XRGB-3

[Konsolkongen]

Have you noticed that the XRGB-3 fucks up the image in B1 mode when it thinks its running in anything but 640x480? I just noticed it when i was checking my MegaDrive image for the reply above. Here are two images taken with a shitty phone but they should prove my point:

1024x768: See how one row of pixels are much smaller than the ones next to it:


640x480: See how the pixels look much more identical in size in this one:


Strange shit since scaling should be completely off in B1 mode, right? I also don't get a picture at all if it thinks its in 1280x1024 or higher :/ It's not a big deal as long as i keep it in 640x480 but it would be cool if someone would try switching resolutions when in B1 mode and check if the same happens at yours.

[Fudoh]

From what you've shown me of your PCE, using Csync would fix your issue

for everyday use I have an Interface/CoreII setup. The interface mods can't deliver C.Sync, just composite video. I have an external sync stripper, but it doesn't really help the situation.

Have you noticed that the XRGB-3 fucks up the image in B1 mode when it thinks its running in anything but 640x480? I just noticed it when i was checking my MegaDrive image for the reply above. Here are two images taken with a shitty phone but they should prove my point:

never noticed, but on the other hand I just recently updated to 2.12 which offers 640x480 in B0. I will check this and confirm back!

I also don't get a picture at all if it thinks its in 1280x1024 or higher

I had this on earlier FW version (up to 2.07). If SXGA was selected, B1 didn't work, but every other resolution did (higher ones as well). With the 2.12 everything works....

[RGB32E]

for everyday use I have an Interface/CoreII setup. The interface mods can't deliver C.Sync, just composite video. I have an external sync stripper, but it doesn't really help the situation.

If you're referring to getting RGB from a Core Grafx II's expansion connector, CSYNC is available for use:


Do you use the same amp as what's in your Duo system you sent pictures of?

Have you noticed that the XRGB-3 fucks up the image in B1 mode when it thinks its running in anything but 640x480? I just noticed it when i was checking my MegaDrive image for the reply above. Here are two images taken with a shitty phone but they should prove my point:

never noticed, but on the other hand I just recently updated to 2.12 which offers 640x480 in B0. I will check this and confirm back!

B1 mode just plain sucks... sorry. The particular revision of the Genesis 2 I use does not display an image in B1 mode. I'm thinking if I used the 21 pin input that perhaps B1 would work.

I have tested 3 or 4 different MegaDrives (both models) on the XRGB3 and they all behave like you describe. But my current MegaDrive 2 has a pretty perfect picture without jailbars when LPF is off and is connected to the D2 input in the back. The picture is a little unstable when LPF is off though...

What is the model of the video encoder on your MD2 that works in B1 mode? Could you post a high res shot of the PCB around the video encoder of the MD2 that works in B1 mode? What is the wiring and circuitry you use to connect that MD2 to the D2 input on the XRGB-3? My Genesis 2 is wired through one of these (using CSync - not composite):

[Konsolkongen]

What is the model of the video encoder on your MD2 that works in B1 mode? Could you post a high res shot of the PCB around the video encoder of the MD2 that works in B1 mode? What is the wiring and circuitry you use to connect that MD2 to the D2 input on the XRGB-3? My Genesis 2 is wired through one of these (using CSync - not composite):

I don't know which chip is the video encoder but here is a picture of the MB:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1261488461

I installed the LEDs because the Japanese style MD2 doesn't have any indication that its on. I did it very fast and it looks like shit but when you stand above the unit you can clearly see if its on or not, and it doesn't light up the cartridge

The chips are labeled like this:

#1: MB3514 9328 M62
#2: TOSHIBA TC511632FL-10 (9331HAK)
#3: 3C4 UA HD68HC000CP8 - Pretty sure this is the CPU
#4: OKI M54C864-80 3355255
#5: SEGA 315-5660 FC1004 9328 OBEM
#6: T 9323EFI 84C00AU-6
#7: C324G 92490M29
#8: C324G 92490M29
#9: KM6264BLG-10 330Y

The RGB cable uses CSYNC, has a LM1881 installed to prevent blackouts and is connected to the D2 port with this cable i made:


I hope this helps.

Could you please explain what that PCB in your picture does?

