confessions of a pathetic shmupper

[professor ganson]

I have two confessions to make. First, I have started playing Dragon Blaze on Easy mode. Second, I have been credit feeding ESPGaluda.

There have been three nice consequences:
1. I'm now enjoying DB and so starting to get my money's worth out of it.
2. I have now seen UNBELIEVABLY awesome parts of Galuda I would never have seen otherwise.
3. I think facing the challenging later stages of Galuda is helping me get better with Cave games more generally.

Please share any shmup-related confessions you may have so that I don't feel alone in my lameness.

[TGK]

with even higher degree of lameness, I make it a rule to credit feed til the end whenever I play a game in the arcade the first time...

Then start to practice.

Edit: rule only applies to shmups, or really good rail shooter games, like House Of The Dead series.

[crithit5000]

Another 'I suck at shmups' thread...It's that time of the week already???

[professor ganson]

Another 'I suck at shmups' thread...It's that time of the week already???

Well, I didn't say that I suck at shmups. I'm certainly a whole lot better than everyone I know. My point is more this: I'm finding that there are real advantages to playing games in ways that most people on this forum would consider lame ways of playing (e.g. playing on Easy and credit feeding).

[Icarus]

As long as the high scores you submit are on default settings and played on one credit, then no one cares how you practice

[professor ganson]

As long as the high scores you submit are on default settings and played on one credit, then no one cares how you practice

Practice? This suggests a distinction between REALLY playing and mere practicing, a distinction that had application when I played soccer as a kid. I don't practice shmups; I play them. Period. There is no end other than simply playing them for me.

Perhaps this is another way in which I'm a lame shmupper.

[crithit5000]

Another 'I suck at shmups' thread...It's that time of the week already???

Well, I didn't say that I suck at shmups. I'm certainly a whole lot better than everyone I know. My point is more this: I'm finding that there are real advantages to playing games in ways that most people on this forum would consider lame ways of playing (e.g. playing on Easy and credit feeding).

Ah, I was just messing around, anyways. Credit feeding can be fun...

[Davey]

As long as the high scores you submit are on default settings and played on one credit, then no one cares how you practice

Be careful, now: history has shown that not to be true.

On a side note, three Ohioans posting in a row. I think that's a Shmups record.

[neorichieb1971]

I watch someone else play it through, then try it myself... and fail..

[Acid King]

I've credit fed Galuda a bunch of times. Credit feeding can actually be beneficial for you when going for score because you have an idea of what's coming up next so you don't have to work blind everytime you push a bit farther in to the game.

[Davey]

Yes, credit feeding is a good way to practice the entire game. Otherwise you end up playing the first few levels a trillion times but get little exposure to the parts where you need to practice the most. Playing through 15 minutes of introductory levels so you can get a few seconds of practice against a boss isn't the most efficient use of time (not to mention it's repetitious as hell).

[iatneH]

The day I got my MVS motherboard, I fed 8 credits into Metal Slug and couldn't even finish the final mission.
Still working on finishing mission 3 on a single credit since I can more or less consistently one-life the first two missions.

[Vexorg]

I'm in the same boat. I'm still in the process of trying to 1CC Gunbird 2 for DC, and I think I'm almost there. I can get to 1-6 now, and all I really need to do from there is avoid SDS long enough to finish it. In theory, I'd continue working up to eventually 1CC Normal, but I think that's a ways off still.

[RoninBuddha]

i dont care about points.... at all, in any shmup... unless there is a reward,
my main goal is to use less credits/continues as possible... then i start to aim for a 1CC

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

Another 'I suck at shmups' thread...It's that time of the week already???

Well, I didn't say that I suck at shmups. I'm certainly a whole lot better than everyone I know. My point is more this: I'm finding that there are real advantages to playing games in ways that most people on this forum would consider lame ways of playing (e.g. playing on Easy and credit feeding).

"Playing on Easy and credit feeding"...

Thats like playing checkers with all the same colored peices! Or like playing "Tic Tac Toe" with either all X's or all O's!

[Nuke]

And I suppose watching a replay is much like reading "Advanced checkers for beginners"?
I can't see no harm nor fault, alltough it might deliver you from both the fun and frustration of learning things yourself.

