Sequel dat make da 1st crap(u cry when u play day original)

[agustusx]

Sorry for the slang, was reaching character limit in title.

Today I tried to play Mushi for the first time after Futari was delivered. The game looks so BLURRY and SHITTY I damn near cried. Some of you are thinking "Dawg, just play that bitch and have fun". Meanwhile I'm screaming its UGLY and I'm in tears. The stage 5 slowdown has always been a clusterfuck but now I'm agitated and can't deal with it. I have been enlightened and can't go back. I don't want one of my favorite games going to the waste-side due to a sub-par conversion!

I remember Mushihimesama was THE game that made me buy a video converter to play it on a CRT via RGB. Mushi looked crappy and was hard to play on an LCD due to the vague lines in sprites and projectiles. But after I invested in a CRT, VGA converter and stick the game was much more enjoyable. Games like Dragon Blaze on the PS2 always looked sharper than Mushi, but I was happy with the improvement I got with the new hardware. Last year this time Mushihimesama PS2 WAS my favorite shmup bar-none. Last year I was thinking of geting a Futari PCB, but now I think I would be better off with a Mushihimesama PCB!

Sometimes sequels are the replacement to original efforts, but in the case of Donpachi I like the simple first game better for the fact of simplicity. I do respect the DoDonpachi releases, but I never thought they REPLACED Donpachi because of how difficult/complex they became. I love the original Mushihimesama stage 3 so much there is no replacement for it in Futari. Similarly I love the Galactic Attack/(whatever you Euros and J-folk call it) more than the subsequent release.

I am sure many of you have gone through this with your preferred franchises. Care to share?

EDIT: Its worth noting I am playing the console releases of the games I mention.

[Kollision]

I sort of get your point.
Mushihime-sama is also one of my favorite shooters ever, and I don't think I'd be that disappointed going back to it after having a taste of Futari...
And what's wrong with playing console releases anyway?

[linko9]

Gunbird 2 for me. Granted, I played 2 before 1, but still. Great improvement. Also, if you can consider Ikaruga a sequel to RS, I vastly preferred Ikaruga, though I didn't much like RS even when it came out.

[honorless]

I know technically Futari is a prequel to the original Mushihimesama

I really don't think this is the case...

Anyway, after playing Raiden IV I sold my copy of III because I knew I'd never touch it again. That's pretty much it for me.

And what's wrong with playing console releases anyway?

Nothing. Futari's port just does a great job of preserving the original visuals, unlike Mushi's port. The vast improvement in image quality makes its predecessor look even worse, which is what agustus here is lamenting.

[dmauro]

I haven't been able to play Mushi ever since I patched it for 240p and put the PS2 in my cab. The background image tearing and blurrines, the color is off (I think that might be the PS2's fault though), and it just looks like shit. I used to love it, but I got spoiled from playing too much ESPGaluda and DOJ.

[agustusx]

And what's wrong with playing console releases anyway?

Nothing at all, but I wanted to note my opinions were based on my experiences with the ports and not the PCBs.

I know technically Futari is a prequel to the original Mushihimesama

I really don't think this is the case...

Ok thats fine I read it wrong somewhere or someone else spoke incorrectly. I don't understand the language and I have to believe random internet ramblings. Reco however does not have a penis no matter what anyone says. I've seen a few statuettes that confirm this But its quite possible Larissa does.

[Jockel]

Reco however does not have a penis no matter what anyone says.

Dude it's "Futari", not "Futanari".

[Herr Schatten]

Reco however does not have a penis no matter what anyone says.

Dude it's "Futari", not "Futanari".

Shh ...don't give Cave any ideas.

[dmauro]

I still think caved missed out on a good opportunity not calling ESPGaluda II "ESPGaluda Futanari".

[EinhanderZwei]

On topic: PCE Star Soldier games made me throw the NES one in the trashcan

[adversity1]

Haven't played enough of EspGaluda II to say for sure but I think some would make the claim that the first one was a better game.

I definitely agree with your Futari sentiments.

Playing Daifukkatsu made me never want to touch Daioujou again.

However I would say Ibara is a better game than Pink Sweets.

Raiden IV was boring and made me want to try RFA instead.

Deathsmiles 2 versus 1...lol.

In my book, most of the CAVE black labels are better than the original product (Deathsmiles is an exception).

