Most under-rated games ever?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:24 am

Xeno's blocky graphics make my heart feel all warm since I grew up playing games with blocky graphics. Story is retarded, though.

Solarus · Post by **Solarus** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:47 pm

Enhasa wrote: Solarus: Honestly, everyone I've seen who likes Xenogears likes the 2nd disc more than the 1st. Maybe that's because you pretty much have to, or else admit the game is flawed. Monolith is a Nintendo 1st party developer now, just FYI if you didn't know. And the Xenogears guys didn't move to Namco, that was just their publisher. Also, Xenogears already has sequels/prequels made. You don't get to pretend they never existed even if you don't like them.

With reference to the sequels/prequels thing, it's been thoroughly beaten to death, but even Monolith doesn't consider Xenosaga a prequel to Xenogears. The closest thing to it that they were even willing to talk about was a "spiritual recreation in an alternate universe" because technically they're not allowed to make any games involving Xenogears due to Square still having the rights. If you follow the lore connected with Xenosaga and Perfect Works anyway, it's obvious that Monolith liked the Xenogears universe and general idea they created and wanted to make something in that vein without stepping on any toes. To do that, they had to create a new series.

And People preferring the second disk? The only reason that exists is because Square was being tight-pursed and wanted to funnel more money into Final Fantasy IX. Since Xenogears had already spent a lot of time in production, it was an obvious choice. You're right that people would have to admit an obvious flaw in the game if they don't consider the second disk to be their favorite (well even then it's a bit of a stretch), but that's because it IS flawed. That's what happens when budget cuts occur. You settle for less than ideal. I like the second disk, don't get me wrong, but it is nowhere near the perfection that Xenogears displays on the first disk (especially near the end).

I didn't know about Monolith being a developer for Nintendo because I haven't been following them since Xenosaga (which I did still like btw. I just felt it wasn't up to the standard set by Xenogears). An interesting fact, and I wonder what they're going to try cooking up now

However, at the time of the Xenosaga series, Namco did own them. They had some ridiculous majority of shares in the company (like 90% or something). But regardless, with Square having the rights to Xenogears laying around for anyone willing to spend enough money for them, and with a fractured former developer, I'd cast away any real possibilities of Xenogears being turned into a remake OR a Visual Novel. It's a game that will likely never see the light of day again.

With regards to the debate as to whether Under-rated is really under-appreciated by my inherent picks, it really depends on how you look at it: RE:O for example was quite literally mangled by reviewers (with the exception of Famitsu, who apparently loved it to death). Constantly receiving reviews in the 6s or 7s for reasons rarely ever explained further than "no voice chat" or "graphics aren't all that great". Since I, and a fair number of others consider the game to be extremely good (not just decent or mediocre), I would list it as my number one under-rated game ever, although under-appreciated can also be tagged to the same game, just with less tangible proof for that opinion.

DMC2 is just plain bad. It deserves the reviews it received, and I've never seen a single person argue them. When you think about it, DMC2 has managed to take every single thing about the first game that made it good (difficulty, style, music, gamepla), and turned it 180 degrees almost as though Capcom was attempting to make their game a failure. Dante/Lucia must die mode was easier than normal in the original. The badass loud-mouthed sarcasm and interesting settings were exchanged for quiet brooding and brown... Everything. The music was equally bland and gameplay was slowed down and felt less intuitive. The game managed to fail on every possible level, and should never appear on any real list of under-rated OR appreciated games simply because I cannot think of a single thing the game did, even when not attached to the DMC name that was anything particularly special or even fun.