[professor ganson]

Not that I've given it much thought---and I'm probably completely wrong about this---but some Treasure shooters seem to me to be intended for credit feeding. RSG and Gradius V seem to me to be epic in scale---more akin to Halo in this regard than to familiar arcade shooters (at least most shmups not by Compile). No doubt there are plenty out there who have one-lifed Halo and plenty who have 1cc'd RSG and Gradius V. But given how long these games are, these goals just seem a bit odd. I admit, though, that I can't quite put my finger on the oddness.

[Edge]

I think there is no lameness in video games.
Those games are designed to play for fun. If for someone means 6 hours DDP practice a day is fun to him. He can do that, but he should not await other players to have the same motivation or interests in gaming.

There is nothing you have to prove through gaming, I like playing for highscores because it IS fun for me. When I get frustrated and I don't improve I try to play something else...

What I want to say is, never listen to what others think of your way of playing a game. Just do what you want.

(But as Icarus mentioned, when joining the highscores please make sure to play on default settings... )

[LoneSage]

As long as I have fun in a shmup, I really don't care about credit-feeding too much. The air of danger and riskiness in the air when aiming for less credits makes the game better, tho..paradox!

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

And I suppose watching a replay is much like reading "Advanced checkers for beginners"?
I can't see no harm nor fault, alltough it might deliver you from both the fun and frustration of learning things yourself.

Watching a replay and memorizing it, is like playing Resident Evil with a walkthrough/guide all the way. (Which way should I go, which weapon should I use...what should I look out for?) GHEY! Sounds like a pussy to me? You are no longer thinking for yourself, but instead allowing yourself to be a "sheep".
Fucking Lame IMO! Where's the fun? Where's the challenge!?

A video game is a personal challenge first and foremost...if you take that away, why even play?

I would rather suck at a shmup, rather than have someone "hold my hand" throughout the whole game.


"Deliver you from both Fun and Frustration"....
Thats what gaming is all about! You take that away, and you have nothing.
Monkey see, monkey do...whoop-de-do!

Example...
I could spend 10 hours watching a replay video of Ikaruga, just so I can "try" to play just like it.
Hey, thats SO much fun!
Personally, I'll benefit MUCH more from simply playing and enjoying the game myself, on my own terms.

Some of you guys need to realize, that some shmups ,you will never beat.
Even with the aid of replay video's...
Just accept this and play and enjoy.
You don't need to beat every game out there to "prove yourself".


Ok, I'm not trying to be a dick...its like this...
Replays are like having someone else do your homework.
It might be cool at first, but you ain't challenging yourself, or learning a darn thing.
Sorry to disagree, but thats my opinion, and I stand behind it completely

[Nemo]

A wiseman once said, "Those who watch replays are the Ashley Simpsons of shmups." That dude was deep.

[Rob]

We need to have an intervention for replay abusers.

[neorichieb1971]

What is the purpose of buying a superplay DVD? Why do people make them?

In everything I do I copy, I never innovate. I got exactly where I am now in life by people telling me how to do stuff. Thats why I went to school in the first place, how I learnt how to drive.

I only try something different once I have the template to work from.

I would rather someone in the arcades put their $150 of practice in the machine and show me how to do it with $10.

[marcus12024]

I enjoy checking out replays/superplays, but only after I've spent a significant amount of time with the game. For me the thrill of playing is constantly getting a little bit further, finding an easier way through a difficult part, or just pulling off something extraordinary.

Basically, for me replays are like a gameshark (or any other cheat device) - I'll only use them once I'm fairly confident I've had enough normal play time. They just help to extend the life of a game for me. For example, after I've 1CC'ed a shmup, I'll watch a replay of it with my buddy, and then we'll both try to work the new strategies into our playing style.

But I don't care if others use replays in a different way - to each his own!

[Icarus]

This "replays make you play better" argument is total rubbish. You forget that those watching the replays need to have enough skill to somewhat reproduce the replay strategy, before it makes them better. There is no guarantee that a player watching a replay for tips can ever hope to recreate some of the higher level strategies of the Japanese masters, and replays can contain just as much bad strategy as good.

Haven't we had this debate before?