[Skykid]

Playing Daifukkatsu made me never want to touch Daioujou again.

[emphatic]

At first after playing hours of ESPGALUDA then trying to pick up ESP RaDe I felt that the older title was basically unplayable. But now I really like RaDe. Not as much as ESPGALUDA though, but ESP RaDe is an awesome game and the point blank scoring is the closest thing to Ketsui I can play right now.

Futari VS Mushihime-Sama is a whole other deal though. At least as console versions are concerned.

[agustusx]

Reco however does not have a penis no matter what anyone says.

Dude it's "Futari", not "Futanari".

I'm aware of that, however I don't think the fan-art community does.

So last night I tried Mushi on the pcsx emulator again and even with the improvements you get there visually, it's still not captivating me. It also has it's own visual issues that I used to deal with that now irk me to the point of distraction. The slowdown isn't consistent with the PS2 port but that is to be expected.

I never really liked the Mushihimesama's scoring system anyway, so I can't exactly go back to play with that motivation. Only time I improved my score is when I survived longer...

I'm getting incredibly spoiled with the multple gameplay modes you got with DS and Futari on the 360. Going back to one arcade and one arrange version seems so 2005.

[EinhanderZwei]

For me, DoDonPachi doesn't actually kill DonPachi, mostly because I consider them kinda different in terms of gameplay. DonPachi feels more like Raiden-on-steroids, but DoDonPachi... Yeah, that's the one that started it all

[Zweihander]

Dodonpachi makes the original Donpachi look like crap. Then again, MOST shmups from that era made the original Donpachi look like crap. DOWN PATCH

[Momijitsuki]

I know technically Futari is a prequel to the original Mushihimesama

No it isn't.

[Ebbo]

After Gradius V, all previous Gradius games I'd played before started to feel a bit dull and too frustrating. Although V isn't as varied when it comes to stage designs, it's the most enjoyable one of the bunch hands down. Then again, I've never had a chance to play Gaiden...

[Skykid]

Dodonpachi makes the original Donpachi look like crap. Then again, MOST shmups from that era made the original Donpachi look like crap. DOWN PATCH

This thread is total nonsense. Donpachi and Dodonpachi are both great - they're just different. Is Outzone shit because it's old, is Garegga crap because Bakraid was slightly less punishing?

Mushihimesama is a terrific game, and I'd say it has elements over Futari. The PS2 port is pretty crappy, but I wouldn't judge any game based on it's port. Arcade hardware often tells a different tale.

[Mad Mage]

At first after playing hours of ESPGALUDA then trying to pick up ESP RaDe I felt that the older title was basically unplayable. But now I really like RaDe. Not as much as ESPGALUDA though, but ESP RaDe is an awesome game and the point blank scoring is the closest thing to Ketsui I can play right now.

Futari VS Mushihime-Sama is a whole other deal though. At least as console versions are concerned.

ESPRaDe plays so differently than ESPGaluda 1 or 2, that while they are technically sequels, comparisons aren't very fair. I think ESPRaDe is unique enough of a shmup to always be fun. Donpachi and Dodonpachi feel dated though.

One thing about getting into cave shmups, is it really ruined any fun I have playing Euro-shmups or pretty much anything pre-'95.

Oh, and I still love the first mushihimesama despite futari being better.

[Zweihander]

Donpachi

great

ITT, low standards. DOWN PATCH was more forgettable than Raiden III...

[doctorx0079]

On topic: PCE Star Soldier games made me throw the NES one in the trashcan

What?! I love that game! Send me yours.

[Skykid]

Donpachi

great

ITT, low standards.

If you say so.

[Mortificator]

I'm surprised to say this, both because I usually don't think of sequels as obsoleting their predecessors and because the original game is one of the first shooter's I've played, but Xevious Arrangement has pretty much totally supplanted vanilla Xevious for me.

[Ed Oscuro]

Galaga makes all Galaxian bleed rat feces. Galaga '88 almost does the same, but Galaga's more focused levels keep it a winner IMO. Don't put me down on the short list of Space Invaders admirers, but I also somewhat like Space Invaders '91; Return of Invaders is interesting too.

Tiger Heli definitely got supplanted by KT / Twin Cobra; it's still a cool game but the 50K point trick is hideous game design. Also fake-3D backdrop geometry trying to look like Captain Skyhawk or something - well, there's worse things out there.

