good shmups by developers not specialised in them

[Herr Schatten]

Recently, I was baffled by the revelation, that Biohazard Battle seems to have been an arcade game originally. Is that true? I wasn't aware of that. I always though it was a Mega Drive original. In any case, it's quite an awesome shmup not only published, but actually developed by Sega. Another great Sega-developed shmup is Astro Warrior for the Master System, which I also re-played recently.

Looking at these two, it makes me wish that Sega (and Nintendo) had turned to our favourite genre more often, as their results always seemed to be very good. For Sega, there's also Fantasy Zone, for Nintendo I can only think of Solar Striker.

Are there more?

[dcharlie]

isn't the arcade version a Megaplay game?

i assumed that the home version came first

[boagman]

Recently, I was baffled by the revelation, that Biohazard Battle seems to have been an arcade game originally. Is that true? I wasn't aware of that. I always though it was a Mega Drive original. In any case, it's quite an awesome shmup not only published, but actually developed by Sega. Another great Sega-developed shmup is Astro Warrior for the Master System, which I also re-played recently.

Looking at these two, it makes me wish that Sega (and Nintendo) had turned to our favourite genre more often, as their results always seemed to be very good. For Sega, there's also Fantasy Zone, for Nintendo I can only think of Solar Striker.

Are there more?

I would heartily endorse Square's Einhander for the Playstation as being one in this category.

[Jockel]

for Nintendo I can only think of Solar Striker.

There's also Space Firebird by Nintendo (Arcade, 1980 IIRC). Nothing you need to play, though.
It's basically like Galaga, only a year earlier.
And boring.

[Battletoad]

Recently, I was baffled by the revelation, that Biohazard Battle seems to have been an arcade game originally. Is that true? I wasn't aware of that. I always though it was a Mega Drive original. In any case, it's quite an awesome shmup not only published, but actually developed by Sega.

I personally don´t like Bio Hazard Battle that much. It has some good graphics, level designs and I love the setting with the killer insects, but the weapon system, especially the way how your "drone" moves (or whatever you call it), is a bit awkward. Luckily there´s the red homing laser, so I still had enough fun with this game.
I would also be surprised if the game was released as an Arcade game first, haven´t heart anything about that.

Anyway, relating to the topic... another game that comes to my mind is Subterrania by Zyrinx. Not a typical shmup, but I would still count it to the genre. It´s a good game, the multidirectional exploring and the gravity give it a nice and individual touch.

[Herr Schatten]

the weapon system, especially the way how your "drone" moves (or whatever you call it), is a bit awkward.

I always thought that if it was possible to lock the drone in position (similar to Last Resort), that would have been pretty much perfect.

[Battlesmurf]

Change Air Blade (Sammy, guilty gear people).

Gotta second the Subterrania game. Wonderful game!

Not to menton Einhander- have to cosign that one. Did it really do so terribly awful that they have not wanted to produce a follow up?

[Battletoad]

the weapon system, especially the way how your "drone" moves (or whatever you call it), is a bit awkward.

I always thought that if it was possible to lock the drone in position (similar to Last Resort), that would have been pretty much perfect.

Yes I have to agree with that. Then there would be no need to complain at all.
Well... additionally, all music should be as awesome as in stage 3.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Not to menton Einhander- have to cosign that one. Did it really do so terribly awful that they have not wanted to produce a follow up?

It's been mentioned that Squaresoft wanted Einhander to remain as a single story with a beginning and an end. So that is the reason why we still haven't seen any sequel (or prequel) for that matter. The real question is will the current Square/Enix conglomerate that exists now, release a sequel or prequel to continue the Einhander mythos set forth in the first game? I'm sure with the power of the PS3 for such an Einhander series continuation project, anything would be possible. An updated Einhander game/sequel would look great in 1080p running at 60fps along with the goregous FMV clips that play between stages. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Enhasa]

This thread doesn't have much meaning to me because I don't really feel that specialized shmup developers tend to do a better job on average than non-specialized ones. Haven't really given it much thought though. Also it's tough to know where to draw the line for specialized or not.

