So much for the "dead genre" line...

[SAM]

What's the point of even worrying about if the genre is "alive" or "dead", it's just all "fan" induced BS anyway, as long as people play the games the genre is alive. And when has the genre even ever sputtered with releases, this year is the relatively the same as the last and the year before and the year before that.

That's exactly what I was previously saying (see my previous posts in this thrend), it just shmup is no longer the mainstream genru as it previous was during the 80s.

[dave4shmups]

dave4shmups wrote:


He's not "insulting the modern state of the genre", he's insulting shmups which he's never even PLAYED before-except for a cell-phone port of Xyanide, (unless he lives in the Netherlands and works for Playlogic; there's NO WAY he's played the XBOX port)-and that haven't even come OUT yet. That's absurdity; can we not even WAIT until a shmup comes out and we've played it before we declare it to be crap?! Confused


Alright, JACKSON.

--- except I have played it. At past E3's. And yes, before you ditch the Captain Sureofhimself cape for the mask of Captain Obvious, things could've changed since ANY E3.

There's no need to get insulting. You could've and should've explained just HOW you got to play a game like that that hasn't even been released yet, before you go calling me "Captain sureofhimself". You can't just say you've played such a game without expecting people to have some doubts.

[dave4shmups]

you might have said that before.

and i think dave is almost the only person exited about xyanide on this site, frankly, how could anyone come to the conclusion that it was a shmup judging from the xbox screens is beyond me.

so we have this debate over finally, xyanide is not a shmup.
that isnt to say that it wont be a good game.

and still doesnt change the fact that you're overly too negative and judge shit too quckly, but im not interested in changing your mind, i wrote enough replies in this thread already.
cept if you want to share some info about stuff you played at E3.

There shouldn't even BE a debate IMO, it looks like a shmup, two different people have played different versions, and neither person has declared it not to be a shmup.

[dave4shmups]

"However, I'm NOT down with this constant mainstream-bashing. It's getting tedious, repetative and dull. It's like the underground punk/metal fan that's so convinced that their preferred style of music is the only one with any real meaning or artistic merit, that everything else is automatically rendered souless and worthless. It's blinkered, narrow-minded, and plain old WRONG.

You're perfectly entitled to have an opinion, but don't you think that your description of Halo/Resi was over-simplified and a little stupid? It's like me dumbing down a description of shmups to

'Oh, those games, you just shoot stuff, then you shoot a bigger one at the end of every level. They're old, and most of them have crap graphics. And anyway, they're not even that hard, because you can just continue until you've finished most of them. And they're all the same thing anyways.'.

It's totally retarded of course, but you're trying to sum up two pretty decent games with the same boneheaded sort of generalisation. It it really pisses me off to hear stuff like that. If you don't like the games, fine. But if you're going to provide reasons, make them articulate and informative, instead of them sounding like something an eight year old might spout.

And I certainly haven't posted about how the genre is dead. In fact, I really don't give a shit whether the shmups 'scene' is considered dead or not. I like the games, I like this forum, and that's all that matters to me, but I get annoyed because at ignorance like yours because that's how players of 2D/retro games all end up painted as uber-nerdy super-geeks with a hatred of anything that's either western or remotely successful.

Let's all just be friends eh? Smile"

Amen to ALL of those points, Marc; well said!

[Nemo]

What's the point of even worrying about if the genre is "alive" or "dead", it's just all "fan" induced BS anyway, as long as people play the games the genre is alive. And when has the genre even ever sputtered with releases, this year is the relatively the same as the last and the year before and the year before that.

That's exactly what I was previously saying (see my previous posts in this thrend), it just shmup is no longer the mainstream genru as it previous was during the 80s.

I would say shooters were no longer mainstream at the advent of 32-bit gaming, which was over a decade ago, so I wish people would get off this kick that shooters are dead or are going to die when the genre has sustained itself for the last 10 years despite being a niche genre.

[dave4shmups]

The "Free Range" 360° weapon system in Xyanide has the potential to be really addictive for fans of that kind of control scheme. Sort of like taking the controls of Geometry Wars and adapting them into a shmup, it's a good idea

The problem was that ships would move in and out of the plane of firing ... and without any visual cue. Your shots just wouldn't be hitting them all of a sudden.

Well other shmups like Philosoma and Thunderforce V, for example, have done this kind of thing before. I think it's nice to see Xyanide working with the idea again. It's quite a fun effect and not disorienting at all once you play through levels a few times and you know what's coming.

sometimes you need to be shooting at ships that seem to be in the background --- but they're impossible to differentiate from what's real background.

Reminds me of the blending issues in Internal Section. There were lots of times in that game where the player's eyes essentially melt and the screen becomes a blur. Still great fun though

Really I don't think the features you mention in Xyanide are going to be an issue to all players here. What I've seen already of Xyanide makes me confident there's going to be a lot to like about the game. As long as the flagship Xbox version actually sees the light of day, and we don't instead just get the watered down PSP port that was recently announced (still looked decent on PSP though, but a bit too close to the cellphone version for my taste...)

Oh, and what happened to the retro-looking GBA version? Did that ever get rescheduled?

I'm starting to think if Xyanide never gets published it will be like The Red Star and only live through something like an internet beta leak.