Battle Mania is a fun enough game, but the second is getting closer to being a real shooter. It also isn't eye-blisteringly ugly.

Twin Eagle II has the goods over Twin Eagle 1, it's strangely odder to play though. Both are put in their place by Thundercade / Twin Formation, which has both motorcycles AND building collapses galore.

Strangely, I don't think this applies to Nemesis 1 Game Boy vs. Interstellar Assault; there's no logical argument to be made for Nemesis 1 other than "I can loop it for hours, so it provides hours of mindless entertainment" yet it's still fun (any guesses why?)

Capcom made an awful lot of shooters I don't enjoy but I think that Section Z is definitely better than Son Son. 1943 Kai seems better than earlier outings in the series, but 19XX is probably my favorite from that series. That's not saying much since I consider them all to have compromised designs.

Similarly, NMK's Jaleco-licensed (and possibly distributed) Mega System 32 cartridge of P-47 Aces is a profound ramp-up in adrenaline over the original produced under the NMK brand. (^_~)

I also prefer (so far) DOWN PATCH to BU BOB PATCHY 2 although I'm doubtful I'll ever "come around" for those two titles. ESP Grating and Disco Inferno are where it's at, currently.

Hmm, I'm almost having an easier time thinking of sequels that disappoint. FixEight, Tatsujin Oh (I like the second more, but have to give it up to da 1st, props, also why am I writing in fake jive), Twin Cobra II (cool game though), Daioh was better than Koukouoh (or is that Cheeseoh?)

[agustusx]

It seems a least a few others like have a rare situation where they find a sequel to replace the original based on gameplay merits. But I agree with the consensus is that that is NOT the norm, usually if a shmup is good day 1, its good day 100,001.

This thread is total nonsense...
Mushihimesama is a terrific game, and I'd say it has elements over Futari. The PS2 port is pretty crappy, but I wouldn't judge any game based on it's port. Arcade hardware often tells a different tale.

I'm critiquing games based on my experiences I don't see that as nonsense. You may not judge games based on ports, but I'm sure you understand for many ports are their only way. And I am really lamenting Mushi right now because I do believe the arcade version would be a better experience. I did say "i would be better off with a Mushihimesama PCB". Maybe 70% of my bitching was due to technical issues. But I did mention other reasons like scoring as well.

[Jon]

I guess it's not saying much but I thought Shiki II pretty much rendered the first game obsolete.

[BIL]

I keep hearing Avid Merrion's Michael Jackson reading that topic title...

I've never bothered much with Gunbird, having played GB2 first. Both games' aesthetics are among the very few to actually annoy me (dumb characters, tinkly muzak, pretty but generic stages) but GB2's coin chaining is addictive as hell and it's so fast-paced that you can't dwell on the superficial. GB just sends me running for either Sengoku Ace or Strikers 1945, both of which differ enough from both GB and their own sequels (if only just in the latter's case) to not feel redundant.

[lgb]

I have been enlightened and can't go back.

or you may have been deluded, don't rule that out

Sometimes sequels are the replacement to original efforts

sounds like a bad mindset to have in general

on the other hand, you have this

Also, if you can consider Ikaruga a sequel to RS, I vastly preferred Ikaruga, though I didn't much like RS even when it came out.

which is just as bad

Nothing at all, but I wanted to note my opinions were based on my experiences with the ports and not the PCBs.

fix this

Dude it's "Futari", not "Futanari".

I'm aware of that, however I don't think the fan-art community does.

that's why it's a fanart community

Is Outzone shit because it's old, is Garegga crap because Bakraid was slightly less punishing?

that is correct

ESPRaDe plays so differently than ESPGaluda 1 or 2, that while they are technically sequels, comparisons aren't very fair.

iirc in terms of story Espgaluda is intended to be a prequel to Esprade, but in what way seems like a joke

I think ESPRaDe is unique enough of a shmup to always be fun. Donpachi and Dodonpachi feel dated though.

of course since, you know, Esprade never had a game that wants to replace it and does in just about every area

ITT, low standards. DOWN PATCH was more forgettable than Raiden III...

itt high standards

[Ed Oscuro]

Don't be calling OutZone crap if you don't want a bottle broken in your eye. O_o