Under Defeat for DC

[K-J N.]

Eurogamer review.

[The Coop]

He's guilty of overusing 4-plus syllable words

[Frogacuda]

Eurogamer review.

He falls into to one thing you should never do in a review; adressing the reviews of others. It'll always come off poorly. A review is not really about some fact of the quality of the game. It's about wether or not the reviewer enjoyed it and, more importantly, wether those reading the review will enjoy it. That latter point makes it self-defeating to pass judgement on others who enjoyed the game as ideally, you should be explaining to such people that they would be well advided to look into the game.

He also has difficulty reconciling that the reason some rate the game so highly is not that they are starved for shmups, but rather their affinity for the genre, and UD's exceptionality compared to other games of the same school of design.

[llabnip]

Eurogamer review.

It's easy to look at the bottom line when reading a review and see the (admittedly fairly good 7/10) but I've learned to read between the lines.

When he says:

But it's hard to shake the feeling that this is '80s gaming dressed in '00s visuals

That line alone would make me want to pick it up. I'm not sure there could be higher praise for a game

[D]

But it's hard to shake the feeling that this is '80s gaming dressed in '00s visuals running on '90s hardware.

So? That is exactly what the entire shmup community is always looking for.
But he makes it sounds as if that is a bad thing thing. All games except FPS are 80's games. errrrm When did Doom come out? 1992!
So that is just 2 years away of being a 80's game also

Still a seven for a shmup is not that bad given by someone would like to give every shmup a 3/10 I guess his conciousness just couln't.
I agree with that seemingly high review on this board, yeah shame about the absence of attract music

[Alske]

But it's hard to shake the feeling that this is '80s gaming dressed in '00s visuals running on '90s hardware.

So? That is exactly what the entire shmup community is always looking for.
But he makes it sounds as if that is a bad thing thing. All games except

FPS are 80's games. errrrm When did Doom come out? 1992!
So that is just 2 years away of being a 80's game also

I'm not interested in playing 80s shooters.

What I'm looking for is 90s graphics in 00s gameplay. As much as you seem to imply otherwise Raji, Ikaruga, GigaWing, ESP Galuda, et al. don't play like any 80s shooters I know of.

Additionally, DDR, Mario 64, Katamari, and many other games don't seem rooted in the 80s to me.

[louisg]

Considering UD would be hard to pull off *well* without 3d graphics, you could say it's not really an 80s style game. And I've mentioned the game's use of 3d depth to change the way it's played... you could make the claim that most 3d shooters in fact only have 2d gameplay (gameplay happening on one level only), while UD does not, thus making it a slightly later game style. The only reason it might not be is if your definition of a new gameplay style is one that focuses on score such as Ikaruga-- but that nicely describes pretty much any pre-crash game. So, like any other recent shooter excepting perhaps sequels to older games, UD is a mixture of 80s gameplay values with newer ideas.

[Randorama]

Does anyone know of a translation of the ending?



Bizarre that it's not a good ending, btw.

?

[Damocles]

Any idea why Play-Asia is selling the LE version of UD for less than the normal edition? I picked mine up on a whim just recently...

[Twiddle]

Does anyone know of a translation of the ending?



Bizarre that it's not a good ending, btw.

?

Border Down didn't have a good ending.

(Radirgy and Chaos Field didn't have good endings either)

What's with all the bad endings lately?

[The Coop]

Does anyone know of a translation of the ending?



Bizarre that it's not a good ending, btw.

?

Border Down didn't have a good ending.

(Radirgy and Chaos Field didn't have good endings either)

What's with all the bad endings lately?

Be glad they didn't go with the "Congratulations! All Stages Clear!" **credits roll**-type ending, like Air Buster and others did back in the day.

[BulletMagnet]

Any idea why Play-Asia is selling the LE version of UD for less than the normal edition? I picked mine up on a whim just recently...

I think it's one of their discounted items under the summer sale or whatever they're holding...weird that they'd only discount the limited ed. and not the regular one, though.

[Kiken]

Four different option ships that can be deployed for a few seconds at a time to provide the only additional firepower and choice at your disposal.

Where do people keep getting this fourth Option type from? There's Vulcan, Cannon and Rocket (it's clearly written on page 9 of the manual).

Score attack players are encouraged to pick up a hefty bonus by only collecting options of the same type.

Or, you know... using that whole score-multiplier system based on killing something with only your Option weapons.

Predictably for a conversion of a Japanese-only Naomi arcade title from such a small indie-studio, the Dreamcast bonuses are thin on the code. Each hour you play releases an extra credit until freeplay is eventually and begrudgingly wrestled from G.Rev's RSI-riddled fingers. There's a ton of artwork to be won for those excited by such trivia but, thankfully, the weight of gameplay and sprawling levels that take dedication and learning to inch forward through, provide the strongest argument for replay.

Nobody ever bothers mentioning the unlockable replays (of which there are 10)... or the option to instantly begin from loop 2.

The game comes with both vertical and horizontal view mode options (in the arcade Under Defeat plays out on a vertically orientated monitor) but for everyone that doesn't have a TV they're willing to turn on its side, horizontal mode is the only meaningful choice here.

Vertically oriented monitor... he even writes it in the review. How much does a VGA cable cost? $10?
Yes, I can understand the annoyance of there not being an option for proper display on wide-screen TVs... however it's very rare that a screen ratio other than 4:3 is taken into account when these titles get ported home (in fact... DDP:DOJ is the only one I can think of with an option for 16:9 Yoko display).

I have to agree with llabnip, despite the 7/10 score... the review seems to paint a different picture.

[Frederik]

But it's hard to shake the feeling that this is '80s gaming dressed in '00s visuals running on '90s hardware.

