Some thoughts about current gen game creation.

[dcharlie]

Left 4 dead 2 is coming out on PS3, I'll try that next

erm - i think that rumour was confirmed to be fake

[neorichieb1971]

Oh yeah. Valve again.

Oh well, more money in my pocket.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

You wouldn't want to buy a PS3 port of theirs anyways after the Orange Mess.

[neorichieb1971]

Its ok.

Current game creation = Cursor on mans head, fire weapon.

Am I wrong

[louisg]

Its ok.

Current game creation = Cursor on mans head, fire weapon.

Am I wrong

Just because I like to argue.. you could say the same about shmups: Ship control is very cursor-y. Additions which make it less cursor-like, such as gravity or inertia, are dismissed as terrible ideas within the shmups community (I still believe those could be made to work, but it would change the gameplay drastically into something more like Choplifter). Now, as much as I prefer tactical FPS games like Doom to the Mario Paint Flyswatter-like mousing action of Quake, you have to admit that vs. games in the FPS genre are similarly focused on technical skill and precision movement. Maybe it really is the modern cousin to shmups

[neorichieb1971]

Shmups have patterns, differing speeds, enemy bosses and such. And although I can understand your point... Modern day gameplay resorts to head shots. If you are good at them, no matter how the game is dressed up, you'll win easily. Not necessary in FPS, its 3rd person perspective games too. You put a cursor on the head, and you shoot.

It could be a western game, a sci fi game, a GTA game, an uncharted game... All of them have one basic element that makes you win.. Aim at the head and shoot.

MW3 will require it, uncharted 3 will require it, dead space 2 will require it. Basically, thats what nextgen gaming is about. Activision and Naughty Dog have sold 2 thirds of a billion dollars in games in the past month. So it seems, people like shooting guns and aiming for the head.

I wonder what Xbox 720 and ps4 will have to offer. I can tell you, it won't be anything different. MW3 will have people frothing at the mouth the moment it is announced, without any details of the game being published. For some reason it will just be the game to have.

[kozo]

Falcom will be here for us. Well into next year they have games lined up that will be just as awesomely addicting and old school as their 80's games. They're one great reason to own a PSP or a PC right now.

That said, I understand a lot of what's being said in the topic.

[louisg]

It could be a western game, a sci fi game, a GTA game, an uncharted game... All of them have one basic element that makes you win.. Aim at the head and shoot.

That's been basically my problem with FPS design ever since the rail gun (1997). I feel like any game design in which only one skill needs to be mastered and the player can be killed in 1 hit without warning is just a bad design. But, people seem to like that stuff (shrug).

R.I.P. well-designed FPSses, 1993-1993

[brentsg]

The one area where current gen really seems to have it nailed is racing games. Sports games are pretty good too, if you like that sort of thing... and they will occasionally pop out a decent platformer... the random good FPS (but most are rubbish).

Other than that, they have really blown it imo. And what's with the gadget controls (DS, Wii, now the Xbox heaing that way)?

[EPS21]

It could be a western game, a sci fi game, a GTA game, an uncharted game... All of them have one basic element that makes you win.. Aim at the head and shoot.

Run around with the rocket launcher in the Quake or UT series and try that, I guarantee you won't get very far .

But yeah I'd have to agree the vast majority of FPS's are based on that. It's not like its a bad thing, the same could be said about shmups, being that the vast majority are based on, especially with the modern, ever-popular danmaku subgenre, dodging lots of little bullets. People who are good at them, like the super replay dudes, no matter how dressed up the game, will "win" easily at them, maybe as far as the 1CC goal is concerned (getting their ridiculous high scores probably wasn't easy for many of them).

[dcharlie]

It could be a western game, a sci fi game, a GTA game, an uncharted game... All of them have one basic element that makes you win.. Aim at the head and shoot.

oh Neo you card!
you say this like aiming at the head and shooting is a skill that's easy to pull off.

Shmups have patterns, differing speeds, enemy bosses and such. And although I can understand your point... Modern day gameplay resorts to head shots.

hmmm, can we get a list of the next gen games you've actually played ? Im not doubting that there is a ton of crap this gen, but i'm curious to know what games you actually tried for you to come to this over-arching conclusion.

also, there's much easier and much more valid arguments against this gen beyond "oh it resorts to head shots". here, i'll give you the biggest piece of crap gameplay element in next gen gaming : the massively overused "REAL TIME EVENT"

PRESS TRIANGLE NOW! FLASH FLASH FLASH.

