XRGB-3

[RGB32E]

I built a JP21 RGB cable using official cable stock, but did not include 220uF capacitors on red, green, and blue. The picture quality is overall better if I just remove the XRGB-3 from the equation and connect directly to my XBR8 via component! I get better contrast, color detail and sharpness when connecting directly to my TV. Also, the opposite of drop shadows looks way better when connected directly to the TV (e.g. flashing silhouette in Contra: Shattered Soldier). I'm having a hard time finding a reason to use the XRGB-3 with any playstation system, unless scanlines are desired (I think I've stated this before).

[Fudoh]

Why would a Playstation system perform differently on your TV set compared to any other RGBs source transcoded to Component before feeding it your TV ? No critic, just trying to understand. I'd imagine that our two TVs have very similar quality for videogame content...

[RGB32E]

Why would a Playstation system perform differently on your TV set compared to any other RGBs source transcoded to Component before feeding it your TV ? No critic, just trying to understand. I'd imagine that our two TVs have very similar quality for videogame content...

To be more specific:
-For PS2 games running at 480i, I prefer a component connection directly to my TV over RGB through the XRGB-3 in B1 or B0 mode.
-For PS1 games running at 240p, I prefer using my 60GB PS3, as the scaling is clearer than with the XRGB-3 in B0 mode (not a huge difference, but a cleaner image none the less.
-For PS2 games running at 240p... uhhh not sure if I own any that do, though I'm aware of their existence!
-For PS2 games running at 480p, I prefer using a RGsB to RGBHV converter (extron box). I haven't checked to see if the D2 VGA input handles SoG (RGsB)... From what's been posted, the game input doesn't handle SoG or VGA/480p?

[Fudoh]

I concur, sir!

240p on the PS2 would go to the XRGB-3 though. Not much of a difference than running any other 240p system.

For PS2 games running at 480p, I prefer using a RGsB to RGBHV converter (extron box). I haven't checked to see if the D2 VGA input handles SoG (RGsB)... From what's been posted, the game input doesn't handle SoG or VGA/480p?

It does when set to Component, not when set to RGB. Since I *really* can't see any downside to outputting 480p component instead of RGsB, I'm fine with this.

[RGB32E]

I concur, sir!

240p on the PS2 would go to the XRGB-3 though. Not much of a difference than running any other 240p system.

For PS2 games running at 480p, I prefer using a RGsB to RGBHV converter (extron box). I haven't checked to see if the D2 VGA input handles SoG (RGsB)... From what's been posted, the game input doesn't handle SoG or VGA/480p?

It does when set to Component, not when set to RGB. Since I *really* can't see any downside to outputting 480p component instead of RGsB, I'm fine with this.

Yup, "240p" conversion is what the XRGB-3 does best (other than the PS1 on PS3 exception).

Using my Extron CVC200, I have the option of converting RGsB or Component (among other variations) to RGBHV. When I tested 480p from the PS2 using both component and RGsB, I found that I got a better picture (improved color purity) by using RGsB instead of component.

[darthcloud]

Finally got my stuff to build the baku's amp for N64 and I think it's the best one for an X-RGB setup.

Also I gave another try to XRGB-3 B0 mode with my new TV and I have to say that I don't get much lag (unlike with my previous TV) , but however the picture is a lot better! Also tried B0 over HDMI but the picture I get is all mess up on low resolution, I think my TV don't like "PC" res over HDMI. But since the TV do a better job than the XRGB for scaling I'm just leaving it on VGA input.

I'm using both snes and n64 with an AFC of 5. I think I'm just going to leave it on B0 just to not alway had to change the AFC setting .

Going to build another baku's amp for my New Famicom .

[darthcloud]

RGB32E did you try any 480i n64 game with the baku amp?

My picture get all messup when (I think) the output is 480i.

Like Star Wars Rogue Squadron with expansion pak enable is 480i for sure and all the picture is messup, but when I disable expansion pack the picture is fine in gameplay (but menu still messup)

I got the same kind of problem with perfect dark and DK64 intro, but gameplay is fine (maybe intro of both is in 480i for some reason??)

Going to try rgb alone without amp to see if it's the amp or if it's my xrgb that do not like 480i n64...

[RGB32E]

RGB32E did you try any 480i n64 game with the baku amp?

My picture get all messup when (I think) the output is 480i.

Like Star Wars Rogue Squadron with expansion pak enable is 480i for sure and all the picture is messup, but when I disable expansion pack the picture is fine in gameplay (but menu still messup)

I got the same kind of problem with perfect dark and DK64 intro, but gameplay is fine (maybe intro of both is in 480i for some reason??)