I wouldn't worry about XBOX Xyanide getting a release TF. Several months ago I emailed Playlogic and they said that all they had left to do with Xyanide was to find a publisher, and to finish the XBOX Live features of the game.

I emailed them even more recently, and they said that it's almost here; and that it will be ported to the XBOX 1-they said they'll see how it goes there, and then decide whether or not to do a 360 port.

What it all adds up to is that Playlogic is VERY determined that XBOX Xyanide will see the light of day.

People on this site act more certain about Taito Arcade Classics coming out in the US when ONLY the European and Japanese revs. have final game lists and release dates.

[BAD]

Shmups are just like the Dreamcast; presumed dead, accidentally buried, now burst out of their coffins pissed off and more powerful than ever... to be worshipped by underground fanatic cults worldwide who await the coming of the mainstream gaming apocalypse

You are awesome. You should be a role-model...

[dai jou bu]

For fairness' sake, the same can be said about shmups, only replace "somebody getting their head blown off" with "a boss exploding".

Not really. Shmup boss mass tends to be higher than your average person's head, and since the player's impression is directly proportional to the enemy's explosion, the shmup boss wins.

[Acid King]

The ratio of sub-par/above-average shmups is getting more and more depressing as time goes by.

And the ratio of good to bad wasn't just as bad and equally depressing back in the day? Give me a break....

[Bar81]

The ratio of sub-par/above-average shmups is getting more and more depressing as time goes by.

And the ratio of good to bad wasn't just as bad and equally depressing back in the day? Give me a break....

Except when you release 60 shmups a year and say 80% suck ass then you have 12 good to excellent shmups but when you see 30 shumps a year and that same 80% suck ass ratio holds constant you're looking at only 6 average to above average shmups. But these days the ratio is even worse than that. Pretty much everything coming out is either pure garbage or retread garbage. We're lucky if we get 1-2 games out of that list that are above average. It's just sad that so many people are so desperate for shumps that they're willing to buy and convince themselves that the current crap is actually good.

Looking at the OP's list, rather than support his assertion, proves to me that the shmup genre is dead. It's a whole lot of crap, rehashes, remakes, and retreads.

[jp]

I agree with Bar81.


Though I thought Border Down was awesome. So...

[Rob]

Except when you release 60 shmups a year and say 80% suck ass then you have 12 good to excellent shmups but when you see 30 shumps a year and that same 80% suck ass ratio holds constant you're looking at only 6 average to above average shmups. But these days the ratio is even worse than that.

Ha

[raiden]

It's just sad that so many people are so desperate for shumps that they're willing to buy and convince themselves that the current crap is actually good.

There are many cases where I feel just the same, but I´m not into provocation right now, so I won´t mention any names.

[Acid King]

Except when you release 60 shmups a year and say 80% suck ass then you have 12 good to excellent shmups but when you see 30 shumps a year and that same 80% suck ass ratio holds constant you're looking at only 6 average to above average shmups. But these days the ratio is even worse than that. Pretty much everything coming out is either pure garbage or retread garbage. We're lucky if we get 1-2 games out of that list that are above average. It's just sad that so many people are so desperate for shumps that they're willing to buy and convince themselves that the current crap is actually good.

.

With the number of shooting games that used to be released, and the terrifying number of utterly god awful shit that was released, I doubt the ratio was ever that much better than it currently is. That and the fact that it ultimately comes down to personal opinion. While you may toss Raiden 3 in the shit bin, I'm sure there will be plenty of others who feel elsewise, as your previous speil about Galuda shows how much your opinion of good clashes with others on the board.

[Rob]

It's just sad that so many people are so desperate for shumps that they're willing to buy and convince themselves that the current crap is actually good.

There are many cases where I feel just the same, but I´m not into provocation right now, so I won´t mention any names.

\
Can't believe I almost overlooked this. "CONVINCE THEMSELVES." Consider for a sec that you could be wrong about these games. Impossible, right? This shit is embarrassing to read.

[raiden]

Can't believe I almost overlooked this. "CONVINCE THEMSELVES." Consider for a sec that you could be wrong about these games. Impossible, right? This shit is embarrassing to read.

in rather shocking news, I´m not always concentrating on what we discussed 2 weeks ago, so maybe you can just stop assuming you know which "these games" are.

[Rob]

in rather shocking news, I´m not always concentrating on what we discussed 2 weeks ago, so maybe you can just stop assuming you know which "these games" are.

I have a bad memory so I can't remember 2 weeks ago.

[Randorama]

who are you two, btw? My memory is even worse.

In other shocking news: shmups can't die, they're not organic beings.

And Kid Aphex must be trolling here because they've banned him on n-g.com, i suppose.

Going to convince myself of the goodness of various games

[highlandcattle]

I LOVE SNS2
I ADORE CHAOS FIELD
I LICK MY PSYVARIAR COMPLETE BOX ON A DAILY BASIS

Is it so hard to understand that games you think are crap might be loved by others?Stop Arguing about it and get along. Opinions of everything in the world are subjective.DEAL with it or cry in a corner.

[Kron]

Unfortunately when you look at the number of shmups made specifically for home consoles you would think the genre was dead.

Luckily there is still life in Japanese arcades.