[RGB32E]

I don't know which chip is the video encoder but here is a picture of the MB:

#1: MB3514 9328 M62

The RGB cable uses CSYNC, has a LM1881 installed to prevent blackouts and is connected to the D2 port with this cable i made:


I hope this helps.

Could you please explain what that PCB in your picture does?

Thanks for posting. The RGB encoder is the MB3514.



I suppose the main difference between what we are doing is the addition of the CD4094 Hex buffer. I could try the double buffered sync output, but, meh...

[Konsolkongen]

So it does what exactly? Amplifies the R,G,B and Sync signals?

[RGB32E]

So it does what exactly? Amplifies the R,G,B and Sync signals?

LOL...

Sync separator (LM1881) + Buffering the CSync output, and 220uF series capacitors for filtering red, green, and blue video signals. This buffer was originally intended for use with the original playstation. So, since the PS1 doesn't output sync, the LM1881 and CD4049 is used to generate a standard sync signal. The 3 220uF caps are used to filter the red, green, and blue video signals. Other signal traces were used to pass left and right audio to the other side of the PCB. This PCB was indended for use inline with a official stock SCART/JP21 cable provided from Sony. So, the same official cable that would be used for a 21 pin cable was connected to the input side (left as pictured) and the PCB was enclosed in a plastic cylinder, with a different length of cable connected to the output side (to monitor and sound input, ect).

[Fudoh]

What was the original purpose of the shown circuit ? I mean, I perfectly understand what it does, how who was targeted with it and how was is available ?

PCE RGB Mod: the mod is old, very old. I need to check the cabling within the Interface unit to see if the composite video or sync pin is tapped.

[RGB32E]

What was the original purpose of the shown circuit ? I mean, I perfectly understand what it does, how who was targeted with it and how was is available ?

The origin of the circuit is from Redmond Cable. Redmond cable used to build custom video game RGB cables to order. Here is a cached backup of their old page: http://www.connectworld.net/rcc/pages/game.html

Nintendo of America actually used to refer people to RedCab who called their customer service number asking about RGB connectivity for the SNES! When RedCab was getting out of making game cables, they had a ton of the playstation RGB cables that they couldn't technically sell, as they were acquired as part of a deal with Sony. Most were unterminated, but others had the circuit. The original purpose was to generate CSync output for monitors that wouldn't accept composite video as sync. Remember Fudoh, in the US, most 15kHz RGB monitors aside from Sony PVM REQUIRE composite sync, not composite video. Hence, the purpose of the circuit.

In the end, Redmond Cable lost money on the PS RGB cables (supposedly around $10k), as the demand wasn't very high... surprise, surprise!

[Konsolkongen]

Thanks for the explanation RGB32E i get it now

Did you find any of the information useful? Is my MegaDrive different than yours?

[cfx]

.

[RGB32E]

@Konsolkongen: I was curious to know how your Mega Drive 2 differed from my Genesis 2. The RGB encoder is different, and I cannot say from the picture how the sync differs. I will try the other output from the hex buffer to see if it is a better solution for the XRGB-3, though I don't recall the full use of the hex buffer working on my PVM-2030.

@cfx: Nice ramble! I thought the Sony PVM-xx30s were originally released in the US in the mid to late eighties! I've had my PVM-2030 for almost exactly a decade now, and started building my own cables using the pinouts from the PVM manual, and from GamesX. When I had checked prices with Redmond cable, I recall them wanting around $70 per cable! So, other than an unterminated SNES and Playstation RGB cable, I never had them build any game cables for me, as it was much cheaper to make them myself (though somewhat time consuming at first). Instead of a hex buffer, RedCab should have just used a 100uF cap in series on the CSync line for Genesis RGB cables. The RCs for RGB are necessary as well (220uF->75 ohm). Trying to fit 4 capacitors into even a DB25 hood can be a chore! I don't understand why they didn't insulate the hex buffer though... especially on a metallized/metal hood! With all of the idiosyncrasies between the various monitors and RGB outputs from systems, I would imagine it would be very hard for RedCab to get things perfect. Anyways...

Was the hex buffer something like this?

