Why does everyone love Thunder Force series?

[EinhanderZwei]

AGAIN, I'm not trolling, but I just want to know why is Thunder Force lineup is one of the most respected shmup franchises. I've played II, III, IV and VI, and my impressions are the following:

II - 'looks like shit. Even by oldschool standards'
III - 'lots o'cheap deaths and bad controls'
IV - 'moar cheap deaths and bad controls'
VI - 'damn I'm sleepy'

I really want to get into TF, but looks like there's always something just preventing me to enjoy it! Please, can someone advise me a cure?

[sikraiken]

Who said it's one of the most respected shmup franchises? You're always going to find people who don't like something about any game.

[Strider77]

It would have helped if you played them when they came out..... and not after they are almost 20 years old. TF3 alone came out about 19 years ago. 19 years ago..... nothing you could play in your home came close shooter wise to TF3. I was floored by the graphics alone.

But honestly why are you bored with TF4 or 5 if you are trying to like them? R-type had cheap deaths also....... they are not cheap just b/c you must memorize a bit of the stage 1st. Almost all older 2D games required some memorization.

[sikraiken]

Yeah seriously, cheap deaths? Learn2play.

[Zeether]

TFIII? Cheap deaths?

You must not be using Sever then.

[Limbrooke]

Bad controls? What the hell does that even mean!? This isn't something subjective either, like your initial comment on TF2 looking like shit, I don't know how to compute bad controls. 3 and 4 both came out on a system that only has 3 buttons outside START so I'd say the controls are executed as well as can be with what was available. Not only but there is never a case where I've found myself upset at either game because of "I didn't do that! This damned game has spotty control, FUUUUU..." so I got nothing here man.

Also, where is 5, AC, and 1 in this assessment? I think Strider77 sums it up well as many who like the series are those who played the games when they came out. It's hard to go back and appreciate things that are now over-shadowed several times over. I don't have any significant issue with the series and as such I quite enjoy the games but that doesn't mean you have to or anyone else 'deciding' to go with a specific flow. If you don't like them, move on. Maybe one day you'll go back down the line, but otherwise it doesn't really matter what other people think.

[EinhanderZwei]

OK, here are some clarifications on what I tried to say:

'Looks like shit' = 'looks like shit compared to the games released in the same year as TFII'

'Bad controls' = 'you push the D-Pad, and the ship just jumps from right edge of the screen to the left one'

'Cheap deaths' = 'dying from the unnoticeable enemy sprite'

As for R-Type - I agree, its difficulty is plain infernal. But it has fluent controls and awesome graphics for its time, so there is something to redeem its difficulty

[Rob]

'Bad controls' = 'you push the D-Pad, and the ship just jumps from right edge of the screen to the left one'

Try lowering the ship speed, since you can do that.

Not being able to 1 life clear TF3 is a massive failure.

[mangadrive]

I was disappointed in 6 to be honest. It was just so anti-climactic and boring and it felt too much like 5 in places. I like the weapon system but it suffers from its own dilemma of giving you everything from the start. Its understandable that you have to learn how to use it,but often you can just spray and pray most of the game.

[Limbrooke]

OK, here are some clarifications on what I tried to say:

'Looks like shit' = 'looks like shit compared to the games released in the same year as TFII'

No clarification needed, however it's subjective therefore opinion. Ever seen the X68000 version? Lots of scrolling, larger sprites at times and overall nicer. Not surprising, even though both the X68000 and Genesis used the same processor that the two games don't look or sound the same. 1988 is when it was originally released and again, it's home console only. I'd like to see it put to shame by other home only games of the time.

'Bad controls' = 'you push the D-Pad, and the ship just jumps from right edge of the screen to the left one'

Seems like you're confusing bad controls with 'not knowing the controls', try changing the speed, there are after all only 3 buttons to choose from.