Going to try rgb alone without amp to see if it's the amp or if it's my xrgb that do not like 480i n64...

I haven't encountered any image stability issues with the NJM amp on my N64.

Yeah, a number of N64 games use 480i modes for menus and such. I know I've tried DK64 and KIG. I don't recall any part of DK64 running in interlaced (480i) mode. But I do know that KIG's pause, title, and menu portions output at 480i. I don't recall if I put the XRGB-3 in B1 mode during 480i, but I can confirm that it should always give a stable image in B0 mode (240p or 480i modes). Also, for B1 you should always have a stable image in 240p... I'll have to double check 480i in B1 mode and update later.

Are you using CSYNC or CVBS for SYNC? I'm using CVBS since I use the SHVC-010, but I've tried with CSYNC as well and the results have been the same (no problems). I've only tried CSYNC on my PVM-2030 though. However, either signal should work fine and not be the cause of the problem.

What are the first three digits of the serial number of the N64 you are using? NSxxx

Where are you tapping R, G, and B from? I'm tapping from C124, C125, C126 - on the side of the capactors closest in the image respectively (same continutiy as the picture).



EDIT... Forgot Killer Instinct is named "Gold", not 64... (KIG)

[darthcloud]

RGB32E did you try any 480i n64 game with the baku amp?

My picture get all messup when (I think) the output is 480i.

Like Star Wars Rogue Squadron with expansion pak enable is 480i for sure and all the picture is messup, but when I disable expansion pack the picture is fine in gameplay (but menu still messup)

I got the same kind of problem with perfect dark and DK64 intro, but gameplay is fine (maybe intro of both is in 480i for some reason??)

Going to try rgb alone without amp to see if it's the amp or if it's my xrgb that do not like 480i n64...

I haven't encountered any image stability issues with the NJM amp on my N64.

Yeah, a number of N64 games use 480i modes for menus and such. I know I've tried DK64 and KIG. I don't recall any part of DK64 running in interlaced (480i) mode. But I do know that KIG's pause, title, and menu portions output at 480i. I don't recall if I put the XRGB-3 in B1 mode during 480i, but I can confirm that it should always give a stable image in B0 mode (240p or 480i modes). Also, for B1 you should always have a stable image in 240p... I'll have to double check 480i in B1 mode and update later.

Are you using CSYNC or CVBS for SYNC? I'm using CVBS since I use the SHVC-010, but I've tried with CSYNC as well and the results have been the same (no problems). I've only tried CSYNC on my PVM-2030 though. However, either signal should work fine and not be the cause of the problem.

What are the first three digits of the serial number of the N64 you are using? NSxxx

Where are you tapping R, G, and B from? I'm tapping from C124, C125, C126 - on the side of the capactors closest in the image respectively (same continutiy as the picture).



EDIT... Forgot Killer Instinct is named "Gold", not 64... (KIG)

Thx for info, that is weird because 240p games with this amp are amazing, maybe I've done something wrong when building the amp that only affect 480i signal (unlikely I think). I going to work on that tonight will update with what I can find...

Btw I'm taking my RGB signal from the same place as you on the lower side of the three caps. I also use an SHVC-010 cable since I was to lazy too add a VGA plug yesterday

[RGB32E]

Thx for info, that is weird because 240p games with this amp are amazing, maybe I've done something wrong when building the amp that only affect 480i signal (unlikely I think). I going to work on that tonight will update with what I can find...

Btw I'm taking my RGB signal from the same place as you on the lower side of the three caps. I also use an SHVC-010 cable since I was to lazy too add a VGA plug yesterday

Amazingly blurry! I was reminded how heavily many games use bi-/tri-linear filtering on textures, even 2D GUI art! Ick! Though some games give sharp pictures... just a tangent!

So, what I didn't get from you was if you were running in B1 mode when you encountered the issue with 480i? I seem to recall that some 480i modes didn't work with the Sega Saturn when running in B1 mode... meh... another reason I don't like B1!

[darthcloud]

I'm only running in B0 now. Didn't tried with B1.

I ended up switching my pin inside my shcv-010 to csync intead of composite video and now it's working fine with both 240p and 480i

Dunno what the problem on composite video..

I mostly tried it with mario 64 and it look pretty sharp to me

[Konsolkongen]

So, what I didn't get from you was if you were running in B1 mode when you encountered the issue with 480i? I seem to recall that some 480i modes didn't work with the Sega Saturn when running in B1 mode... meh... another reason I don't like B1!

Do you remember what games didn't work in 480i in B1 mode? As far as i remember you use CSYNC on your Saturn where i use Composite Sync on mine (original SEGA-cable). I never had any problem using my Saturn in B1 mode. If i own the games you are having trouble with i can check on my setup if they work or not.

