Edge article on G.Rev, MileStone, Triangle Service

[D]

Link Posted on the insertcredit.com website

Edge link (has some pictures of the articles as well:
http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/2 ... l_guns.php


text:

The Small Guns Previous |
This article was originally published in the July 2005 issue of Edge (E151). To order back issues call +44 (0)870 4448466.
http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/f_emup21.php

http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/f ... phpJapan’s once-great arcades have shrunk to the periphery of the current videogame scene, and a stagnating home console market troubles the largest of its developers. Yet amid these adverse conditions, some Japanese studios exist on a handful of staff, stubbornly working towards the dream arcade shooters that first inspired them to enter the industry.
What keeps these companies driven when the supposedly low-end arcade boards are overpriced, the Japanese gaming market is in crisis, and the worldwide industry is pushing towards ever-larger costs and ever-fewer innovations? We visited three small developers – G.rev, Milestone and Triangle Service – and interviewed them to find out…
http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/f ... _emup1.php
G.Rev
The company behind Border Down and Senko No Ronde was founded in May 2000. It now has eight full-time staffers: three newcomers and five ex-Taito employees previously from the
G Darius and Ray Storm/Ray Force teams. We spoke to president Hiroyuki Maruyama.
Why did you leave Taito?
The company decided to leave the arcade market, apart from big cabinet systems such as driving games. We understood the reasoning behind the decision, but we had joined Taito to create arcade videogames and we assumed the company would come back to the arcade videogame market a couple of years later. After more than a year working on games for the PlayStation we started to realise Taito’s return to the arcade videogame scene would never happen. So our conception and will to create videogames clearly differed from Taito’s direction.
Was it a big risk to form a small developer in a shrinking market?
You know, we didn’t feel that risk, although making the company was a painful learning process. It took three years to deliver our first shooter, Border Down, in 2003. It wasn’t our first arcade title: we made a puzzle game for just ¥3m (£15,100). But Border Down was truly our first step in the arena. We saved money by getting jobs from Sega and Treasure [G.rev developed the 3D engine for Ikaruga] and when we had enough, we did Border Down. That’s our approach. When we spoke about our game to Sega, it provided the technical support and boards at a low price so we could start work, but we financed it with our own money. It took around nine months to develop the game. We are known for learning and developing quickly: our latest game, Senko No Ronde, took just a year.
Do you think the introduction of the low-end arcade boards such as Type X and Atomiswave will have a positive effect on the arcades?
Low-end boards alone cannot achieve that. As the number of arcades in Japan decreases, the cost per board produced increases, lowering the prospective profits. The result is that arcade games aren’t selling. With this in mind, we decided to release our latest title at a very low price – we love the arcade and want it to survive, so we wanted Senko to sell at ¥110,000 (£554) like Border Down. But Senko is a very original title that’s seen as a risk by operators, who are consequently reluctant to order it. We had to increase the price to ¥150,000 (£755), to cover our costs. If original games could be sold at ¥110,000, I think we’d have a viable and dynamic arcade market.
The Type X is really too expensive – about ¥300,000 (£1,510) – and there are too many versions of it. As an interchangeable PC, it lacks the standardisation of boards like the Naomi. On the other hand, the Atomiswave is very cheap and its performance is not that far from the Naomi. It should have been a great option for developers, but in reality it’s had a hard time sticking to its promises and Sammy hasn’t delivered a strategy. The Naomi is still the best option, although Sega isn’t pushing it. But, since there’s a large base installed in the country, there’s still a lot of room for third parties like us.
How much of an issue is money?
Of course it’s an issue, but if you are patient you can avoid it becoming a big issue. If you want to do everything quickly, you have to find a way to get as much money as possible in the shortest time. This means taking terrible risks, possibly getting into bad deals that would endanger the company in the future. I prefer to take my time and save enough money to make my original games. Even if I have to wait ten years, that would be OK, because I’d still get to make my game. If you think in the long term, the financial issue disappears: imagine a three-year cycle in which one would be used to develop your game and the other two to save for the next title.