'Cheap deaths' = 'dying from the unnoticeable enemy sprite'

Grow a pair or get a new prescription. This isn't TFAC, where there might be some cheap deaths but not from enemies coming out of nowhere. The enemies don't change if you take the same route. Try practicing or running the game more than once.

[clp]

Thunder force 3 and 4 dont have cheap deaths but they do have parts you have to memorize , basically your trying to justify how bad you are at the games by blaming it on the games LRN2PLAY .
"bad control" in a game which offers that much ship speed control ? wut?

I was disappointed in 6 to be honest. It was just so anti-climactic and boring and it felt too much like 5 in places. I like the weapon system but it suffers from its own dilemma of giving you everything from the start. Its understandable that you have to learn how to use it,but often you can just spray and pray most of the game.

Thats why you unlock the other ships and raise the difficulty to maniac .

[elvis]

there's always something just preventing me to enjoy it!

So play something else instead.

Personal preference... what an amazing concept!

[lgb]

Also, where is 5, AC, and 1 in this assessment

hell, the only place where you'll ever find TF1C

edit: "bad controls" = "speed change button"

[szycag]

Like I've said several times in other threads, I was pretty unimpressed playing Thunder Force 3 and 4 in emulator, but it was a lot better on the real hardware. I never have compared emulated to real closely enough to tell why that is, some of the hazards just seem to stick out to the naked eye better on a television set, like in that jungle stage. Thunder Force 3 is one of my favorite games now. 4 is just as good, better really, but I never seemed to get comfortable with how tall the playing field is. I think most people are talking about 3 and 4 when they speak highly of the series. Comparing 5 and 6 is like comparing Mega Man X5 and 6. 2 is fine but is noticably one of the Genesis's first games.

[Mortificator]

This series never clicked with me either. For some reason, though, I like TF V. Give it a try, EZ; maybe it's the Thunder Force game for people who don't like Thunder Force games.

[Strider77]

I like 3 4 5 and 6...... they are the games for my personal thunder force fan....me.

[EinhanderZwei]

This series never clicked with me either. For some reason, though, I like TF V. Give it a try, EZ; maybe it's the Thunder Force game for people who don't like Thunder Force games.

I did right now. Yeah, they've fixed the over-sensitive controls. Now they're over-stiff. It's just like the series is trying to piss me off
And actually the main idea behind this topis is whatever articles/fansites/forums I google about the shmups genre in general, there are always 'Thunder Force this, Thunder Force that' parts. Even in Russian Wikipedia!

[Battletoad]

Like already said use the A button to change your ship speed in TF III and IV. In IV you can even change it precisely in %. So you shouldn´t complain there at all. I can´t imagine how the controls could have been better.

TF III is easy to 1CC, although the dodging is not that easy in certain passages. But just collect a shield and all weapons to do massive damage, then the game becomes really easy, also because of the amount of extra lives you get. Of course some memorization is needed, but that´s just natural. And I found that part less frustrating as in Tatsujin or Hellfire for example, maybe because Thunder Force doens´t have checkpoints, but instant respawning.

I just know III and IV and they both belong to my absolute favourite shooters. They´re almost perfect regarding graphics, music/sound and gameplay. With gameplay I mainly mean, the cool weapon system, the varied level design, great boss battles (ok in TF III bosses die too fast) and the speed and action. The main thing that pisses me off, is just the amount slowdown in Thunder Force IV. That should be better in the Saturn version.

[Ganelon]

Man, what happened to the days when people adjusted to ship speeds and remembered games well enough that surprise attacks were expected and no longer surprises?

[TVG]

Man, what happened to the days when people adjusted to ship speeds and remembered games well enough that surprise attacks were expected and no longer surprises?

CASUAAAAAAAAALS

[Zweihander]

Where the fuck is TF5? Also, OP should just gb2 gamefaqs forums, where his crying about "cheap deaths" (due to a lack of reflexes) will be praised, and he can then proceed to partake in the hourly Final Fantasy 7 circlejerk. Although, his tears are indeed delicious. Please, cry some more.

