Netbook Question: Win XP to Win 7 Starter upgrade?

[SuperGrafx]

Hi all,

I'm looking at a Lenovo S10 Netbook. Specs seem comparable to most offerings from Asus, Acer, HP and all the other competitors. I like the design and feel of the Lenovo best.

The only downside is that the model I'm looking at buying comes preinstalled with Windows XP. I'd really like to get Win 7 Starter.
Can this be upgraded easily considering they don't see Windows 7 Starter in stores (at least from where I've checked).

Thanks.

[iatneH]

XP is quite fine as it is for netbooks. Any particular reason you want to change the OS?

This will not answer your question, but personally I would not buy anything with an Atom processor right now, with the new-ish Intel ULV systems already out. For around the same price as that S10, you might be able to get a system with a dual-core Celeron, better (still integrated) graphics, and Windows 7 Home Premium already installed.

I recently got an Acer 1810T (Core2Duo SU7300 model) and I think it's really excellent, but to be fair it's roughly double the price... but Hell, I can run SSF on this thing (had to install an XP partition for it).

[Warp_Rattler]

Hold out a few months if you really want something with some bang. Lenovo has leaked information on two potentially ultra low-cost Thinkpads to debut early next year, rumored to be right around the $500 price range (not too much more than most Ideapads) for something with a bit more kick than your standard netbook. We're talking Athlon Neo or dual-core Turion processors (with Radeon HD3200 graphics), a total of 4MB of RAM, and a keyboard that, while it appears to be of the increasingly common chiclet variety, boasts "legendary Thinkpad feel". Windows 7 Home Premium is a viable option on both of them, and 64-bit versions will supposedly available on the Turion-based Edge model as well.

Thinkpad x100e

Thinkpad Edge

EDIT: That's 4GB of RAM, not MB. These are modern machines, not ones you use to show your friends how the magic of Windows 3.1 will banish that terrible C prompt from your life forever.

[Stormwatch]

I'd really like to get Win 7 Starter.

Wait, wait... you WANT to get Starter?

[Ed Oscuro]

a total of 4MB of RAM

Woohoo, this means you can play DOOM!

I don't know what limitations Microsoft rolled back on Starter (the infamous three applications running at a time limit has been rolled back, and see here for what that would have entailed), but there are some REALLY bad ones in there still, if this article from last month is accurate.

Sixty-one percent of consumers do not know that Windows 7 Starter lacks some features standard in any version of Windows XP, such as support for multiple monitors, DVD playback -- even the ability to change the desktop image from the Microsoft logo, according to a survey by electronics shopping site Retrevo.com.

So, if you want to ever plug your netbook into a projector, or watch a DVD - looks like Starter is not the way to go. It still ought to be limited to using 2GB RAM.

I'd be looking at the windowsteamblog.com article on Win 7, but their site failed and is down so it looks like we're just getting the CW take on it. Oh noes!

Bottom line, Win7 is an even bigger cesspool of fail than I had imagined so I have to agree with Stormie here. Stay away.

[Warp_Rattler]

a total of 4MB of RAM

Woohoo, this means you can play DOOM!

DOH! I meant GB, obviously. I think my very first computer had 4MB. Man, when I upgraded to 8MB and could finally play Dark Forces... There was no more awesome day in the history of my using computers.

That aside, Win7 is pretty amazing. Just... not Starter. Obviously. I'm not quite sure about the cesspool of fail either; I'd say it's everything Vista wasn't, but then again I missed the nerd memo and didn't realize I was supposed to be hating on Vista its entire lifespan. I actually enjoyed it; with the caveats of once you killed the UAC and upgraded to SP1 it was a nice stable OS to be running on a semi-modern machine.

[Stormwatch]

Protip: give the penguin a chance!

• The best netbook-friendly Linux distros
• Top 5 netbook Linux distributions
• Top ten Linux distros for your netbook
• The best Linux distro for your netbook

[ED-057]

the increasingly common chiclet variety

Chiclet keyboards are back!? Can you load games from cassette tape too?

[Ed Oscuro]

Protip: give the penguin a chance!

I'm surprised you didn't take the chance to lay penguin droppings all over the thread earlier.

Protip: there's no article in that list named "why Linux is better for netbooks than Windows," because so far it hasn't been - starter excluded; a lot of people are gonna be turned off Windows by that garbage.