So? That is exactly what the entire shmup community is always looking for.

I'm not interested in playing 80s shooters.

Yes, agreed, and seconed. One thing that always bugs me is when people think of shmups as a retro genre. Just because the genre has the peak of its popularity behind it and is one of the more or less initial genres of videogames doesn`t mean shmup fanatics are retro, wishing back the "good old days" or playing games that need to be at least 20 years old.

My absolute favourite game is Batrider, and was released in 1998 - thats an eight year old game. Not exactly retro or oldschool, but to me it marks one of the height points of shooting games with endless complexity.

UD might be an old-school styled shooter - but shmups are not retro or old-school by themselves.

[Randorama]

Border Down didn't have a good ending.

(Radirgy and Chaos Field didn't have good endings either)

What's with all the bad endings lately?

It's a small joke...G.Rev are ex-Taito programmers, and Taito never put happy endings, they were more "japanese" than the other companies in this regard.

[Twiddle]

Darius does have happy endings, but usually they're the harder routes.

[neoalphazero]

[quote="Kiken"]

Where do people keep getting this fourth Option type from? There's Vulcan, Cannon and Rocket (it's clearly written on page 9 of the manual).

[quote]

I was surprised that Edge made that goof too, their review of the game was pretty poor too, didn't see the point of mentioning Zero Gunner 2's 360 movement. *-neo

[Kron]

Edge in the last few years is a shadow of its former self and suffers badly from New Games Journalism where games are rated from the popularity of the genre and associated marketing/viability and not quality of the actual title.

[Mikey]

Edge's UD reviewer moaned about the vertical play area squashed into a horizontal screen, so evidently he didn't even use the TATE mode. He didn't even bother to turn a small TV or monitor on its side to play the game properly. Yet in an editorial months before they boasted about testing all their new 360 games on new high definition sets to view the games as they were meant to be viewed.

[Frogacuda]

Nobody ever bothers mentioning the unlockable replays (of which there are 10)... or the option to instantly begin from loop 2.

I mentioned them in my review.

Edge's Border Down review was atrocious, too. They clearly don't get the genre.

[Arvandor]

I've come to the realization, that Under Defeat, while very cool, and fun, is too slow paced and simplistic for me to be able to just dump time into like I did with Ikaruga, and am with ESPgaluda and Dodonpachi. It's a whip out and play title I think. There's just nothing to improve on. I can play the first three stages with my eyes closed, but because of this and lulls in the action, I find myself spacing out and dying stupidly when I shouldn't be. Whereas in Ikaruga I was always able to improve my chaining, and there were always bullets to dodge. Ikaruga keeps you on your toes; Under Defeat doesn't =/ I think I'll bring Radirgy to work and give that one some more time. That is a game I think I could put a lot of time into, especially since the scoring system is so much fun, even if it does feel broken at times -_^

It could go back to the whole "old school" shooter thing mentioned. I like me some Gradius, Raiden, Gunsmoke, and whatnot... But I just can't dump large amounts of time into them and them alone anymore. I can whip 'em out and still enjoy them, but I doubt I'd ever play them enough and get good enough to 1cc them. ESPgaluda on the other hand I don't ever see myself getting bored with, along with a slew of my Saturn shooters and a few of my DC shooters.

So while the old school/new style blend in Under Defeat is kind of neat, and sort of refreshing, overall it sets it a fair deal below a great deal of recent shooters. At least for me ^_^

[TLB]

I am absolutely in love with the blend of old and new in this game. The music certainly doesn't hurt; it's my favorite STG soundtrack ever. The awesometastic visuals, the humongous explosions, the hard-as-fuck-sometimes difficulty, the audio...Especially the audio. Get yourself some good bass and try listening to this game. You'll cry at its beauty. It's simply incredible. The explosions and the music, even pressing the start button with good bass make the game that much more enjoyable.



BASS

[Limbrooke]

Nobody ever bothers mentioning the unlockable replays (of which there are 10)... or the option to instantly begin from loop 2.

I mentioned them in my review.

Edge's Border Down review was atrocious, too. They clearly don't get the genre.

I'd be interested in reading this article. Anyone have a scan of said Edge issue?

[Limbrooke]

http://www.team-e.co.jp/sp/rgmc/kddv00002/

Figured it was worth an update, seems INH finally got around to a new insanity DVD: The Soldier of Fortune for Under Defeat. Should be quite interesting although no soundtrack inclusion, just a data disc. I like the price though, at potentially under $50 shipped - it's the cheapest one INH has released in a long time.

[BIL]

Thanks for the heads-up! I wonder what the scores are like... WR is 7.5m last I knew. Quite tempted to pick it up, since it's the first new INH release for a game I follow since I got into shooters.

Nice to see a G-Rev superplay. On a related note, "The Multiple Suicide Border Down" would make my year.

[Kiken]

Thanks for the heads up on this, Limbrooke. Hopefully either CocoEbiz or NCSX will start taking pre-orders for it soon.. seeing as it comes out at the end of this month (same day Strania becomes available).

[the2bears]

Been playing this again, loving it more now, so this is interesting news. Thanks.

Bill

[gct]

Thanks for the notice, Under Defeat is one of the few shooters remaining after my last big collection purge. I may consider buying this DVD and getting back into the game.

[Limbrooke]

Preview video is up and it only heightens my anticipation.
http://www.inhgroup.com/image/item/unde ... mple01.wmv

Comes out tomorrow although vgmworld hasn't stocked it yet. Same for ncsx although Yesasia has it. All the same I look forward to getting my copy.

[Dave_K.]

Yesasia says this a dvd region code 2?