This experiment died (or should have) with Dragons Lair and Space ace. Shen Mue had a tinker with them, and at least RE4 -suddenly- threw them up at a couple of points where you weren't expecting them but the whole thing stinks and it panders to (another gripe) the notion that this gen games have to have "moments" that you talk to your friends about :

A: Did you do that part with the tank and the grenades?!
B: Oh my god that was awesome
A: yeah, X,X, Y , Y , Up , Down... get down tank!
B: yeah, totally awesome - i did the same series of inputs!
A: HIGH FIVES!

It reduces key moments down to slosh in order to add a cinematic element in a tightly controlled fashion. I see why it's done and i -do- want big key moments in games but i expect those to be challenging boss fights that should be comprised of actual gameplay requiring at least SOME level of skill to complete.

A game example : Star Wars Force Unleashed. Game isn't great but it had the potential to be better than it was. For instance, get to the AT-ST battle on a bridge way. Great, i'll use my force to push it off the ledge. Nope, can't do that. Okay, will start dismantling it, throwing objects at it. Okay great - it's working - nearly dead. Hmmm... it's not dying. Wait! What's this? Press A now?! oh... A... B... X.... down... oh... great... i chopped it in half. How massively disappointing. Not only does the game ignore gameplay elements that run through the game until that point (i can throw everything else off ledges!) but it then reduces what should be a trickier segment of gaming to Simon Says.

Contrast this with a game that does "moments" right : Halo 3 (picking 3 simply as it's this gen). Scarab fights (as with all the battles) play out organically - there's a few ways to dismantle a scarab and nere a canned sequence of button mashes to do it with.

Head shots at the very least take a mass of skill - or very very stupid opponents. This stuff isn't game play, it's hightech Snap.

[Gozer]

Its ok.

Current game creation = Cursor on mans head, fire weapon.

Am I wrong

I liked the way Dead Space messed with this formula a bit. Head shots will only piss off the enemy and make it more dangerous. Each enemy type should be dismembered a certain way. I just wish there were more enemy types in the game.

[neorichieb1971]

Dcharlie.. If you need meds for anything take them before reading

I am not particularly bothered what game mechanics are needed to win a game. FPS and 3rd person shooters have their right to exist in whatever fashion they like. My argument is that games like uncharted and MW2 are great, but they live in the real world for the most part. There is no surreal environments, something that gaming used to have in droves. I understand nextgen gaming should be realistic, but we could have a realistic anything, why does it have to be helicopters ,army guys and head shots all the time?

Uncharted 2 and MW2 will by far be the best sellers this year. If both games get sequels next year, I Would imagine that to be the same again. Halo at least had some sort of alien story right? Not that I played it.

The problem for me is, MW2 is just a war game. GT5 is just a racing game. MW3 will be just the same thing over and over.. maybe different maps. But where is gaming going? It seems to be stalled. GT5, its got the same cars, the same tracks as last time, and by the time GT6 comes out you will be doing the same things with 3DTV's, moving seats and god knows what. MW3 will be another extension pack.. and believe me its coming.

Surely its only a matter of time before companies start doing something different. Pulling the next mario out of the bag.

I know i'm brief here -

I'd like to see a game based on -

Jetpacks/Space harrier
The Descent movie
Road Rash
Combat school/assault courses
a God game (where you can do shit like in 2012)
Road blasters 2000 hehe/Death race

The other thing that bothers me is thats its not just MW2, isn't there another game on TV called Flashpoint or something.. Its another war game doh.. Its worse than Fifa in the PS1 era

Bottom line. Games should stop allowing you to pretend to be something that exists in real life. And give you something completely fresh from the ground up. Thats game creation. Thats innovating.

[linko9]

Bottom line. Games should stop allowing you to pretend to be something that exists in real life. And give you something completely fresh from the ground up. Thats game creation. Thats innovating.

