PC Help *Solved*

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KBZ
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PC Help *Solved*

Post by KBZ »

I'd like to thank everyone for the great advice, she runs great now and I no longer have to stress about the damn thing overheating all the time.

meant to post some pictures of some further 'ghetto' mods of the case that needed to be done to keep the gpu from overheating.

Had to tidy up the wiring as best as I could, then strap in another fan underneath the HDD to push some air towards the gpu.

Image

then mount a fan on the side door directly over the gpu. I used the screen from a kitchen pan splash guard (wtf are they called?). It was a quick and dirty job but I plan to take out the dremel and make the edges look cleaner.

Image

and that's that, she stays cool enough but I still need to turn up the gpu's fan to about 70% before doing any gaming. That's the 3 speed switch for the fan sticking out by the way.

Image


still might add a 2nd exhaust fan up top but things seem to be good for now. Moral of the story is that big hardware needs big airflow which usually means a big case with lots of big fans.
This might be a bit unprecedented but I thought I'd ask for advice here.

I build a rig that keeps freezing during games. In the middle of a game the monitor will go blank (no input), and sound will skip until I hit reset.

Some specs...

cpu: AM3 Phenom II X3 720 @ 2.8
mobo: Gigabyte GA-MA790XT-UD4P
mem: 4GB DDR3
gpu: BFG 250 GTS 512mb
psu: corsair 750-TX (750w)
case: antec sonata III


So first I checked my temps, no cores ever hit 55 at load, gpu never goes over 60 either. I know that my case doesn't have great airflow so the side is off now.

Did a prime95 stress test for about 15min and no issues at all.

was advised to update my bios and drivers, done and done, cmos cleared as well but this still happens.

any of our pc kids have advice?
Last edited by KBZ on Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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nZero
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Re: PC Help

Post by nZero »

Try running with one stick of memory and see if the problem goes away.

Also, 15 minutes of Prime95 is nothing. Try an overnight run or use Intel Burn Test for finding instability.

Edit: also what games are you running?
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KBZ
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Re: PC Help

Post by KBZ »

nZero wrote:Try running with one stick of memory and see if the problem goes away.

Also, 15 minutes of Prime95 is nothing. Try an overnight run or use Intel Burn Test for finding instability.
I have tried that actually. Didn't seem to help. I'll try the pc stress test overnight
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StarCreator
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Re: PC Help

Post by StarCreator »

This sounds a lot like the problem I was having with my 9600GT. The leading hypothesis based on my forum crawling is that something (normally overzealous video drivers) is tripping the card's overvoltage protection. It seems to happen -a lot- with NVIDIA's hardware post-8800GT.

I switched to ATI (I have a Vapor-X HD4870 2gb, though I hear the new HD5850 cards have hardware-based overvoltage protection instead of software), and never had the same problem again. Couldn't be happier.
KBZ
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Re: PC Help

Post by KBZ »

StarCreator wrote:This sounds a lot like the problem I was having with my 9600GT. The leading hypothesis based on my forum crawling is that something (normally overzealous video drivers) is tripping the card's overvoltage protection. It seems to happen -a lot- with NVIDIA's hardware post-8800GT.

I switched to ATI (I have a Vapor-X HD4870 2gb, though I hear the new HD5850 cards have hardware-based overvoltage protection instead of software), and never had the same problem again. Couldn't be happier.
wow, I hope it's not that.

I got a reply from ncix tech help asking about my ram voltage. it's corsair XMS3 and apparently should be at 1.8v but my bios has it at 1.5 I've never changed memory voltage before, and it seems odd that the memory might cause this problem. I'll give it a go though.