I think the main reason it's valid for me to list Chrono Cross is simply for the fact that I'm listing it as an individual game. The reason everyone hated Chrono Cross so much (besides as you've already stated, a fairly large number of people who think it's under-rated), is simply because it's supposed to be a sequel to Chrono Trigger (and it technically is. In fact, it was meant to be for a while and borrows some elements from Radical Dreamers) and didn't feel "chrono-triggery" enough. Many high profile reviewers loved the game, and it received universal acclaim in that regard, yet you see nothing but ridiculously out of proportion claims of how terrible the game is when you look beyond that, most of them for stupid reasons like that mentioned above. In that regard, Chrono Cross feels like a game that despite having all the rights to success, and being supported in that by the people who matter, has been shit on at every turn by those who don't. In that regard, I would consider it to be under-rated, although a strong case can be made for it being under-appreciated and this can be rightfully so.

Zeether · Post by **Zeether** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:19 pm

Tokyo Xtreme Racer.

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:53 am

ZeetherKID77 wrote:Tokyo Xtreme Racer.

there's a game I've never understood, maybe I can only enjoy arcade racers?

It's one big track of off ramps in the dark! Am I missing something? Is is that fun to customize your rig when you can only take it through the same city on and off ramps over and over?

the cars look great (in txr2) but why do I hear about this title more than sega gt or something?

JusteZero · Post by **JusteZero** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:20 am

If your a fan of shmups you already play alot of under-rated games.

If I gotta name one I'll name Jim Power and the Lost Dimension in 3D(snes), I like it better than the turbo duo version music and all, even though they are almost the same. I think most complaints about this one are related to the extreme difficulty. If it looked nicer people would be screaming from rooftops how great it is.

beam · Post by **beam** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:19 am

Chiisana Kyoujin Microman : a playstation arena shmup with lock on system, an extremely fast gameplay and a lot of things to unlock (new modes/characters with different mechanics). But the more important is : it is great to play ! And it has a cinematic feeling due to the camera angles.

Feel the groove !

a quite complete review

edit : add ons !

Chou Jiryoku Senshi Microman: Generation 2000 : screenshots, review, back cover
Crisis City : screenshots. sort of Chiisana Kyojin Microman but more serious and not limited to one screen. It's buggy on ps2 though : the title screen music is choppy.
Dangan

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:22 am

Kingbuzzo wrote:the cars look great (in txr2) but why do I hear about this title more than sega gt or something?

Maybe because TXR's cars handle better than those in Sega GT.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:19 am

JusteZero wrote:If your a fan of shmups you already play alot of under-rated games.

Well said.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:49 am

Underrated game: Surprise Attack

Gozer · Post by **Gozer** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:26 pm

Castlevania X68000 aka Castlevania Chronicles.

Don't hear much talk about this entry in the series. Nothing terrible about this one. Damn fun. I guess it was overlooked because it only came out in japan when it was first released. When it finally got released in NA/EU it seems it was panned by most because it wasn't a sequel to symphony of the night.

TLB · Post by **TLB** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:42 pm

gunbird 2 is way too underrated. not enough people are playing it.

same with halo 3.

Zeether · Post by **Zeether** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:45 pm

Kingbuzzo wrote:
ZeetherKID77 wrote:Tokyo Xtreme Racer.
there's a game I've never understood, maybe I can only enjoy arcade racers?

It's one big track of off ramps in the dark! Am I missing something? Is is that fun to customize your rig when you can only take it through the same city on and off ramps over and over?

the cars look great (in txr2) but why do I hear about this title more than sega gt or something?

You don't understand what some people in Japan do at midnight then.

Koa Zo · Post by **Koa Zo** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:40 pm

I got two:
Advance Guardian Heroes: it didn't live up to people's expectations so it gets bashed. I feel that it is a very solid game and extremely enjoyable. One of my all time favorite GBA games.

Finny the Fish and the Seven Waters: This game has some issues such as the annoying voice dialogue for some of the characters, and some vague directions from time to time, but the world is enchanting, the gameplay is involved and unique, and the exploration felt, to me, like the good old days of 16 bit gaming.