[boagman]

I'd say another would be View Point by Sammy for the Neo-Geo. My favorite game, ever, of any genre. Sammy *may* have another shmup or two, but none that I can think of, and certainly they're not known for them.

Honestly, though, what *is* Sammy really known for?

[gameoverDude]

I'll pick Nebulas Ray from Namco. While they're not specialized (i.e. Takumi, Cave, Toaplan, Seibu, Psikyo, Compile, TecnoSoft), that doesn't stop NR from ranking alongside the likes of Raiden Fighters in quality.

Both Pulstar and Blazing Star can go in this thread. Aicom became Yumekobo after leaving Sammy. They've done a good variety of stuff, working as a contractor for other companies (i.e. Sega's Racing Hero, Jaleco's Astyanax, JVC's Legendary Axe, and some console basketball games, etc). Aicom were really the developers of View Point, being owned by Sammy at that time.

Unfortunately, Yumekobo is now defunct. The company page at yumekobo.jp just doesn't seem like it would be theirs, unless they have just quit the game business.

[TLB]

I'd say another would be View Point by Sammy for the Neo-Geo. My favorite game, ever, of any genre. Sammy *may* have another shmup or two, but none that I can think of, and certainly they're not known for them.

Honestly, though, what *is* Sammy really known for?

I agree.

[Specineff]

I'd say another would be View Point by Sammy for the Neo-Geo. My favorite game, ever, of any genre. Sammy *may* have another shmup or two, but none that I can think of, and certainly they're not known for them.

Honestly, though, what *is* Sammy really known for?

Mr. Do?

Also, about Einhander, it wouldn't kill Squenix to make a spiritual sequel. it doesn't have to follow the same or similar storyline, as long as the core gameplay is unaffected.

[system11]

isn't the arcade version a Megaplay game?

i assumed that the home version came first

It is indeed a Megaplay game, as far as I'm aware they were all home -> arcade on that system.

[KMM]

Sammy is also known for their brilliant dissertation of the ball-launching genre of video games, Pachinko Sexy Reaction.

Nintendo made Radar Scope, but let's just forget about that.

Are we counting Taito or Konami?

[BIL]

Like Enhasa said, it's difficult to know where to draw the line. Konami, Taito and Capcom weren't genre specialists like Cave/Raizing/Psikyo et al, but they undeniably had firm standing within the genre throughout the 80s and 90s.

[Herr Schatten]

Like Enhasa said, it's difficult to know where to draw the line. Konami, Taito and Capcom weren't genre specialists like Cave/Raizing/Psikyo et al, but they undeniably had firm standing within the genre throughout the 80s and 90s.

I think I'd exclude them. They are well known for at least some of their shmups (Gradius, Darius, 19xy). Other companies mentioned are most widely known for totally different stuff, though, and that's what I'm aiming at.

[yyr]

One thing that bothers me about Squeenix is that at the time they produced Einhander, they were branching out -- successfully -- into many different genres. Look at all of the unique games they published and/or developed on PS1...Bushido Blade (& sequel), Tobal (& sequel), Parasite Eve (& sequel), Brave Fencer Musashi, Threads of Fate, and of course, Einhander. Does Vagrant Story count too?

At this time, and for the last few years, it seems like they're not doing much besides RPGs any more. It irks me because I know they can do other games...

Oh well, rant over.

[ZOM]

At this time, and for the last few years, it seems like they're not doing much besides Final Fantasy any more.

Fixed.

Also, note that most of the old squaresoft staff is scattered around in other companies, like Monolith, Mistwalker, Matrix, etc...

[Ed Oscuro]

I think the "shmup specialist" sticker doesn't make sense when looking at some of the larger firms which may well have had people within them who were prolific (if not specialized, I know that most people worked on many different projects) whereas the core team at some of the smaller developers couldn't really afford to go into different genres because they didn't have the resources to spread around on different projects.