[EinhanderZwei]

Where the fuck is TF5?

Wait a minute, I've mentioned it a couple of posts above

Also, OP should just gb2 gamefaqs forums, where his crying about "cheap deaths" (due to a lack of reflexes) will be praised, and he can then proceed to partake in the hourly Final Fantasy 7 circlejerk. Although, his tears are indeed delicious. Please, cry some more.

I'd rather play Thunder Force 1 than FFVII At least TF1 is heterosexual

[toaplan_shmupfan]

II - 'looks like shit. Even by oldschool standards'

Actually, I find that the biggest problem with TF II is the too-fast ship speed in the overhead stages and the must-memorize traps in the horizontal stages.

III - 'lots o'cheap deaths and bad controls'

I'll agree with the lots o' cheap deaths part to a point--meaning that there are sections that must be memorized or it's a trap leading to a guaranteed loss of a ship--but the controls are not bad at all. More to the point, movement controls respond instantly and there's no inertia when the controls are released (the one exception is the underwater level and the bubble currents are still easily negotiated with the accurate movement controls). One button auto rapid fires, another button changes weapons, a third button changes ship speeds. It's actually a rather well designed control system.

IV - 'moar cheap deaths and bad controls'

So having learned from II and III that memorization is a required part of the TF series, I'd expect that IV would require memorization. That said, IV actually has the least cheap deaths in the early stages--it saves those for anything stage 7 and later.

Controls are also not bad in IV, even if there is a very slight inertia to the controls whenever the screen pans up and down (examples include Stage 1/Strite, Stage 4/Daser, Stage 5, Stage 7 with its numerous branching points, Stage 8 with its choice of up/down branching), but it's just as responsive as in III but with an even finer ship speed control system. So then one button auto rapid fires, another button changes weapons, and the ship speed button--press/release the button changes the ship speed in 25% increments, while press/hold the button changes the ship speed in 1% increments.

Also note that the game allows weapon change and ship speed change while the game is paused (and that can be useful if a player finds weapon change or ship speed too difficult without pausing, but I can do that without problems). Another feature is that the game even allows two player partnership, one player can focus on just movement while the other one uses the other controller to fire and change weapons.

[Thunder Force]

I really want to get into TF, but looks like there's always something just preventing me to enjoy it!

You were born too late for the series. Importing and playing these games when they were first released was a revelation.

Trying to discover their magic now for the first time, for most non-retro minded players these days, is probably not gonna happen.

[EinhanderZwei]

The main problem is that I am a retro-minded player

[Zweihander]

The main problem is that I am a retro-minded player

Then you should love Thunder Force 3-5. Also, keep in mind that there were OVER NINE THOUSAND shmups from that era with a button to change speeds, even in games where you didn't need it. If you don't like having a speed change button, you'll have a hard time enjoying games like Einhander, R-Type Delta, and Border Down, because unless you're one of those pro players who will leave it at max speed for the whole game, you will be using them.

[Mortificator]

Einhänder & R-Type Delta let you change speed in both directions, though. It feels more natural, to me at least.

I'd rather play Thunder Force 1 than FFVII At least TF1 is heterosexual

Square was really catering to the gay audience with Tifa.

[TVG]

I really want to get into TF, but looks like there's always something just preventing me to enjoy it!

You were born too late for the series. Importing and playing these games when they were first released was a revelation.

Trying to discover their magic now for the first time, for most non-retro minded players these days, is probably not gonna happen.

I dunno, launching TF4 on a big ass CRT screen is really something. While not as technologically advanced as say, neo geo games, it really is one of the most beautiful 2D games.

[Darkseed]

FWIW I think Thunder Force 6 is one of the best TF if played with any ship other than the default blue one. My question is: Why so much hate towards TF6?

[yosai]

'Bad controls' = 'you push the D-Pad, and the ship just jumps from right edge of the screen to the left one'

'Cheap deaths' = 'dying from the unnoticeable enemy sprite'

And you're playing these on original hardware, right?