the fan, I just can't keep up. Maybe I'm not cut out for these kind of games.

How big is the skill curve? Been playing a bit (on and off quite a bit due to the steam holiday sale at the moment) spamming training mode stage 3 these last few days and still cannot make it through consistently without bombing.

Have you tried novice mode?

[NR777]

Have you tried novice mode?

I seriously wouldn't recommend Novice Mode. Unless you just want to get a handle on the scoring system, it is entirely useless. I played with it to figure out the scoring system (s) and sucked really bad at the real modes in the game. My big gripe is the Auto-bomb. It gives the player a false sense of confidence. The real game won't bomb for you, so I think the novice/arrange modes teach really bad habits...like not bombing when you need to because the game does it for you. Stage 3 is a huge wall ( the later half anyway ), so don't feel too bad about being stuck there ( I still can't clear it on 1.5 ). Cave's games usually pour on the difficulty past Stage 2, so just practice. You'll get there...and probably before me.

[sjewkestheloon]

Have you tried novice mode?

I seriously wouldn't recommend Novice Mode. Unless you just want to get a handle on the scoring system, it is entirely useless. I played with it to figure out the scoring system (s) and sucked really bad at the real modes in the game. My big gripe is the Auto-bomb. It gives the player a false sense of confidence. The real game won't bomb for you, so I think the novice/arrange modes teach really bad habits...like not bombing when you need to because the game does it for you. Stage 3 is a huge wall ( the later half anyway ), so don't feel too bad about being stuck there ( I still can't clear it on 1.5 ). Cave's games usually pour on the difficulty past Stage 2, so just practice. You'll get there...and probably before me.

I disagree, Novice modes were incredibly useful for me when used alongside Original BL, especially on stage 3. I had established that the main threats were the woodlice and the mantis like big enemies. As the threat was low I could work on enemy placement without constant death. I'm now getting to the point where I can get through stage 3 semi consistently with just a couple of boss problems.

Just make sure that you don't ONLY play Novice.

[1up]

Im a 'casual' shmup player if you can call it that? I can make it to the stage 3 boss on a regular basis on 1.5 original, but I really enjoy novice mode, espcially Maniac. Its a lot of fun for me because its not too hard and I can take a stab at the scoring mechanics instead of holding on for dear life and just trying to survive.

I'll agree that it gives a false sense of security with the autobombing, and I wish there was a novice mode without autobombing, so that you could get the easy bullet patterns and play for score while still have to worry about not getting hit.

also, the dificulty gap from novice to original is brutal

[NR777]

Just make sure that you don't ONLY play Novice.

Agreed. I won't completely devalue Novice Mode. I'm glad it's there: it allows people who are not comfortable with the genre ( and "Bullet Hell", despite the success of Ikaruga, is still relatively new to Western audiences ) to get their feet wet. Just to make this absolutely clear: I am by no means an expert, nor would I even call myself a decent player at this point. I just tend to have a problem with the current trend of taking the threat of death out of gaming. Novice Mode pretty much makes it impossible to not 1cc the game. While I think it can be valuable with regards to learning basic scoring mechanics and enemy placement, I really think the autobomb should have been optional. Also of note: Novice won't really help with BL as the scoring system is modified, rank behaves differently, and enemy placement has changed. Again, I'm hardly an "expert" but I do consider over-reliance on the Novice modes a crutch that ultimately stalls real improvement.

[NR777]

also, the dificulty gap from novice to original is brutal

That it is. BL Original is much easier due to more slowdown...but the rank gets much scarier if you score well.

[DC906270]

I'm completely new to the bullet hell series of games and this is my first game that I'm entirely focused on. 1.5 Original is just ripping me apart. It starts right at the mid boss of stage 3 and goes to hell. I have to bomb a lot of stuff to survive and most of the time I don't, just because I want to actually try and learn to dodge patterns.

When shit hits the fan, I just can't keep up. Maybe I'm not cut out for these kind of games.

most modern shmup games are fucking difficult, it takes a stack load of dedication to get good at a game you need to stick to playing a single game or maybe two over a couple of months, then you will improve your game

[Krondelo]

I'm completely new to the bullet hell series of games and this is my first game that I'm entirely focused on. 1.5 Original is just ripping me apart. It starts right at the mid boss of stage 3 and goes to hell. I have to bomb a lot of stuff to survive and most of the time I don't, just because I want to actually try and learn to dodge patterns.