[RGB32E]

So, what I didn't get from you was if you were running in B1 mode when you encountered the issue with 480i? I seem to recall that some 480i modes didn't work with the Sega Saturn when running in B1 mode... meh... another reason I don't like B1!

Do you remember what games didn't work in 480i in B1 mode? As far as i remember you use CSYNC on your Saturn where i use Composite Sync on mine (original SEGA-cable). I never had any problem using my Saturn in B1 mode. If i own the games you are having trouble with i can check on my setup if they work or not.

I think it was the attract/boot/demo sequence of "Body Special 264 ~Girls in Motion Puzzle vol.2~"... LOL I'll have to try it again soon. I recall that this absolutely didn't work with the PoS GBS-8220.... Anyone want to buy my GBS-8220...

UPDATE: It was just the GBS-8220 that has problems with 480i on some systems, not the XRGB-3... Though when using CSYNC from the Sega Saturn on the D2 VGA input, the Sync setting of "Separate" provides a cleaner image than "Combined" in B0 mode. Though LPF and "Combind" need to be set when using B1 mode.

[darthcloud]

Btw RGB32E, the amp your use for NES is the one similar to the N64 one but with the addition of 3 transistor right?

http://baku.homeunix.net/RGB/PCE_DuoRX/PCE_DuoRX.html

[dorakyura]

Hey everyone,

I'm struggling with my new XRGB-3 in B1 mode. I did all the firmware upgrades Fudoh describes on his site (http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/). Thanks Fudoh for compiling all this information, it helped a lot, especially the part about the NTSC AFC setting, which I had to use to get rid distortion in the upper part of the screen.

Now once I connect my supergun (built it myself a few years ago) I have two problems, the first being some diagonal noise – I'm using the GAME-IN SCART port. Would capacitors for the R, G and B lines help? Connecting my PS2 (slim) via RGB SCART there is no noise (and I noticed that the lead uses capacitators).

The bigger problem is that I seem to lose sync with the supergun every other second in B1 (B0 is fine) which is really annoying. I messed around with the settings but couldn't find a solution. I suppose I have to change something on my supergun connection since once again the PS2 is working fine – I just don’t know what The supergun works fine on an RGB capable TV set.

Thanks for your input!

[Artemio]

Ahat kind of games have you tried with the supergun? I have that kind of issue with two bootlegs I've tested (Mortal Kombat and Bad Dudes vs Dragon Ninja).

I've used without an issue CPS-1, CPS-2, Naomi, System 16, System 32, ZN-2 and Konami hardware (some need AFC though, and system 32 needs the LPF to remove some noise).

Also, are you using resistors or potentiometers to regulate the RGB lines? or are you using the 220 ohm setting on the XRGB-3? I have no resistors or capacitors in the video path when connecting my SuperGUN through the RGB-21 input on the front (GAME IN).

[RGB32E]

[dorakyura]

Ahat kind of games have you tried with the supergun? I have that kind of issue with two bootlegs I've tested (Mortal Kombat and Bad Dudes vs Dragon Ninja).

Muchi Muchi Pork and Ibara. I have no doubt that they’re genuine.

Also, are you using resistors or potentiometers to regulate the RGB lines? or are you using the 220 ohm setting on the XRGB-3? I have no resistors or capacitors in the video path when connecting my SuperGUN through the RGB-21 input on the front (GAME IN).

I’m using the GAME IN as well and I had resistors in my scart lead (RGB levels are way too high on the above Cave titles otherwise); removing them had no effect (it didn’t hurt either due to the 220 Ohm switch on the XRGB-3).

I did some testing with other monitors today; one of them was a CRT, the other a relatively cheap 16:10 TFT display, neither of which showed the same behavior. The monitor I’m having problems with is a NEC 2170NX. Anybody else using this display with the XRGB-3?

[Fudoh]

Have you tried switching the V-Sync option ? If it's the monitor which has problems and not the XRGB-3, the monitor might have trouble with the passed sync timing of the PCB. Changing the V-Sync settings might change this behaviour.

[darthcloud]

Finished the mod for my New FC using the N64 amp and I get jail bar unfortunately

RGB32E do you use caps of 4.7µF on input and 100µF and 22µF on your output?

I use the video circuit as amp for the csync btw.

Baku page on new famicom don't have any schematic, I'm wondering if he use the same circuit...

I'm using the PPU from a playchoice 10 however might have better result with one from VS tennis which have the good palette also. Will try that after xmax since I don't have them on hand right now.