TLB · Post by **TLB** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:13 pm

Oh yeah. What Koa Zo said, except AGH IS my favorite GBA game. I think. Maybe.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:10 pm

Razing Storm
- I've heard some complaining about it being kind of short (It can be cleared in 14'00 or less, I'll admit). A lot of players who had this complaint were ones who failed the Emergency Mission. This is a game made to be replayed- do it quicker next time and raise your score.

F.E.A.R. 2
- OK, it is a little easier than the first one. But IMO it's not any worse of a game. You can topple objects to use as cover, or occasionally dislodge something that's blocking a door.

Quake 4
- It has a bad reputation probably from people who have played the slapdash 360 version, which was probably rushed to hell due to Christmas coming soon after the 360 launch. Forget the port and just play it on PC. Just be sure to properly tailor the config.

Final Fight
- The moves are limited due to it being the first Capcom beat-em-up, but it's still one of the best. Why even think about Crime Fighters or Double Dragon 3 when you have this?

Tsukiyo ni Saraba/10,000 Bullets
- A 3rd Person Shooter with bullet time. Highly difficult, but fun. The graphics are very nice for something on PS2, even considering it's a not-so-old title (2005).

Streets of Rage 3/Bare Knuckle III
- The music is actually NOT bad. Japanese difficulty settings are a step behind the US version, so you want to play on Hard or higher with BKIII.

Mystical Fighter/Maou Renjishi
- It's a shame so many see this as a "kusoge" (when I listed it in the "kusoge you like" thread, that was based on general consensus and definitely not my opinion). It's at least good, on par with Double Dragon.

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:40 am

Solarus wrote:Ideally, everyone wants the 2nd disc to be an actual game like the first disk was, which would essentially double the length of an already massive game.

Xenogears, disc 1, consisted of walking around and pressing X to bring up text and scenes, several dungeons, and turn-based battles.

Xenogears, disc 2, consisted of text and scenes coming up on their own, one big-ass dungeon, and turn-based battles.

I'm not sure what you want added to disc 2. Should there have been another dungeon to trudge through before you get to fight Sufal Mass? Should it have been necessary to fly back to Nortune and walk around until you talk to the right people or press the right switch to launch Yiggdrasil IV? Stuff like that would've made the game longer, like you say, but I don't think shoving more padding in would've made it any better.

Anyway, a fun game I don't see mentioned much is the original Kunio. It's beautiful in its hideousness!

Zeether · Post by **Zeether** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:48 am

Galaxian^3 is underrated. Only problem is the arcade game is hard to find and the only working one in the US I know of has problems. I wish Namco would put it on Wiiware with updated graphics or on Virtual Console Arcade.

saucykobold · Post by **saucykobold** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:36 am

Gozer wrote:Castlevania X68000 aka Castlevania Chronicles.

Don't hear much talk about this entry in the series. Nothing terrible about this one. Damn fun. I guess it was overlooked because it only came out in japan when it was first released. When it finally got released in NA/EU it seems it was panned by most because it wasn't a sequel to symphony of the night.

I love Castlevania X68000. I actually think it's much better than Symphony [ducks for cover].

To my knowledge, it's the only Castlevania that gets harder after the second loop (I think the difficulty tops out at loop six).

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:19 am

Little Samson, by Taito, on the NES. Wonder Boy 3 meets Mega Man.

Criminally overlooked.

Zeether · Post by **Zeether** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:42 pm

LSD for PSX.

nash87 · Post by **nash87** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:19 pm

perfect dark on the N64 is way underrated.....screw goldeneye

homura also needs some recognition

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:54 pm

A big swath of Perfect Dark seems unplayable to me now. Mainly the missions. Then again the N64 gives me headaches unless I re-acclimate to it, despite it being my main gaming machine during the PlayStation years.

I stood up for Maou Renjishi, dunno where these people calling it a kusoge are.

Castlevania X68000's rep is solid within the CV community, probably inflated if anything by people who will buy the original despite not having a X68000 machine

I hope to play Galaxian^3 someday. There is the PlayStation port, of course.