[Warp_Rattler]

the increasingly common chiclet variety

Chiclet keyboards are back!? Can you load games from cassette tape too?

At least that would be defensible with some sort of retro appeal to the dawn of personal computing. Instead it's the manufacturers saying "hey, Apple has that keyboard on their Macbooks and they never fail at design ever!" and suddenly laptop keyboards are even crappier than usual. It's a special sort of blasphemy when the one manufacturer known for decent laptop keyboards climbs aboard the me-too wagon.

[Stormwatch]

Protip: there's no article in that list named "why Linux is better for netbooks than Windows,"

My bad, I forgot that one. Here goes:

• 10 reasons Linux should be your netbook operating system

[iatneH]

I'm triple-booting XP Pro x86 / Win7 Ultimate x64 / Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 on my notebook. There's almost nothing I actually want to do in Linux that I can't do better in Windows. I basically just finished installing the Linux OS, booted up to set Grub default to Windows, and never went back into Linux again, but I have it there *just in case* I want to use it in the future.

Anyway, my recommendation still holds, I would say it's more sensible to buy a note/netbook which ships with Win7 installed already. They don't cost that much more than the XP models, but will run circles all around those in terms of performance.

[SuperGrafx]

I'd really like to get Win 7 Starter.

Wait, wait... you WANT to get Starter?

The answer is simple. My company requires that all computers and netbooks used in their corporate environment utilize Windows 7 as the OS. Thus, I need my netbook to have it pre-installed or at the very least upgradeable...that was my reason for asking.

I have no desire to run Linux in any shape or form. I need this netbook to be up and running using a business-standard OS. Wasn't exactly impressed with the Xandros distro on my earlier EEEPC, so no thanks.

[Ed Oscuro]

In any case, you'll almost certainly be better off with the OS in the tier above Starter. Unfortunately an upgrade from Starter to something better is $80...yech.

[t0yrobo]

In any case, you'll almost certainly be better off with the OS in the tier above Starter. Unfortunately an upgrade from Starter to something better is $80...yech.

One option would be to track down a student, or anyone with a college email address, and use them to get the pro version for only $30.

[Stormwatch]

Wasn't exactly impressed with the Xandros distro on my earlier EEEPC, so no thanks.

From what I've seen, indeed, Xandros doesn't look too good. KDE always feels quite wrong to my eyes, always a poor Windows rip-off. You should try a nice Gnome-based distro (such as Ubuntu, Mint, or Fedora) before dismissing Linux entirely.

[null1024]

If you've used any distro other than Ubuntu or Fedora, you won't be impressed if you're looking for something that Just Works (tm), leave me the hell alone, I just want to start up, connect to the wifi [Ubuntu is really good in this regard, although you may have to hope and pray, or punt and work out trying to get Ndiswrapper setup], and work.


Also, Windows 7 in a business already? Damn, that's odd, most companies don't seem to go bleeding edge like that; hell, only just recently [and I mean JUST recently, like right before Windows 7 came out] have I seen Vista machines really start to pop up in a business environment, and most seem to have stayed with XP because of the [supposed [slowness on decent hardware] and actual [sound problems, apps breaking, slowness on older hardware]] problems Vista has.

tl;dr:
If even thinking Linux, Ubuntu. I expresses shock at such soon adoption of Win7 in a business.

Oh, and don't get Starter, no point really in limiting yourself like that.
Although, bloody hell, Windows is *expensive*. Granted, no one really buys Windows retail, but still.

[Ed Oscuro]

Also, Windows 7 in a business already? Damn, that's odd, most companies don't seem to go bleeding edge like that

It may be that they were stretching XP's lifespan out a bit and wanted to get into a new OS as soon as possible.

@ t0yrobo:
I actually know a college student very well He's not taking orders for other peoples' OSes though.

[Stormwatch]

If even thinking Linux, Ubuntu.

How about Mint? It's pretty much Ubuntu + tweaked interface + cool stuff (like Flash and Compiz) preinstalled. A nice choice for migrating Windows users.

[Enhasa]

On-topic: I don't recommend anyone who is happy with Windows or would be best served by Windows (almost all gamers) to bother with Linux, but along with thin clients, netbooks are an area where it makes sense. If you use your netbook as intended, you won't be gaming or using Office or whatever anyway. And you can use a lightweight Linux distro (XP on an EEEPC is a laggy unresponsive nightmare), and run entirely off a flash drive or in RAM if you want. Plus Windows costs money and the components required for Windows to run decently cost money, and the entire purpose of a netbook is to be cheaper than a laptop.