*edit: just adjusted the voltage of the memory but problem still persists. bleh
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KBZ
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Re: PC Help

Post by KBZ »

nZero wrote:Edit: also what games are you running?
mainly tf2 and dods, though it happened playing nexuiz in linux as well
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Ex-Cyber
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Re: PC Help

Post by Ex-Cyber »

Every piece of info you add makes this look more like a faulty video card.
KBZ
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Re: PC Help

Post by KBZ »

Ex-Cyber wrote:Every piece of info you add makes this look more like a faulty video card.
that's what I'm thinking. BFG will do an RMA but I just want to make sure first. There's a long thread at evga where many report this with geforce 9 cards. Apparently the pci-e is overclocked, the cards themselves are clocked too high, and yes the voltage get way too high.

I've underclocked the card down below 650mhz and it lasted a bit longer before crashing, and now I've done the same wile manually setting the pci-e to 100mhz. Did a 2 hour session without crashing so that's... good. I have a feeling it will come back eventually though. If it does, I guess I'll just rma it and hope for the best.

really sucks cause I was certain that my original psu wasn't cutting it so I upgraded from the antec earthwatts 500w to this beefy corsair 750w, but apparently I was fine all along >_<
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KBZ
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Re: PC Help

Post by KBZ »

well it crashed again on me. I'm just going to rma it and hope for the best I guess =/
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StarCreator
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Re: PC Help

Post by StarCreator »

If it helps, you may want to try -downgrading- the video drivers, since for me the problem was directly tied to what drivers I was running. I had the most stability (but not the most performance) running ForceWare version 178 or so. (This is unfortunately a driver revision without PhysX support, if you were using that.)
KBZ
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Re: PC Help

Post by KBZ »

StarCreator wrote:If it helps, you may want to try -downgrading- the video drivers, since for me the problem was directly tied to what drivers I was running. I had the most stability (but not the most performance) running ForceWare version 178 or so. (This is unfortunately a driver revision without PhysX support, if you were using that.)
I believe the drivers on the included disc are the oldest ones that support my card. It seemed to crash more with them.

I'd switch to an ati equivalent, but from what I hear, their drivers still need a lot of work in linux
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jonny5
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Re: PC Help

Post by jonny5 »

i have similar card....the XFX GTS250....and even overclocked quite a bit higher than yours, with proper fan settings i never go above 55c, even after hours of play at max settings 1080p with games like mirrors edge with physX enabled.....it idles at around 37c

i have a shit case with like 1X 80mm fan at the back and just vents.....and still no probs....

that being said, i did have it lock up on me once, but i didnt have the fans rules set properly so it overheated....

only happened the once, and hasnt happened since i fixed my fan rules

definitely sounds like a faulty card

please post back your findings once its all sorted out
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Ed Oscuro
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Re: PC Help

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Running Prime95 to diagnose problems whose symptoms focus on video issues seems rather like shadow boxing your neighbor to find out why your cake didn't rise. Games are of course taxing too many things to narrow it down decisively, but they may show the weak points in your system in excruciatingly graphic detail. Best course of action is to find another video card and test that out. Also, asking on whatever Forum you go to for PC help...least unprecedented scenario on the Web ever :D
KBZ
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Re: PC Help

Post by KBZ »

little update here,

got the card swapped by bfg. Was going well for a couple days of 4 hour gaming sessions, and then it happened again. The blank screen and sound loop have happened about 4 times now and I've sent bfg an email asking about it.

now I'm kinda in the dark again. I'm not sure if I can get my money back from bfg so I can buy an amd/ati card to test out.

Also, maybe something in my rig is burning out any card that goes in there?
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gray117
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Re: PC Help

Post by gray117 »

Man, thats unlikely - they def sent a new card rather than servicing your old one?

Typically a fault like this will simply be the card ... it happens ... but to have it happen to 2 ...? ...

I take it this never happens when not gaming?
Ever managed to quit from the game and avoid crashing the pc?

If only during gaming its definately a fault with the card. As to why that fault occurs... I'm 99% certain it won't be the motherboard if it only happens during gaming ... As far as I'm aware a motherboard fault would cause a constant error with the pci-e slot [ie. constant card failure at all/any time] ...