The GDC keynotes this year were very different: J Allard’s vision of larger teams for Xbox 360 titles and Satoru Iwata’s commitment to small teams with ingenious ideas. What’s your take on it?
Both visions are right. It’s natural that big companies will go to bigger projects, and Nintendo’s vision corresponds very much to the way it has seen videogames for years. Both have their audiences, and if you consider Nintendo and Microsoft’s visions as the minimum and the maximum, then we will have to find our way in the middle of this. It’s not about a choice; there are many graduations in between.
Microsoft is really trying to appeal to many in Japan, and we have been told it would do its best to give us the best environment possible. But to be honest, since the PlayStation2 is already testing our limits, imagining the world beyond is unrealistic. It’s more than just a technical issue; it’s a financial barrier. The next generation of consoles will provoke an even bigger shrink in the number of developers, and I think Nintendo is focused on this particular aspect with its next machine. Sony’s vision is not yet clear, but Microsoft is already thinking post-PlayStation era with its new Xbox.
If these three manufacturers offer three different choices, it’s easier for us to choose our next step. If they all offered the same, we would be in big trouble, as would the whole industry!
The fun of a videogame is not based on the size of the developer, or the amount of money invested in the project. I really believe we still can provide a lot of fun even with lower-cost games. But I never trust what manufacturers tell developers when they launch a new console. As a company, we will wait and see.
Many of the larger Japanese publishers feel the need to ‘westernise’ their games to sell outside the Japanese market. Does this affect smaller developers like G.rev?
In the past, we never considered our development as ‘for Japan’ or ‘for overseas’. We just had the simple idea of making something fun. This hasn’t disappeared, but it has been replaced by the concept of ‘business’. I don’t think creators in Japan are motivated to make games for the US because it’s the biggest market. It doesn’t work like that. People in big companies make games the company feels are needed to support its growth and because overseas markets offer the best prospects, they move toward these markets.
If someone in these major companies feels the need to make his or her own game – well, they quit. Why are videogames not selling as well as they did before? People are just bored. The boom is over. There are still many who enjoy playing videogames, but it’s not the only form of entertainment. Companies who had spectacular growth during the boom now find themselves oversized in today’s market.
Have you considered developing for the DS or PSP?
Many present the DS as the platform of ideas, of concepts, but the use of specific features like the touch panel actually limits your freedom to create. Of course, if a game makes natural and fun use of these features, I see a lot of potential; but if you don’t use the pen and the double screens, your game is meaningless on the DS. Forcing you to use these features confines you in a very narrow environment, so I’m a little afraid about the machine’s future.
The PSP is just a PlayStation with a beautiful screen. I don’t see any merit in that. Of course there are a few interesting titles like this use of cards in Metal Gear Acid, but so what? Why should I develop or play on the PSP? For its wireless features? If the wireless network becomes global and easily accessible, then I see the potential for very interesting developments, but currently the PSP is less of a console and more of a business move from Sony – for itself, and against Nintendo. As a game console, I don’t see its merit.
How do you see the future for your own company?
I think a lot about the future, probably because at G.rev we have this habit of planning our projects in longer cycles than others. But in the future, I expect that our offices will be cleaner – that will be the only difference. I don’t see bigger changes, expect maybe the size of my staff going up to a total of around 20 people. We will continue to make the games we want to do.
I don’t see the arcade itself changing very much, except in physical size as cabinets get smaller.
I think games will be broadcast in realtime via satellite to specially equipped cabinets, based on PCs. In the meantime, the business model will evolve accordingly, and I will try to anticipate these changes.
Milestone
http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/f_emup31.php