I felt like writing an overly harsh response about "stop proselytizing, besides, you're only turning people off with your religious fervor" and "why is KDE a Windows rip-off anyway? because by default the "start button" comes at the bottom instead of the top?" and many other things, but that would be dumb. (I've used many different OS's and distros over the years, so I guess I'm like a grumpy old man when I see kids riding the Ubuntu wave because it's hip and they can't afford a Mac, or people who love posting screens of their desktop eye candy, or just Linux users who don't know how to use the command line. Talking about people IRL, not speculating about people in this thread. I've never responded to a post about Linux online before, but throwing KDE under the bus just to continue pimping Linux was too much for me.)

From what I've seen, indeed, Xandros doesn't look too good. KDE always feels quite wrong to my eyes, always a poor Windows rip-off. You should try a nice Gnome-based distro (such as Ubuntu, Mint, or Fedora) before dismissing Linux entirely.

The version of Xandros in the EEEPC is a special modified version by ASUS, using IceWM (not KWin), and not like the normal Xandros distro. GNOME is built on the principle of simplicity über alles. You can only have one top priority and it wins out vs being usable or functional every time. Besides, the look and feel doesn't come down to the desktop environment but to the window manager and themes, icons, wallpaper, etc. When you say you like how GNOME looks over KDE, you mean Metacity over KWin. But many people use Compiz or something else with both anyway. My point is not actually KDE vs GNOME but simply that if you want to decide between Windows or Linux (or Mac OS or BSD or Solaris or anything else), the issues that shape your decision are big ones like "do I need to run OS-specific software like games?" and not your choice of desktop environment or window manager.

The one thing I think is weird is how some people are GNU devotees and use Emacs and GNOME, whereas others are the opposite and use vi or nano and KDE, which philosophically doesn't make much sense if you claim to want functionality first sometimes but simplicity first other times. There are other examples but that one always stuck out to me.

If even thinking Linux, Ubuntu.

Ubuntu has the Windows-like advantage of being the most popular, but I'd stay away from any group that puts politics or ideological purity as its top priority, over things like ease of use and working out of the box. Ubuntu is like MAME32UI. Debian is like base MAME. Good starting distros are PCLinuxOS or Mint (based on Ubuntu), which are more like MAMEPlus or MAMEUIFX. Most gamers/end users don't care about the religious stuff developers do, like "real arcade games don't have autofire" or "Flash isn't free software." They just want their wrists not to hurt or to be able to watch YouTube. Ubuntu is #1 in popularity solely due to politics and marketing. It's more socially acceptable for institutions like schools to go with a not-yet-for-profit company preaching utopian ideals backed by an international business jet set space travel billionaire.

Politics and purity are everywhere in the Linux world. GNOME only exists because for the first year of its existence back in 1997, Qt wasn't GPL yet. To this day, purists still prefer GNOME over KDE because for the first two years of its existence, KDE dared sully itself by using non-GPL Qt. By extension, purists prefer the distros that come with GNOME by default, even though you could put either in them. Also Novell (the SUSE guys) and Mandriva, whose distros both default with KDE, entered into agreements with Microsoft (who is the evil enemy!!!), even though those agreements meant nothing and will never amount to anything. And even though Novell does way more good for the free software movement than any other single company.


Awesome thing that made reading this thread all worth it: I skimmed through one of the linked articles (by the way, all those articles were terrible, like 99% of tech stuff online) and saw this comment by Miguel de Icaza (the guy who started GNOME and Mono and wrote Gnumeric).

Pleasantly surprised that Ubuntu didnt invent user friendly?
Is that even possible?

Suse and Mandriva were doing easy desktops when flyboy was going to the moon. Only difference is those two companies are living in the real world and are run to make money.

But hey, if you have a podcast and you just discovered some distros, good for you.

Now, if we can just get you to call Ubuntu a british distro and Suse or Red Hat an american one, then the rest of the grade 7 comp will be over.

Besides loving seeing people break up circlejerks and make fun of dumb articles, I also love seeing Hispanics (like mz at tasvideos) always attacking white Anglocentrics online and support them wholeheartedly. No sarcasm. It's too bad stuff like this always fails. Give em hell!