... I'd be maybe tempted to try getting a new power supply? if its not ram/motherboard and the fault occurs in the card but *might* not be the card's fault I'd definately go for this as the possible cause.

Finally the problem will be 100% due to heat - the card maybe defective in some way due to a fault but if it works at all before crashing it will be heat that brings about this fault...

So, maybe if BFG won't give another replacement or refund simply try more cooling ...

... Its not an easy situation, but thats what I make of it in my humble experience.
KBZ
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Re: PC Help

Post by KBZ »

gray117 wrote:Man, thats unlikely - they def sent a new card rather than servicing your old one?

Typically a fault like this will simply be the card ... it happens ... but to have it happen to 2 ...? ...

I take it this never happens when not gaming?
Ever managed to quit from the game and avoid crashing the pc?

If only during gaming its definately a fault with the card. As to why that fault occurs... I'm 99% certain it won't be the motherboard if it only happens during gaming ... As far as I'm aware a motherboard fault would cause a constant error with the pci-e slot [ie. constant card failure at all/any time] ...

... I'd be maybe tempted to try getting a new power supply? if its not ram/motherboard and the fault occurs in the card but *might* not be the card's fault I'd definately go for this as the possible cause.

Finally the problem will be 100% due to heat - the card maybe defective in some way due to a fault but if it works at all before crashing it will be heat that brings about this fault...

So, maybe if BFG won't give another replacement or refund simply try more cooling ...

... Its not an easy situation, but thats what I make of it in my humble experience.
I'm afraid I've already gone through two power supplies, and my current one is 750w with more than enough on the single 12v+ rail.

I can see my cpu temps going up to mid 50's at times, so maybe it just isn't stable all the time at those temps? I've ordered a cpu cooler which I was planning to do anyway and I'll see how that goes. But the gpu never seems to even get in the ballpark of overheating in terms of what these things can handle.

I've tested with the card's fan on @ 100% but still got a crash.

thanks for the advice, I'll see if maybe the cpu is just slightly unstable.
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KBZ
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Re: PC Help

Post by KBZ »

Update:

Got a nice new S1283 cpu heatsink from Xygmatek and now my cpu temps never reach 50.

However the problem is still there. I'm considering just selling the card and trying an ati.

I can't find much in the way of gpu coolers and I doubt there's any reason for this to overheat.
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StarCreator
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Re: PC Help

Post by StarCreator »

ATI all the way man. NVIDIA has yet to prove to me any hardware they made after the 8800GT isn't complete garbage (you're one of many people I know, including myself, that had the exact same symptoms that didn't go away after multiple RMAs), and ATI happens to be the only one to have brought DX11 hardware to market. You just can't go wrong with the 5850/5870.
KBZ
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Re: PC Help

Post by KBZ »

I seem to have found some stability here.

With the fan turned up to 100% and the core downclocked to 666 I haven't had any overheating in a few days. I might end up investing in a gpu cooler.

For now everything seems to work.
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emphatic
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Re: PC Help

Post by emphatic »

Did you try Omega drivers for your GPU?
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jonny5
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Re: PC Help

Post by jonny5 »

Kingbuzzo wrote:I seem to have found some stability here.

With the fan turned up to 100% and the core downclocked to 666 I haven't had any overheating in a few days. I might end up investing in a gpu cooler.

For now everything seems to work.
i am certainly glad i ended up getting the XFX gts250, as i was set to get the same model as yours....

i have had no problems with mine, even overclocked by quite a bit running for hours on end
KBZ
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Re: PC Help

Post by KBZ »

Yeah it might be the card.

I know that my case doesn't have the best airflow, but it was happening with the case open too. Though apparently it can still overheat since an open case will create air pockets. But I never remember seeing the temp reach anything higher than 60 so who knows.