[Sabishii Hito]

I just got in my XRGB-3 yesterday, it was a REALLY quick turnaround as I ordered from Amazon Japan and had it shipped to a buddy in Japan which took only about a couple of days, he sent it via EMS on the 26th and it came on the 29th! The sheer number of options is very impressive. So far I've played with both the B0 and B1 modes with no problems. Pairing this with one of my XSelect-D4 units should let me connect all of my consoles to my PC display of choice. The one thing that I was slightly disappointed with was trying to use it on our Sony KD-36XS955 HD CRT; I attempted to use a DVI-HDMI adapter but it seems the XRGB doesn't output an HD resolution that TV can handle (it's native 480p/1080i).

[Fudoh]

but it seems the XRGB doesn't output an HD resolution that TV can handle (it's native 480p/1080i).

yes, that's right. The XRGB only offers PC resolutions. B1 through a VGA to YUV transcoder would work on your TV though.

[Sabishii Hito]

but it seems the XRGB doesn't output an HD resolution that TV can handle (it's native 480p/1080i).

yes, that's right. The XRGB only offers PC resolutions. B1 through a VGA to YUV transcoder would work on your TV though.

Isn't 1920x1080 one of the supported output resolutions though? I'll bet if I had a 1080p TV, it'd work nicely.

[RGB32E]

Isn't 1920x1080 one of the supported output resolutions though? I'll bet if I had a 1080p TV, it'd work nicely.

Yes, it's what I use. Glad to see you made it to the thread!

[Fudoh]

On paper, it does support 1080p, but RGB32E is sheer lucky that it works on his TV. The timing of the output is everything but standard and I wouldn't expect it to work on most TV sets. It does not work on my Sony LCD, nor on my Samsung. My video processor also won't accept it. If I add a Gefen VGA to DVI converter in between it works as the output timing is changed back to standard numbers....

[RGB32E]

On paper, it does support 1080p, but RGB32E is sheer lucky that it works on his TV. The timing of the output is everything but standard and I wouldn't expect it to work on most TV sets. It does not work on my Sony LCD, nor on my Samsung. My video processor also won't accept it. If I add a Gefen VGA to DVI converter in between it works as the output timing is changed back to standard numbers....

Yes, out of sheer luck, I'm able to use the 1080p output mode. Unfortunately, it only works via analog output, as my Sony XBR8 won't accept 1080p via a DVI to HDMI connection, regardless of HDMI input. However, most of the other standard output resolutions work fine with the DVI to HDMI connection on my XBR8. Hopefully Micomsoft will address the output timing issues in the next FW update.

Another thought:
I wonder if one of these would allow me to connect the DVI output at 1080p to my TV:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/produ ... &p_id=5369

It's only $40... Oh, looks like the device has problems with 1080p.... meh... I'll hope and wait for a FW fix.

[Konsolkongen]

I'm having some real problems connecting my XRGB-3 to my PC for a firmware downgrade. I've previously used Vista for upgrading the firmware but have since formatted my Vista partition.

I installed the 2.07 firmware program and the B1 1.00 firmware program and connected the XRGB-3 with USB. Vista notifies me that the device is unknown and won't work properly. As far as i can remember this didn't happen the first time i upgraded the firmware.

When i start the update program i can't press this button to begin the upgrade:


I've been trying to install XP instead on my computer but each time i get some wierd message that i should check for virus...? At the end i gave up and formatted the whole harddisk including my primary Linux partition, and installed Vista again...

But now that it has installed i still get the same error and i cannot downgrade the firmware on the XRGB-3.

Has anyone experienced anything like this before?

[akumajo]

not a virus, its because your windows dont support asian language (not installed) but you should be able to flash your xrgb3...

[Fudoh]

Sorry, I'm using XP on all machines I have. No problems whatsoever over here, up- or downgrading the XRGB. I don't think that the upgrade tool actually installs a driver for the XRGB. Even with the upgrade tool installed the XRGB shows up as an unknown device while connected.

Maybe you can install VMWare running a small XP installation ?

Happy new year 2010 to all XRGB users out there by the way

[Konsolkongen]

It turned out to be the damn cable that was loose in the XRGB end. Goddammit! I just formatted my whole computer... /retard

Well downgraded to 2.07 but still i cannot get a picture in B1 mode through my Optoma HD3000. When trying to upgrade the B1 firmware the program check summed but never did flash the XRGB. Strange but it probably wouldn't have helped anyway.