http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/f_emup31.phpAfter the collapse of puzzle/RPG developer Compile, six staffers who had remained until its dying gasp and three who had left earlier regrouped to form Milestone. We spoke to president Hiroshi Kimura as the developer of Chaos Field continued work on its striking flat-shaded arcade shooter Rajirugi.
What brought you back together at Milestone after Compile?
I was 36 when I decided to make this company. My wife and her parents were pushing me to look for a good job in a major company, and I was aware that this would be the last time I would really have the choice of what to do next. I realised that what had attracted me to Compile had been shooting games; many of us had joined Compile to develop them, but the company was only interested in Puyo Puyo, so we didn’t really have the chance to fulfil our dream. When the Compile adventure ended, we had the – perhaps naïve – idea of making a game ourselves and trying to sell it to a publisher.
What would you advise someone with that same aspiration?
Well, making games is nothing simple, especially for a small company. You can’t just start up and develop a game in the hopes of revolutionising the industry. Experience is everything. Every member of my company has to handle many tasks, and I think it is the same with many companies similar to ours. In Milestone, we have a policy of self-motivation: staff come to me and explain what they want to do and why. We also have to deliver tons of work for other companies, so you need to anticipate trouble. When a programmer tells me he will be finished in five months, I usually add two more for delays.
You also need to know the market. When there was no other form of entertainment other than the Famicom – I mean, you could play in the garden, but the Famicom was certainly the coolest thing in town – the hunger for videogames was strong. People like [Chunsoft president] Koichi Nakamura could make their own game with limited resources, alone. Now that’s almost impossible, because we’re losing money to competing forms of entertainment. It’s not that you can’t make a game without money, but it would be a very demanding process. You would need to save a lot of money to finance your project and you wouldn’t eat much! But it’s a process that people will support you through.
What have the challenges been with running a small development studio?
Our everyday challenges are no different to a large company. But, obviously, from a financial point of view, the conditions are not the same. When your project takes more time than originally thought – which is not unusual – well, you have to move quickly when you are a small company. Because you are paid following deadlines, you need to fill any financial gaps quickly in case of delays, and that can be very challenging. But the reward is that we have control over our work and direction. We don’t have an old guy from the top making decisions about things he mostly doesn’t understand or has no interest in. Because of our size we can make games that go against current trends; they’re not just about the amount of polygons and effects. If we had a much bigger team, we’d have to integrate everyone’s opinion into the game and lose its core idea as a result. In many ways, larger teams are an obstacle to a game’s vision.
So, do you not intend to take on more staff in the future?
As CEO I look after my staff as well as looking after the company. In this function alone, the current number is the maximum for me. I couldn’t care for them with the same attention if we had more staff. I imagine that if we were to grow, we could have a kind of pyramid structure, with new people under every staffer in today’s Milestone. But we are still far from that stage: we have been on the market for only two years, and we’re far from being out of the woods yet. I guess we will have to keep our current size for some time and make the best of it.
How tight are you finding the financial conditions?
We were able to live off our work at the end of Milestone’s first year. With Chaos Field, our publisher was financing it to deadlines so we knew we had money coming in on these given dates. But I’ve never felt comfortable depending on only one project, especially when it is original, so I tried to develop a side business for us, fulfilling tasks for other companies. One of our strong points is our low cost to perform demanding tasks, compared to the costs major companies would have to face with in-house development. So, handling both, we were able to survive and develop. Making only original titles is too hard and too risky; if we had we based the future of our company on the development of a single original project, I think we would have failed during that first year.
What has kept you involved with the arcade gaming scene?
Firstly, it’s the simplicity. You don’t sell a product costing ¥6,800 (£34); it is just ¥100 (50p) and your challenge is only about the coin the player can choose to put into your cabinet – or not. There is also this spontaneous feedback, and a certain sense that you are making an experiment: when you put your game out on location test, you find out immediately what is wrong with it and can tune it accordingly in realtime. These are very rewarding experiences – at least, they are for us.
Will the introduction of low-end arcade boards such as Type X and Atomiswave have a positive effect?
Well, I don’t think they are that affordable, actually. The Atomiswave, maybe, but the Type X is not. You need around ¥190,000 (£955) for the board and a game costs at least ¥120,000 (£600). The main advantage with the Type X is the use of Windows as an interface; developers are used to the PC so this allows them to keep development costs down. But I’m not sure that lowering the costs of boards alone will ensure the arcade’s revival. You have to think about the operators who buy these systems.
Because the videogame has had so little attention in the arcade market recently, its sudden revival through these boards is important and I would like operators to be able to choose between a variety of titles. However, we have to be realistic. We’ll never go back to that golden age when every game in the arcade was a videogame, before 3D fighting games arrived. But I would like to see diversity in the arcades again, with videogames alongside other titles like Purikura [‘print club’ photo booths], 3D fighters or network games. The problem with videogames in the arcade today is their lack of identity: operators don’t feel a need to have them represented in their arcades. Videogames need to become desired, so operators would want to choose between games like [Cave’s] Ibara or our Rajirugi. That would be a revival for arcade videogames.
As for developing for home consoles, what’s your opinion of the visions of J Allard and Satoru Iwata at GDC – larger teams for larger games, or small teams with fresh ideas?
Both make sense, and both would appeal to members of my staff, but platforms like PlayStation3 will be out of our reach for some time. We will stick with the PlayStation2, GameCube and mobile phones for a little longer, even when the next-generation consoles arrive. But if one of my staff were to say tomorrow that he or she is really determined to develop on PlayStation3, we would call for outside help. In Japan, companies like us are used to interacting, so Milestone would find the financial resources while other companies would provide the workforce.
What about opportunities presented by the new handhelds – the DS and PSP?
Again, I have no preference. It is like the new Xbox and Revolution: you develop for one or the other according to your idea of the moment. But we are developing mainly vertical shooters and neither the DS nor the PSP is particularly comfortable for this type of game. We need to go for new challenges to develop on these new portables.
What do you think the future holds for Milestone?
Whether you’re a small company or a big one, we’re all concerned by how many copies our games will sell. However, I see no point for a company like mine to compete against larger publishers in generic markets like driving, RPG, and so on. I would like to be able to continue to develop original titles in markets where the larger companies have no interest, where they consider the prospect of profitability is not high enough. Call them niche markets if you want, but it depends on your perspective – the notion of a ‘market’ is really relative. I’m sure that for big companies the RPG is seen as the main market in Japan but obviously it is not for us. Our main market is located between the big ones.
Triangle Service
http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/f_emup41.php