[SheSaidDutch]

And I suppose watching a replay is much like reading "Advanced checkers for beginners"?
I can't see no harm nor fault, alltough it might deliver you from both the fun and frustration of learning things yourself.

I'm not too hot at shmups myself
I can finally make It to level 3 on Gradius I

Gradius 2-Level 2 is a pain for me atm

Gradius 3-Level 3(Arcade via mame atm)

I haven't really spent enough time with them really either

OT somewhat---Since I watched the Diego (sp) reply of SF3:3rd Strike I gave up playing the game,I know I should just have fun but still (I'm totally crap at parrying)

I used to have the DC version, I might pick up the PS2 rev soon with STF2.

I know I'm never gonna look at a replay ever again but If I got "served" while playing someone I wouldn't mind as much because I would learn something from the experience.

[BUHA]

I think Twitchdoctor comes off as being a jerk to some people, but I totally agree with everything he's said on this post.

For me, it's just way more fun and rewarding to play that way. Even if I die a thousand times on the same spot, I think it's worth it. I just feel this is how they were meant to be played, especially since your score resets after you continue. That's a dead giveaway.

[professor ganson]

I think Twitchdoctor comes off as being a jerk to some people, but I totally agree with everything he's said on this post.

For me, it's just way more fun and rewarding to play that way. Even if I die a thousand times on the same spot, I think it's worth it. I just feel this is how they were meant to be played, especially since your score resets after you continue. That's a dead giveaway.

I am sympathetic with Twitch's perspective too. And yet, at the same time I cannot deny that there are certain rewards/advantages to credit feeding, etc. I mean, think about how incredible Galuda gets in later stages. I might never have known about this otherwise.

[Acid King]

What is the purpose of buying a superplay DVD? Why do people make them?

In everything I do I copy, I never innovate. I got exactly where I am now in life by people telling me how to do stuff. Thats why I went to school in the first place, how I learnt how to drive.

I only try something different once I have the template to work from.

I would rather someone in the arcades put their $150 of practice in the machine and show me how to do it with $10.

Taking a drivers ed class is like reading a game manual. It explains how the game works but you don't really learn to drive until you sit in a car and drive. In school, people explain, then you do, but your performance is dependent on your understanding and implementing what they say, it's not just blind copying because the problems on your homework are not the ones explained thoroughly in the book or by your teacher. Icarus is right.

Replay vids aren't synonmyous with strategy guides for stuff like Resident Evil or Final Fantasy. Those games aren't based on pure skill and reaction like shooters are. They have set challenges like puzzles and mazes and boss fights where there is only one correct approach. Just because a kid can beat FF X with a walkthrough doesn't mean he'll ever be able to one life clear both loops of DOJ cause he has a superplay DVD. That's difficult no matter what you do. Personally I think using vids is a short cut, but it really isn't the same a walkthrough for an RPG or a survival horror game.

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

I think Twitchdoctor comes off as being a jerk to some people, but I totally agree with everything he's said on this post.

For me, it's just way more fun and rewarding to play that way. Even if I die a thousand times on the same spot, I think it's worth it. I just feel this is how they were meant to be played, especially since your score resets after you continue. That's a dead giveaway.

I am sympathetic with Twitch's perspective too. And yet, at the same time I cannot deny that there are certain rewards/advantages to credit feeding, etc. I mean, think about how incredible Galuda gets in later stages. I might never have known about this otherwise.

Thanks, I'm glad someone agree's with my sense of perspective every once in a while.
Even though I may have certian ways of describing my feelings, its not a personal attack on anyone.
I just really think that the use of replay video's to learn how to play a game is lame.
I'm directly refering to some shmup-heads I ran into at Gamefaqs. They were supposidly tearing into the "Appreciate DVD" before even playing the game.
Some of their posts would read like this..."I'm finally learning to chain just like in the replay"...blah,blah, blah..
As if the replay vid was part of the game; to memorize.
Like I said, Monkey see, monkey do.

Strategy discussion is ok, but when someone simply learns to play from a video, then somethings wrong.
I also think people who go out and buy a game, and buy the "GuideBook" at the same time, are lame too. Or like watching a movie with someone who keeps telling you whats about to happen next.
There should be that element of "discovery". Trial and error, but with replay vids and guidebook's...its all layed out for you. (i.e no surprises!)