Zeether · Post by **Zeether** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:04 pm

Ed Oscuro wrote: I hope to play Galaxian^3 someday. There is the PlayStation port, of course.

It's a good port, but you may need some friends to play with (or you can use a CPU player). Also there are English voices in the PAL version but as a tradeoff there's a slower framerate...

Necronopticous · Post by **Necronopticous** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:16 pm

Gravitar.

No_not_like_Quake · Post by **No_not_like_Quake** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:19 am

Rob wrote:Story is retarded, though.

It was an Evangelion wannabe. Sad times those were, the few years post-Evangelion.

RoninBuddha · Post by **RoninBuddha** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:20 am

dennin aleste
-most people tend to prefer musha more... but this 'sequel' was just as good imo

Matsunaga · Post by **Matsunaga** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:17 pm

Elixir wrote:It's 2D and it's aged very well in comparison to other games like Xenogears or FF7, which are not worth playing today.

Not worth playing today? That's just stupid. I guess you care more about graphics than gameplay. I played through both in the last year, and they are just as great as ever.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:14 pm

Matsunaga wrote:
Elixir wrote:It's 2D and it's aged very well in comparison to other games like Xenogears or FF7, which are not worth playing today.
Not worth playing today? That's just stupid. I guess you care more about graphics than gameplay. I played through both in the last year, and they are just as great as ever.

Just because you enjoyed them again doesn't mean they have aged well. FF7 is a horribly bloated goose chase and Xenogears is a pixellated mess with a second disc that shouldn't even exist. But they were good in their own time, I will admit that. Back in 1999 or whenever, I did play through and beat FF7, although I had to use a guide because I had no fucking clue why we had to go to some irrelevant town and add another useless character to the fifth slot of our party which we'll NEVER end up using. Best thing out of that was chocobo breeding and the Gold Saucer thing.

I think Mr. Mosquito and No One Can Stop Mr. Domino both belong in this thread.

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:13 pm

Elixir wrote:
Matsunaga wrote:
Elixir wrote:It's 2D and it's aged very well in comparison to other games like Xenogears or FF7, which are not worth playing today.
Not worth playing today? That's just stupid. I guess you care more about graphics than gameplay. I played through both in the last year, and they are just as great as ever.
Just because you enjoyed them again doesn't mean they have aged well. FF7 is a horribly bloated goose chase and Xenogears is a pixellated mess with a second disc that shouldn't even exist. But they were good in their own time, I will admit that.

That's bullshit. When you sit down and play a video game, you either have fun or you don't. The year on the calender doesn't change that.

You're free to think FF7 and Xenogears are bad, but if so, they were always bad. Xenogears in 2009 is identical to Xenogears in '98.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:31 am

Mortificator wrote:
That's bullshit. When you sit down and play a video game, you either have fun or you don't. The year on the calender doesn't change that.

You're free to think FF7 and Xenogears are bad, but if so, they were always bad. Xenogears in 2009 is identical to Xenogears in '98.

It isn't. Think about it. Xenogears in '98 isn't the same as it is now. That would only be true if game reviewers didn't compare newer games to old, and newer games weren't released that are trying to improve on what is already available. Both games simply have not aged very well. But it's not just those two, it's pretty much every 3D PS1 game out there. FF7 is incredibly overrated, no doubt, even though I played though it at the time. Xenogears wasn't even released here but I did play it back then (unaware that it was a pirated copy I was playing). Both games are also rated highly since they were most people's first RPGs.

I liked FF7 when I played it. Otherwise I obviously would have spent 60+ hours beating the game. But now I just don't care about FF7, almost entirely because of the fanbase. Oh, and the whole "go here for no reason and get another party member" crap. Kingdom Hearts has already also done this to some extent since you can't have a conversation about the series without pre-teens popping up everywhere. If people didn't compare old games to new games, games wouldn't progress. Since really, everyone is trying to imitate the 90's. Especially with RPGs.

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