http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/f_emup41.phpOf the three small developers we profile here, Triangle Service is the smallest. During development of XII Stag and Trizeal it operated with just three staff members, and is currently down to only its founder, Toshiaki Fujino.
Where did you work before founding Triangle Service?
I was a programmer, originally at Konami. I left because my work there wasn’t what I originally wanted to do: my dream had been to work in the game industry when Gradius came to the arcade. I was part of KCEJ East and was working on a series of character-based games, mainly from Shueisha [publisher of manga mainstay Shonen Jump magazine]. I tried many companies before deciding to make my own, something like two-and-a-half years ago, I think.
Why did you decide to make your own company?
I was in a company working on an arcade shooter and during the course of development, the company went into bankruptcy. At that time, it sounded reasonable to form another company in order to finish the game and sell it. I can’t go into any more detail because of copyright issues.There were three of us in the new team: myself, the original designer and a sound creator. I was in charge of programming.
Is it possible to create games with a three-person team in today’s climate?
It is not impossible. Game development is not only about the size of your team. Of course it depends on the type of game you want to develop, but in our case it was very much possible. You just need everybody to do their tasks properly and to have a lot of motivation.
What have been the biggest issues you’ve encountered working independently?
The biggest problem for me is, without any doubt, the money. I mean, you need some to form your company, and the banks are more than reluctant to invest in a project, especially when you are so few. The risk management is very difficult, especially if you choose to focus on a single development. I considered getting some work from big companies in order to create some kind of safety net, bringing in additional revenue in parallel to my main original project. But there were so few of us I had no time to develop that aspect of the company. So I had to borrow money from my friends, people I used to work with in previous companies.
The positive side is all the control you have over your work, the global understanding you have of the project. In big companies, you are part of a big structure and you only work on a specific task – at Konami, for example, I was a salaryman and had no real input into the project. So any vision you could have about the game is not taken into account unless you are in a key position.
Why did you decide to develop for the arcade and not the console market?
It was because of the game we were working on in my previous company. My plan was to finish it and bring it to a publisher, but in the meantime, another company acquired the rights on the game and released it. So I had to change the game into something original. It ended up as XII Stag, which Taito accepted to publish, first in the arcade and then on PlayStation2.
On the home console side of the business, there are big players occupying big shares of the market. It would make no sense to compete against them. Nobody would notice our games. But as those companies have left the arcade market, it has become the playground of small developers. I really don’t regret taking the risk in founding my company. It has not been easy every day – actually, it is hell even now, but it has brought me so much satisfaction.
Do you intend to work on consoles in the future?
Of course I would like to, but to be realistic, a company like mine cannot do it without teaming with a bigger company. For the moment, my main objective is to develop for the arcade and deliver a game that will be recognised. Then I would like to bring it to the home market, perhaps even on a next-generation console. It is already hard enough to work on PlayStation2 because companies like Sony don’t always trust small firms like mine, especially when it comes to supplying development kits. I have to work with companies that have already signed development agreements with Sony, for instance.
What did you think of the GDC keynotes – J Allard’s vision that games will require much bigger teams for Xbox2 titles and Satoru Iwata’s commitment to ingenious ideas with small teams?
This new Xbox is very much an American approach – that is, it is based on the American idea of entertainment with enormous budgets and huge teams only rivalled by Hollywood. Nintendo is a game company focused on gaming. I think the company is targeting small- and medium-sized game companies in its next move, the ones that will find it very difficult to work on the PlayStation3 or Xbox 360. Maybe I will have to go for Nintendo. I don’t know yet. But the company has changed its policy recently, allowing small companies to release games on the GameCube, such as Milestone with Chaos Field. That’s the kind of game that wouldn’t have been accepted before. I really believe this isn’t a move by Nintendo to fill an empty line-up, but rather to refocus on the game experience rather than a Hollywood style of development.
Do you see any promise in the new handheld platforms?
I have no interest in the PSP. It is exactly the same as the PlayStation2 was in its time: a machine that’s not focused on videogames but more on other forms of entertainment, such as music and video. The DS, though, really is a game console. It offers a new interface and a challenge to exploit it through a new kind of games. It’s an appealing challenge, but for the moment, I have no plans for the DS.
Will low-end boards like Atomiswave and Type X have a positive effect on arcades?
If the makers are working hard enough, I see a certain form of revival coming for the arcade, especially for videogames. But at the moment videogames are disappearing from arcades because the operators don’t want to buy new ones. Today, we have less than a third of the arcades we used to enjoy 15 years ago, and so the major companies have stopped making videogames for the arcade. However, this has provided more of a chance for smaller companies like mine.
I prefer to develop for the Naomi system rather than these new boards, because it offers the best environment. Also, there are so many Naomi cabinets on the market that it’s easy to sell new games: you just sell a GD-ROM disc. It’s very easy and affordable for operators. I don’t think I would develop for the Type X because it’s too expensive for me and for operators. The Atomiswave is much cheaper, even compared to the Naomi, but its specifications are too low. I mean, it is really a Dreamcast, after all. So again, I don’t think I would like to develop on it.
Many larger Japanese publishers feel the need to ‘westernise’ their games to sell outside Japan. What do you think about this?
From a big game-maker’s point of view, it’s the obvious choice. They have a bigger need than mine to sell their games. But from a Japanese point of view, I feel sad. I fear this will make the Japanese style of gaming weaker, and I see no point in developing games like you would do on Xbox. I think Japan has its own vision and style to develop further.
Where do you want to take Triangle Service in the future?
For the moment, I’m focused on the consumer port of my second arcade shooter, Trizeal – I’m publishing it on Dreamcast myself because no publisher was interested. My two staffers were in contract for a specific task, so I made the Dreamcast version alone, handling all the aspects of making a console game, from the port itself to the package, manual, and so on. But in the future, my objective is still to make the top shooting game for the arcade.