All I know is that I can play mah viddy gamez again

gonna buy me some killing floor


EDIT: POST 777 I'm Awesome now
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StarCreator
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Re: PC Help

Post by StarCreator »

I think a GPU cooler would really be trying to fix problems by attacking the symptoms, but if it works, more power to you. (Of course, I'm just slightly crazy and solved my problem by virtually building an entirely new computer - the old hardware, minus video card, is my HTPC/portable now.)

You getting L4D2? =p
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jonny5
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Re: PC Help

Post by jonny5 »

it might sound silly, but have you checked to see if it might be the graphics card causing the HDD to overheat?

perhaps the extra heat generated by the GPU is overheating the HDD's....i had this issue initially when i put the GPU in my case...had to reshuffle the HDD's in the rack to spread em out....no problems since

it was causing the system to crash when the HDD overheated...might fit your symptoms
KBZ
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Re: PC Help

Post by KBZ »

jonny5 wrote:it might sound silly, but have you checked to see if it might be the graphics card causing the HDD to overheat?

perhaps the extra heat generated by the GPU is overheating the HDD's....i had this issue initially when i put the GPU in my case...had to reshuffle the HDD's in the rack to spread em out....no problems since

it was causing the system to crash when the HDD overheated...might fit your symptoms

that's interesting, I never thought of that. I did notice that the sound loop would stop when I alt+tab and then repeat when I alt+tab back. So it isn't exactly frozen like a hot hdd would be.
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Re: PC Help

Post by Specineff »

Have you also checked the CPU is properly seated and "pasted" properly? Same with ram sticks?
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KBZ
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Re: PC Help

Post by KBZ »

Specineff wrote:Have you also checked the CPU is properly seated and "pasted" properly? Same with ram sticks?

yeah I made sure to check all that. I've built a few pc rigs back in the day. Things are much different now and I guess I wasn't compensating for the kind of airflow needed in this brave new world.
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jonny5
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Re: PC Help

Post by jonny5 »

agreed...this was the first graphics card i had bought since my ati x1600 :lol:

dem shitz are huge now!! :shock:

almost VHS tape sized....it barely fit in my case, and i am also running with the side off the case just to be safe....i have fan rules in place so nothing overheats and even under heavy load for extended periods i never go past 55c for the gpu

barely had room to squeeze my wireless card into the bottom PCI slot....
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iatneH
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Re: PC Help

Post by iatneH »

jonny5 wrote:dem shitz are huge now!! :shock:
No kidding, but the boxes on Asus cards are even more ridiculous, they're like double the footprint of a big mobo box.

I got one of the new-ish low-power versions of the 9800GT by PNY in my mini-ITX box, so it's single-slot, reasonably short and doesn't need the extra 6-pin power connector. But the older 9600GT I have with its passive cooler I thought was already monstrous, and still it's smaller than the high performance cards.

The new GT 240 cards look real tiny and cute, but the performance seems comparable to a 9600GT. Not too expensive though, after the inevitable price drops they might be good for a media centre PC build just for kicks.

Running open case is neat if you prop up a bunch of 120mm fans wherever you can, but I wouldn't do that with a cat in the house. You still have the kitteh since you moved?
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Ed Oscuro
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Re: PC Help

Post by Ed Oscuro »

iatneH wrote:The new GT 240 cards look real tiny and cute, but the performance seems comparable to a 9600GT.
The GT 240 seems like a die shrink of another card, maybe the 9800GTX. The 9600GT is not nearly as powerful though. Stolen from another forum:
GTS240
G92b 55nm 112SP
675MHz Core
1620MHz Shader
2200MHz Memory
10.8GP/s
37.8GT/s
70.4GB/s
GDDR3 256-Bit

9800GTX
G92 65nm 128SP
675MHz Core
1688MHz Shader
2200MHz Memory
10.8GP/s
43.2GT/s
70.4GB/s
GDDR3 256-Bit

9600GT
G94a/b 65/55nm 64SP
650MHz Core
1625MHz Shader
1800MHz Memory
10.4GP/s
20.8GT/s
57.6GB/s
GDDR3 256-bit
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