Here is the PM i sent to em0ti0n earlier this evening about my Optoma problems:

Hello. Got an Optoma HD3000 yesterday and is so far pleased with it. I am having some problems though as i can't get a picture from my XRGB-3 when its in B1 mode. In B0 i get a picture just fine.

When the XRGB-3 is in B1 mode and doesn't receive a signal the Optoma catches on and displays the XRGB's menu and the blue background. As soon as the XRGB-3 gets a signal the screen goes all blue or black (depending on bg color chosen) but the Optoma still says that its receiving a 640x480 60hz signal.

I have tried both BNC inputs and the VGA on front. I have also adjusted every thinkable option on the XRGB3 and the Optoma and nothing has helped.
I contacted Fudoh who was nice enough to test his with his XRGB-3 and he says that it works fine on his :/
I get a very nice picture from my Dreamcast in VGA so i know that the inputs are fine. I have factory reset both the XRGB-3 and Optoma several times also.

As a last attempt i tried connecting the XRGB with a VGA to HDMI transcoder but strangely that didn't work either. Exactly the same as before, B0 mode works and in B1 mode only the blue background and XRGB menu shows. When the XRGB-3 is fed a signal the Optoma immediately displays "Out of range".

I'm beginning to suspect that maybe its because of a bad firmware update on the XRGB-3. I'm working on downgrading it but atm its a bit of a problem because i'm running Linux on my pc and when running my Vista partition windows says that the XRGB-3 is unknown and can't be used :S

If you have any ideas or tips i could use please tell me as this is driving me insane

XRGB-3 is working fine with 2.07 firmware but apparently downgrading did not help getting a picture on my Optoma. Fudoh and em0ti0n has been most helpful but are as puzzled as i am, so anybody else who can help?

Happy Newyear

[cfx]

.

[em0ti0n]

XRGB-3 is working fine with 2.07 firmware but apparently downgrading did not help getting a picture on my Optoma. Fudoh and em0ti0n has been most helpful but are as puzzled as i am, so anybody else who can help?

Too bad downgrade to 2.07 didn't help

Happy new year!

[SGGG2]

Does anyone have any idea where I can get an XRGB-3? Solaris japan jacks up the price for foreigners, and Amazon.jp won't ship it overseas.

[Fudoh]

Solaris japan jacks up the price for foreigners

maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, but 299 EUR incl. free airmail shipping for a 38,640 Yen item seem pretty fair to me. If you use Amazon.jp along with a proxy and re-shipping service, you'll easily end up with the same price...

[SGGG2]

eh, I'm in the US, one euro is almost two of my dollars. The proxy services I've looked into want around 20 ~ %25 (after all of the various fees) of the purchase price. In my opinion, that's straight larceny. I don't want to support the practice. I guess I really shouldn't complain, it is what it is.

EDIT: After some more research, I've concluded the fees are within reason. Still on the high end, though.

[Sabishii Hito]

I found a PDF on Micomsoft's site describing several features since the 2.10 firmware, one of them is the low resolution setting (低解像度設定). If you set this to "On" then the output resolutions lower than 640x480 become selectable, so essentially you can force 480i games to ouput in 240p. I'm using a rather complicated setup to test this (XRGB-3 analog RGB output to 15-pin RGB input on an XSelect-D4, which is outputting via D-Terminal/Component cable to an SD Sony Wega TV). I have the Darkstalkers Collection on PS2 running right nowwhich is originally a 224p arcade game but of course the port is 480i/480p. Honestly it looks pretty ugly compared to games that already output at 240p but possibly some tweaking is needed.

[Fudoh]

one of them is the low resolution setting

in which submenu is this setting to be found ? If you could post the menu structure (e.g. 7.10 = 7th submenu, 10th option) - would be nice!

I think the general purpose of this option is a different one. I guess it was implemented to drive older, japanese PC monitors which only support sub-31khz frequencies. Nevertheless the option's interesting, so I'd like to give it a try and compare the results to those of an Emotia or UVC.

[cvaniafan]

got one of those XRGB3, not hooked it up yet.. but all these pages in this thread are worrying me... seems so complicated