D's note: Notice how you get the same story three times (same questions asked)
Great article nevertheless, very educational.

[highlandcattle]

damn that's a bit nasty just bought the issue for this article two weeks ago

[Metal Gear Okt]

Any word yet on a home port of Senko no Ronde? A DC release? Maybe a G.Rev 2-pack for the PS2?

[professor ganson]

Super huge thanks, D. I really wanted to read this article, but no one carries Edge around here. Printed it out, and am going to read it now.

[dave4shmups]

"The Type X is really too expensive – about ¥300,000 (£1,510) – and there are too many versions of it. As an interchangeable PC, it lacks the standardisation of boards like the Naomi. On the other hand, the Atomiswave is very cheap and its performance is not that far from the Naomi. It should have been a great option for developers, but in reality it’s had a hard time sticking to its promises and Sammy hasn’t delivered a strategy. The Naomi is still the best option, although Sega isn’t pushing it. But, since there’s a large base installed in the country, there’s still a lot of room for third parties like us. "

Most interesting-I didn't know there was more then one version of Type-X. Although I agree 100% with the comments on the Atomiswave.

[llabnip]

Triangle Service is the smallest. During development of XII Stag and Trizeal it operated with just three staff members, and is currently down to only its founder, Toshiaki Fujino.

Three guys made Trizeal and this one remaining guy alone ported Trizeal to the Dreamcast and did the marketing and packaging as well. Amazing story - no huge budget involved and it sounds like he went through some pains to beg/borrow money and make this a reality for us.

I hope that everyone that pirated a copy of Trizeal sleeps un-well.

[dave4shmups]

Triangle Service is the smallest. During development of XII Stag and Trizeal it operated with just three staff members, and is currently down to only its founder, Toshiaki Fujino.