[RGB32E]

Finished the mod for my New FC using the N64 amp and I get jail bar unfortunately

RGB32E do you use caps of 4.7µF on input and 100µF and 22µF on your output?

I use the video circuit as amp for the csync btw.

Baku page on new famicom don't have any schematic, I'm wondering if he use the same circuit...

I'm using the PPU from a playchoice 10 however might have better result with one from VS tennis which have the good palette also. Will try that after xmax since I don't have them on hand right now.

Yes, but try what is described on page 10 of the datasheet instead of the 4.7uF cap. I don't think that the VS Tennis will offer any improvement over the PC10 PPU.

[dorakyura]

Have you tried switching the V-Sync option ? If it's the monitor which has problems and not the XRGB-3, the monitor might have trouble with the passed sync timing of the PCB. Changing the V-Sync settings might change this behaviour.

I tried that today, unfortunately it didn't change anything for me. It played around with many other settings and it seems that lowering the NTSC AFC makes the picture stay on screen for longer time periods but eventually it loses sync. BTW: B0 works quite good (still tweaking the settings, but the picture is stable; I apply the same NTSC AFC setting there).

At this point I’m wondering if the wiring of my SCART lead is correct. Is there a good guide on this? Searching this forum, as far as the picture signal goes, I found that all you need is to connect the R, G, B (possibly adding pots or resistors), sync and ground JAMMA pins with the corresponding SCART pins and add +5V on a 100 Ohm resistor for blanking. Did I miss anything?

[Fudoh]

You don't need blanking on the XRGB-3. Just R,G,B, Sync and at least one line of ground. Audio is optional of course.

[dorakyura]

You don't need blanking on the XRGB-3. Just R,G,B, Sync and at least one line of ground. Audio is optional of course.

Thanks for your efforts, Fudoh! Tried it without blanking, sadly no change.

[Fudoh]

recabled a bit here and there today and wanted to give 1920x1080 another try. No chance, no picture on the TV, no picture through any video processor and not the slightest idea what I could have chance since recently when I made the screen captures.....

[RGB32E]

Weird!!! No 1080p via analog or digital?

[Fudoh]

both don't work. VGA never worked for me (on my Sony), but recently (right after I updated to 2.12) it worked via DVI to HDMI allowing me to capture a few screenshots.

[Konsolkongen]

1080p worked once for me when using VGA, but after switching the unit off a few times i have never been able to make it work again. This was before the Full HD low/high setting was introduced. Broken shit...

My tv is a Sony KDL40W4000.

[darthcloud]

I modified my FC amp with 10µF cap on input but I don't see much improvement with my jail bar :S. Unfortunately I don't have resistor in the 1meg range on hand. Will try to get some to tryout if it help...

I wonder if the jail problem can come from the sync? Is using the 4th amp for sync would help? Currently I'm using the FC composite video circuit to drive my sync signal.

But still, in action jail bar are hard to see, so it's still cool and nice to see while playing

[RGB32E]

Jail bars of some degree are inevitable with the NES RGB mod. Using a 1100pF or 1000pF cap (film/non-ceramic) to ground on the RGB outputs works well to reduce the jail bar artifact (better than using LPF -> On). I didn't really notice much of a difference using the NES amplification of csync or the NJM2267 amplification... Also, lowering the "Black Level" adjustment (not the brightness or gamma setting) helps reduce visible JBs, especially on black backgrounds.



About 1080p in B0.... The XRGB-3 is a strange beast. It continues to run at 1920x1080 for me (only via analog output), though when playing Radiant Silver Gun on my SS, the title screen looks screwed up from time to time!!! (480i via D2 input using separate sync setting). I get a stable image if I change the sync mode for the D2 input to composite sync, but I get noise on the picture when doing so. I'm thinking about connecting a 0.1uF cap in series on the csync signal to get a noise free Saturn RGBs signal so that composite D2 mode can be used. After playing around with inputs (switching to a 240p RGB source on the 21 pin connector) I get a stable picture from the saturn in B0 mode using 480i....uggg.... while the results when "correct" on the XRGB-3...

I hope that Micomsoft uses this thread for feedback and will release a XRGB-4 sometime in 2010!!!!! HDMI output, better compat with 1080p output, better sync handling, less processing delay for the current B0 mode.... other filtering modes that are afforded by computer emulators (e.g. super sal). I doesn't look like the Lumigen Radience series can achieve what the latest B0 mode from the XRGB-3 has already done. When the cost of a Lumigen unit is >10x the cost of an XRGB-3... but then again, with further investment in developing a field scaling mode, perhaps those high end processors will best the XRGB-3 in time! I'd just like to have a haslte free experience...