I completely agree. That why I much prefer F-Zero and Wipeout to GT or Forza, and Metroid Prime and Timesplitters to COD and MoH. I could go on, but the point is that for me, games are always more enjoyable when they don't try to imitate real life. The great thing about videogames is that it's just as easy to model/draw a crazy futuristic spaceship or a giant talking turtle-dinosaur-dragon as it is to model/draw a Sherman tank or a Porsche; it just takes a little imagination.

[dcharlie]

I completely agree. That why I much prefer F-Zero and Wipeout to GT or Forza, and Metroid Prime and Timesplitters to COD and MoH. I could go on, but the point is that for me, games are always more enjoyable when they don't try to imitate real life. The great thing about videogames is that it's just as easy to model/draw a crazy futuristic spaceship or a giant talking turtle-dinosaur-dragon as it is to model/draw a Sherman tank or a Porsche; it just takes a little imagination.

yes, but we can have both - there is room for both !

again, re: Neo - there are games out there that fit your bill. They aren't in the majority like the SNES/MD days, but they do exist.

[louisg]

I completely agree. That why I much prefer F-Zero and Wipeout to GT or Forza, and Metroid Prime and Timesplitters to COD and MoH

Man, I loved Timesplitters 2 & 3. They weren't perfect, even amaturish at times, but dammit they were fun! Especially the flare gun.

[TLB]

I completely agree. That why I much prefer F-Zero and Wipeout to GT or Forza, and Metroid Prime and Timesplitters to COD and MoH

Man, I loved Timesplitters 2 & 3. They weren't perfect, even amaturish at times, but dammit they were fun! Especially the flare gun.

I put obscene amounts of time into Timesplitters 2. Future Perfect didn't so much do it for me, but my GC started to die by then, anyway. Timesplitters 2 is definitely my favorite console FPS ever.

[Lordstar]

Time splitters was the game which converted me to console FPS as I was a mouse and keyboard guy. So much fun. Which i think is missing from so many games these days.

[TLB]

I was huge into Timesplitters 2 until I played Counter-Strike Source.

[Shatterhand]

Apparently in the airport you have to mow down innocent people to complete the level. That is immoral to put in a game. Realism is just going too far imo.

I know it's kinda off-topic... but I think they went WAAAY too far here, developers went insane searching for the "Realistic Mass-violence" on that level.

After MW2, people will look at GTA and say "Oh, come on, thats fine, that'a barely violent".


And I remember when Mortal Kombat was released, and people went all "AAAHH, that's too much gore in a videogame". Mortal Kombat would look like a children play if it was released those days. (Well, the current versions of the game do )




And Timesplitters kick some fucking ass. Best console FPS series ever, if not best FPS series ever. Shame about Timesplitters 4 never seeing the light of the day

[SockPuppetHyren]

This is a little off topic, but I thought this was the best thread to put this in. I was reading up on a rougue-like game called Elona, when I found this gem

Gamers, especially GMs, need to decompress, too. Gaming can start feeling like a job, getting into something mindless for 15-20 minutes at a time can really help. While big games like World of Warcraft or Mass Effect are a lot of fun, sometimes we just need to look at something besides words on a screen for a few minutes before getting back to work on the Next Great Game™. I used to play solitaire or play poker online for a few minutes when I felt like this but last year I discovered a free game called Elona.

Maybe I'm too sensitive, but I was awestrcuk by this paragraph. It speaks such volumes of about modern games (specifically, MMOs at least) that it leaves me utterly speechless.

[DEL]

Herr Schatten wrote;

To sum it up: Games got driven into the mainstream by people who had no clue. Unfortunately, they got so successful that no one who makes games for money wants to go back to the days when games were about playing them anymore. This has drained most creativity, but as long as the money keeps rolling in, no one really cares.

^True.
Like I've mentioned before, these clueless people set movie-like 'realism' to be their Holy Grail. It is what they seek.
It can be used for Driving games, FPS, sports and even RPGs (granted), but it should not be applied across the board like they do now.

As Herr Schatten says, the industry is populated by non-gamer developers who seek to produce realism in games, they know not why? .
They have long since embarked on a path with horse blinkers on. They don't even know how to look sideways, let alone backwards to see where and when they went wrong.
The templates have been set (quite literally).