When shit hits the fan, I just can't keep up. Maybe I'm not cut out for these kind of games.

most modern shmup games are fucking difficult, it takes a stack load of dedication to get good at a game you need to stick to playing a single game or maybe two over a couple of months, then you will improve your game

Exactly. You want to get better its just like anything else that takes a lot of skill. PRACTICE.. the more you play daily and when you play focus on improving you will improve. Just takes time, I'm still learning with this one but practicing a ton of Bullet Hells before this game helped me out a lot.

[NR777]

Exactly. You want to get better its just like anything else that takes a lot of skill. PRACTICE.. the more you play daily and when you play focus on improving you will improve. Just takes time, I'm still learning with this one but practicing a ton of Bullet Hells before this game helped me out a lot.

The practice has definitely been paying off for me. Almost got the ALL in BL Original last night...but my score sucked. Part of that has to do with never having played through stages 4 and 5 before, so I played really conservatively.

[evil_ash_xero]

Shock and awe.

I beat BL just a few minutes ago. I don't really know how I did it, considering that I suck at BL, and I got to the last stage with no extra lives or bombs.

Now, if I can only beat 1.5....

You know, it really pisses me off that in 1.01, you can't hurt the bosses with your bombs. I mean, that makes it basically impossible for me. I'm terrible at the bosses.

[sjewkestheloon]

I find the bosses to be easily the most difficult thing in this game. The stages have tricky spots but can be overcome fairly easily with conservative play and tapping. The bosses, however, can be pretty punishing. Surely someone else finds the incredibly long first form of the stage 3 boss of BL Original a complete bitch!

Today I decided to have a play where I ignored score and stayed in the bottom half of the screen, using whichever shot was appropriate to the enemy and not the chain colour and I got to stage 5.

That's right I got to the last stage of a Cave game on one credit

Two of my deaths on that run were completely stupid and I had full bomb stocks on each, so with a little improvement I will probably clear it soon. This is definately a more rewarding game when it comes to score though. I got to stage 4 with a no miss and a reasonable counter for the first time today and, damn, the bullets were faster than I could see!

I definately see myself improving more and more in this game over time, and I can't wait to clear it and start playing 1.5 more. I think I will probably have an easier time of the bosses on that mode simply because the patterns seem that much slower that I can prepare with greater ease.

[Krondelo]

As for me I have been practicing 1.5 Maniac, I'm really having a lot of fun with it and clearly it has the best scoring mechanics. I keep dying stupidly on the second boss though, I was dodging that last pretty intense pattern where two sets of patterns spin outward in different directions. I died when the boss only had a sliver of health.... next time.

[sjewkestheloon]

Just got a 1cc of BL Original with Reco and a score of about 256 million!

Now I've done it myself I can understand the complaint that BL makes the game too easy, but I've been having so much fun with it that I certainly won't be stopping with this mode for a long time. I really like the difficulty switch of survival vs. score as I am not sick of the game at the time of my first clear and I am eager to double my score at least.

One minor gripe with the game is that stage 3 is, in my opinion, the most difficult stage. The second half is a punisher and the boss has a stupid amount of health compared to the others. Stage 4 boss drops in about half the time and you can easily bomb through the stage 5 boss. The stage 3 boss is the only one that has a first form with about 5 different patterns, and a few of those give me some serious problems. I think I'll be watching some replays and working towards a no bomb run as bombing seriously destroys the counter.

Oh, and just to reinforce the point, I 1CC'D A CAVE GAME!

[Skykid]

Just got a 1cc of BL Original with Reco and a score of about 256 million!

Now I've done it myself I can understand the complaint that BL makes the game too easy, but I've been having so much fun with it that I certainly won't be stopping with this mode for a long time. I really like the difficulty switch of survival vs. score as I am not sick of the game at the time of my first clear and I am eager to double my score at least.

One minor gripe with the game is that stage 3 is, in my opinion, the most difficult stage. The second half is a punisher and the boss has a stupid amount of health compared to the others. Stage 4 boss drops in about half the time and you can easily bomb through the stage 5 boss. The stage 3 boss is the only one that has a first form with about 5 different patterns, and a few of those give me some serious problems. I think I'll be watching some replays and working towards a no bomb run as bombing seriously destroys the counter.