[ROBOTRON]

Recently, I was baffled by the revelation, that Biohazard Battle seems to have been an arcade game originally. Is that true? I wasn't aware of that. I always though it was a Mega Drive original. In any case, it's quite an awesome shmup not only published, but actually developed by Sega. Another great Sega-developed shmup is Astro Warrior for the Master System, which I also re-played recently.

Looking at these two, it makes me wish that Sega (and Nintendo) had turned to our favourite genre more often, as their results always seemed to be very good. For Sega, there's also Fantasy Zone, for Nintendo I can only think of Solar Striker.

Are there more?

I would heartily endorse Square's Einhander for the Playstation as being one in this category.

+ 1 win.

[lgb]

Not to menton Einhander- have to cosign that one. Did it really do so terribly awful that they have not wanted to produce a follow up?

In addition to what PCEFX has to say, Einhander actually did very well, at least in the States; it's one of "those games that someone in the States actually cares about", along with the likes of Ikaruga and Thunder Force.

Fixed.

No, not entirely accurate, as usual.
--------
How about that Eliminate Down, by Soft-Vision or whoever? I think they made some arcade games but I don't think they're shmups!

[Shatterhand]

I have Solar Strike for my Game Boy. It's indeed a very fine oldschool shmup.. it even has a 2nd loop!


I would like to say Kaiko.... but they only made 3 games, and one wasn't even oficially released. Well, 2 were puzzle games (One of them was utterly brilliant), and 1 was a shmup, which is just an awesome one - Apidya.




I think Square is the most strong company on that matter. I am no big fan of Einhander, but it does have its quality, I am pretty sure Square could pull out some other pretty good shmups. (In the past, they had done King's Knight for NES and MSX, which is a vertical shmup)

[ZOM]

Fixed.

No, not entirely accurate, as usual.

As usual? Please explain.

[system11]

The reason this question doesn't have many answers, is that there used to be no such thing as a specialised developer, this is a relatively modern invention, but modern shmups are mostly from specialised companies.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Even the Japanese software dev by the name of Face Co. Ltd. made a couple of shmup PCBs like Nostradamus and Scorpion. Interest to see some folks who were part of the Face dev bandwagon migrate to form the shmup group dev known as Psikyo.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[dcharlie]

At this time, and for the last few years, it seems like they're not doing much besides RPGs any more

off the top of my head:
Language guides for DS (language guide)
Gyromancer (puzzler ableit with RPG elements)
Neir (action game)
Project Sylpheed (space combat)
Pingu (kids game)
Snoopy (kids game - this is made by the Einhander team by the way!)

they're looking to expand - especially in the west, along the way they've absorbed Eidos and Taito and had projects lined up with western talent (Grin initially prior to their demise) to branch out from what they are used to.

They're quitely changing - it's interesting to watch.

[lgb]

Honestly, though, what *is* Sammy really known for?

Sometimes, less is more. Also Sega Sammy and the Atomiswave.

[Voxbox]

Compile made a lot of shumps with almost ridiculus lenght. MUSHA Aleste got 7 stages all 8-10 minutes long (boss included though), and it's probably not the worst one.

Titanic Lance gotta be one of the physically longest bosses for sure

At this time, and for the last few years, it seems like they're not doing much besides RPGs any more

off the top of my head:
Language guides for DS (language guide)
Gyromancer (puzzler ableit with RPG elements)
Neir (action game)
Project Sylpheed (space combat)
Pingu (kids game)
Snoopy (kids game - this is made by the Einhander team by the way!)

they're looking to expand - especially in the west, along the way they've absorbed Eidos and Taito and had projects lined up with western talent (Grin initially prior to their demise) to branch out from what they are used to.

They're quitely changing - it's interesting to watch.

Nier (and probably most of those games) are not made by SquareEnix. Take note of the difference between developer and publisher.