Three guys made Trizeal and this one remaining guy alone ported Trizeal to the Dreamcast and did the marketing and packaging as well. Amazing story - no huge budget involved and it sounds like he went through some pains to beg/borrow money and make this a reality for us.

I hope that everyone that pirated a copy of Trizeal sleeps un-well.

And considering the few people involved, I hope that everyone who critcizes Trizeal ceases unless they can do better themeselves.

[Recap]

Considering the few people involved, they should have charged no more than $15 per copy.

Funny he alludes to the own [Japanese] vision and style to develop [games] and he forgets how important are bitmap-based graphics in it.

[gingerj]

Considering the few people involved, they should have charged no more than $15 per copy.

Do you have ANY idea about game design, implementation and production? Do you know how STUPID that comment is....

[8 1/2]

Really incredible. I found it interesting too that everyone seems to speak really highly of Nintendo and what they're trying to do. In the US all I hear is hate for the N. I think it also shows how important people like us are in all of this. Not that import sales really shape the course of the arcade industry, but I have to think that we're still seeing Dreamcast releases because of this underground interest. I can only hope that these small indy dev. teams can find a place in the new generation of consoles. I would hate to say with finality that PS3 killed the arcade star.

[Recap]

Do you have ANY idea about game design, implementation and production?

Sure. It all was done only by ONE person there. Only ONE had to eat with this game's profit. Would you care to compare it, for instance, with the Chaos Field case, pretell?

Do you know how STUPID that comment is....

I do know how STUPID is to believe that all that "shooting love" thing was anything else than a marketing slogan, thoe...

[Kaspal]

Do you have ANY idea about game design, implementation and production?

Sure. It all was done only by ONE person there. Only ONE had to eat with this game's profit. Would you care to compare it, for instance, with the Chaos Field case, pretell?

Do you know how STUPID that comment is....

I do know how STUPID is to believe that all that "shooting love" thing was anything else than a marketing slogan, thoe...

i dont know how much the Trizeal game was reatailed for (since i dont own a DC), but i can tell you somthin:

if some dev (in this case, a lone guy) takes the work to make a game for a console i own, whch its supposed to be dead, and its playin his azz by doin that, i wouldnt pay him 15 bux for a copy of the game, i gladly would pay him 30 bux for a copy of his game. why?... simple, big companies ar chargin me 50+ bux PER GAME bcuz of the long path the game takes b4 landin in my hands, BUT, if they fail with that certain game, they wont go bankrupt.... but a small company (again, one lone guy) charges me, say, 25 bux for a game, which has some quality, and its for a market that its very "niche", then, even thou, i might think about it 1st, its pretty darn probable that i'd end up buyin it for that price, since, its affordable, and, as a programmer myself, i know HOW MUCH FREAKIN WORK its involved in dev-ing somethin ...

so, maybe he didnt do it for the "shooting love" after all, but, for christ sake, he, as all of us, have to survive from somethin, and he had to do all the job alone (part of it was already done, but there were conversions involved in many cases), and if he didnt promote his upcommin game, how in the hell would he manage to sell it then (and get somethin back for his effort)??....

i better SU now, but again, the fact that the game was made by one lone guy, doesnt means it has to be retailed for 15 bux ...

[black mariah]

Sure. It all was done only by ONE person there. Only ONE had to eat with this game's profit. Would you care to compare it, for instance, with the Chaos Field case, pretell?

$15 x 2000 (the last figure I heard on Trizeal sales) = $30k. That's $30,000... in Japan. Figure that easily half of that would go to publishers, leaving Triangle Service with maybe $15k to play with... yeah, that's great. Try some math before opening your mouth.

[neoalphazero]

The fact that Mlestone has a number of ex-Compile workers gives me more hope for their newest game.

As for DC releases...none of the developers speak highly of the system and only talk of console ports in terms of Gamecube and PS2. *-neo

[Turrican]

Have you considered developing for the DS or PSP?

Many present the DS as the platform of ideas, of concepts, but the use of specific features like the touch panel actually limits your freedom to create. Of course, if a game makes natural and fun use of these features, I see a lot of potential; but if you don’t use the pen and the double screens, your game is meaningless on the DS. Forcing you to use these features confines you in a very narrow environment, so I’m a little afraid about the machine’s future.
The PSP is just a PlayStation with a beautiful screen. I don’t see any merit in that. Of course there are a few interesting titles like this use of cards in Metal Gear Acid, but so what? Why should I develop or play on the PSP? For its wireless features? If the wireless network becomes global and easily accessible, then I see the potential for very interesting developments, but currently the PSP is less of a console and more of a business move from Sony – for itself, and against Nintendo. As a game console, I don’t see its merit.