Oh, and just to reinforce the point, I 1CC'D A CAVE GAME!

BL original is far easier to 1CC, but not as easy to score well. That takes a lot of practice but is plenty of fun.
Stage 3 is a wall in both versions, and the boss is harder on BL for some patterns, easier for others. He's a total bastard either way.

[sjewkestheloon]

Damn I just watched the replay of the person who is in the no. 1 spot for BL Original with 2.6 billion points. That guy did some crazy dodging shit! The best thing about it is that he actually lost a life and bombed once or twice as well as using up all of his lives against Larsa, so could easily improve on that score a whole bunch.

I think I need to seriously practise just getting through the stages for a while yet before I get on to the serious up close killing. There are a lot of points that I haven't got down yet and got through taking advantage of the laser shot's wide spread and blanket spamming of the tap shot. Until I know where each of the ships come from there's no way I'll be able to fly about at the top of the screen without a lot of luck.

I think I'm going to use a chunk of my playtime running the bosses with no lives and no bombs.

[RGC]

Very nice conversion and game (just had a quick go on Original). Turns out I had one of those download card thingies too..

[njiska]

Any one else noticed the jagged freeze frames seem to stop after playing for a while? I can't tell if it's real or just after 24 hours of BL I've stopped noticing. For comparison's sake I've got the game installed to the HD and Ver 1.01 DL'd.

[sjewkestheloon]

I can find no patterns to the appearance of the freezes. Sometimes happens, sometimes doesn't.

It seems to happen after a period of leaving the game on pause, but it could just be coinsidence.

Wish they'd bloody fix it though.

[yyr]

I'm still having a blast hopping between different modes (which I probably shouldn't be doing if I want to improve on one in particular) but I've been spending the majority of the time in Maniac mode, on both 1.5 and BL.

I haven't watched too many replays, but I figured I'd just ask: in Maniac, is there a general rule of thumb for when you should cash in the multiplier? I keep getting into situations where after the first part of a boss I'm already down to x1...does that mean I'm doing it wrong?

[EOJ]

I haven't watched too many replays, but I figured I'd just ask: in Maniac, is there a general rule of thumb for when you should cash in the multiplier? I keep getting into situations where after the first part of a boss I'm already down to x1...does that mean I'm doing it wrong?

Get the multiplier up to x9999 as fast as possible and cash it in on the next bullet-cancelling enemy you come across, when there are a lot of bullets on the screen. For example, in stage 2 you can use it on the large icicles, the drones that float across in the first half, or on the large flying bugs in the second half. That's the general rule. There are a few spots where it's more beneficial to use the multiplier when it's at x4000~x6000 (such as the first hive at the start of stage 3 in 1.5 Maniac), but generally you shouldn't use it when it's below x7000.

Keep in mind you must learn how to trigger large gold gems (press laser to destroy an enemy when the chaining bar is flashing red), and you must also note that there is a proximity effect in 1.5 Maniac that is just as important as it is in BL Maniac (actually, arguably MORE important, at least at high-level scoring). So you need to kill enemies close by and swoop in to absorb the gems while they are still green-hued whenever you can. Green-hued gems add 2x the amount to your multiplier as normal-hued gems do.

For the bosses, you can do various strategies. Sometimes it's better to start a boss fight with a full x9999 (i.e. the stage 4 boss in 1.5 Maniac or the Stage 2 boss in BL Maniac). Other times it's better to start with close to zero and gather gems on the first/second phases to cash in on the second/third phases (i.e. the stage 2 boss in 1.5 Maniac).

What you should NOT be doing is just trying to get x9999 before the boss and scoring on the bosses, never using the multiplier in the actual stage. If you do so, your score will be complete garbage, and you will really be missing out on what Maniac mode is all about.

Just watch some replays on xbox live. While the very top scorers in each mode might be intimidating and difficult to replicate, I have a 615mil replay in 1.5 Maniac, and a 760+mil replay in BL Maniac (both in 360 mode rankings) up for download there, if those might help you. My gamertag is colors in spin.