What about opportunities presented by the new handhelds – the DS and PSP?

Again, I have no preference. It is like the new Xbox and Revolution: you develop for one or the other according to your idea of the moment. But we are developing mainly vertical shooters and neither the DS nor the PSP is particularly comfortable for this type of game. We need to go for new challenges to develop on these new portables.

Do you see any promise in the new handheld platforms?

I have no interest in the PSP. It is exactly the same as the PlayStation2 was in its time: a machine that’s not focused on videogames but more on other forms of entertainment, such as music and video. The DS, though, really is a game console. It offers a new interface and a challenge to exploit it through a new kind of games. It’s an appealing challenge, but for the moment, I have no plans for the DS.

Pretty frantic answers, I am very glad to read all these opinions. I think however it is strange for small developers to snob PSP or DS so easily... "We mainly work on verts", "I don't see merits in PSP"... sometimes a too hardcore viewpoint can narrow your vision. Meanwhile, X-Nauts are doing Sengoku Cannon and Shin'en Nanostray... That's the spirit, I'd say.

[Turrican]

(note: picture yourself the paragraph below as in the Star Wars / Gradius Gaiden intro: text that slowly disappears into space)

After the collapse of puzzle/RPG developer Compile, six staffers who had remained until its dying gasp and three who had left earlier regrouped to form Milestone. We spoke to president Hiroshi Kimura as the developer of Chaos Field continued work on its striking flat-shaded arcade shooter Rajirugi.

What brought you back together at Milestone after Compile?

I was 36 when I decided to make this company. My wife and her parents were pushing me to look for a good job in a major company, and I was aware that this would be the last time I would really have the choice of what to do next. I realised that what had attracted me to Compile had been shooting games; many of us had joined Compile to develop them, but the company was only interested in Puyo Puyo, so we didn’t really have the chance to fulfil our dream. When the Compile adventure ended, we had the – perhaps naïve – idea of making a game ourselves and trying to sell it to a publisher.

Sigh, to think those fluffy coloured blobs killed the Compile I (and Mr Kimura) loved - I'll never be able to play them in a lighthearted mood.

[Recap]

$15 x 2000 (the last figure I heard on Trizeal sales) = $30k. That's $30,000... in Japan. Figure that easily half of that would go to publishers, leaving Triangle Service with maybe $15k to play with... yeah, that's great. Try some math before opening your mouth.

You should try some documentation before the math, thoe, since that sales figure and the percentage for publishers (not to mention that actually Triangle Service published the game by itself) are just your speculation, but anyways, yep, crap material like Trizeal which, indeed, is 95% recycled from a failed arcade game, doesn't deserve more profit than $15,000 for its creator.

[llabnip]

but anyways, yep, crap material like Trizeal which, indeed, is 95% recycled from a failed arcade game, doesn't deserve more profit than $15,000 for its creator.

Man, that's harsh! Trizeal is my most played shooter of 2005 and continues to get a ton of playtime here. Then again, I'm partial to the shooters of the late 80's and early to mid-90's and so this feels like a breath of refreshing (if a bit stale) air. Is it perfect? Heck, no... but it does many things well - including capturing that old-school shooter addictiveness that makes me want to play again after a run. I'd absolutely love to see another game like Trizeal for 2006 but I suspect it's unlikely. If the game is considered "crap" or the arcade rev a "failure" it's only in the eyes of people that were expecting a game to follow the mold of shooters released over the past 5-7 years. I, for one, am happy they didn't go down that path.

Border down got that same "it's slow, it's plodding, it's basic" label at first too. I remember being a wee bit surprised that an overwhelming number of people didn't like it at first - but now it's considered a classic. Trizeal came out of the gates the same way... even before it was released it was heavily bashed (mostly by people that only played a handful of times in the Japanese arcades or even a few from screenshots and preview movies). Anyway, Trizeal may not be to your tastes, but it's excellent and there is a growing fanbase (as the Trizeal Impressions thread can attest). To each, their own.

But this guy put in effort to raise money to get this game into our hands. Those of us who are fans of Trizeal are fortunate that he went through these pains so that we may play this quality shooter at home on the fading Dreamcast. To suggest that the guy doesn't even deserve to make a bit of money after paying back his debts is just plain unkind.

[Herr Schatten]

I agree with pretty much everything llabnip said in his above post.

[gingerj]

$15 x 2000 (the last figure I heard on Trizeal sales) = $30k. That's $30,000... in Japan. Figure that easily half of that would go to publishers, leaving Triangle Service with maybe $15k to play with... yeah, that's great. Try some math before opening your mouth.

You should try some documentation before the math, thoe, since that sales figure and the percentage for publishers (not to mention that actually Triangle Service published the game by itself) are just your speculation, but anyways, yep, crap material like Trizeal which, indeed, is 95% recycled from a failed arcade game, doesn't deserve more profit than $15,000 for its creator.

Why do you continue to post, with every post you make your just make yourself look even more stupid. I've got nothing constructive to say about your posts because they've been concieved by an idiot.

[Recap]

Why do you continue to post, with every post you make your just make yourself look even more stupid. I've got nothing constructive to say about your posts because they've been concieved by an idiot.

Good trolling requires more elaborated insults. Kids these days...

[jp]

I loved their PSP/DS comments. Good times.


No mention of the DC. I guess Milestone won't be putting anything new on there as they just mentioned the GC and PS2... and with G.Rev, meh, who knows.


I will say this: Trizeal is a very underrated game, and provides one of the deepest old school gameplay experiences I've seen in awhile. Definitely a gem, but you have to get past the graphics first. Same way you have to get past the boring art in Border Down to find out its the deepest f'ing shmup ever. Best hori ever made IMO too.


At any rate, I look forward to seeing what G.Rev and Triangle Service do in the future. Milestone has yet to impress me.

[gingerj]

if G.Rev were a PLC I'd buy shares in them...

[Kron]

G.rev & Milestone are hardly going to mention the DC when Edge have set out their agenda to start with questions (stupidly aimed imo) about the nextgen on PS3 and X360.

Its a shame more wasn't made of that interview as it came across as very naive on Edge's part, But anyone reading the magazine over the last few years would be used to that.

Wasted opportunity.

[gingerj]

The questions were kinda stupid you're correct on that one, its like they didn't do any research into what the companies have done before etc...

I think the interview questions would of fitted some main stream company, not niche shmup dev cos....

[Kron]

Completely agree, There was no thought in the questions at all.

[russ]

Even though I've never played Trizeal (unfortunately), after reading the article I suddenly have new-found respect for Triangle Service. It's good to see people and companies so dedicated that they would put everything on the line just to please a few fans.

[neoalphazero]

G.rev & Milestone are hardly going to mention the DC when Edge have set out their agenda to start with questions (stupidly aimed imo) about the nextgen on PS3 and X360.

Its a shame more wasn't made of that interview as it came across as very naive on Edge's part, But anyone reading the magazine over the last few years would be used to that.

Wasted opportunity.

Well, if anything it showed how the little guy views the next gen systems, I mean we've heard plenty of comments from high profile developers. The questions seem fairly intelligent actually, it's nice to hear comments on the handhelds and the current arcade standards.

I just find it funny that no one had anything positive to say of the DC. Out of all the options available it's the easiest port and max profit per game sold (though of course PS2 is the overall best sales option).

BTW Triangle's last comment seems to say they want to do another arcade shooter...could be interesting.

*-neo

[Neon]

llabnip wrote:

even before it was released it was heavily bashed (mostly by people that only played a handful of times in the Japanese arcades or even a few from screenshots and preview movies).

I played two demo games the Trizeal guy posted for download as well,I read his entire argument too. I could tell from those and the other stuff that the game wasn't my thing. I'm into shooters like Dragon Blaze and DDPDOJ, ones that give me a rush and aren't boring like Compile shooters. This game seemed to be more like an old Compile shooter. Plus I never play my Dreamcast anymore, and it seems this game will remain DC exclusive. Most of the support for it seemed to stem from a desire to support Dreamcast rather than the quality of the game, which put me off to it as well. Not trying to start a console war as it's a quality console but most of the stuff I play nowadays is on the PS2 or Saturn.

[qatmix]

I think its more down to do you like old school or nu school (or both) which splits opinion on Trizeal. Not a machine format thing.

I have to admit that most of my mates are really into it, but we grew up playing arcade shooters. Chuck them a manic shooter and they are not so keen on them.

Personally I like both, just depends on the mood im in.