Hardware size VS Features...

[Pixel_Outlaw]

Honestly I don't get why people keep insisting on things being smaller and smaller when it comes at the cost of features. Why are people to excited to get smaller devices if it means loosing capabilities that the older hareware had? I've been a bit vague with that but here are some examples:

-Smaller "mini" laptops computers that are underpowered (what Nancy can't just carry a solid laptop with a good screen and keyboard?)
-Gameboy SP (horrid dpad and hurt my hands, not like the GBA, also batteries are more expensive and less common)
-PSP Go ( where do I start with this one)
-PS3 slim (removed backward compatibility)
-PSP Slim ( what was wrong with the first? I like the thickness for my hands)
-iPod mini (Again, this makes loosing these things even more easy, the first was small enough to he very portable and felt good in the hand)
-Cellphones (the 80's brick was bad, but now you almost need a stylus for the keys)

Why do people find it OK to make things smaller only to sacrifice good qualities? If you know of any more electronics please add them. I'm working on a paper for college.

[Specineff]

The D-pad on the PSP slim sucked. Also, smaller form factor= less material to use = reduced production costs.

[Pixel_Outlaw]

The D-pad on the PSP slim sucked. Also, smaller form factor= less material to use = reduced production costs.

Good point. I have heard that the build quality was lacking compared to the previous version. Please keep the examples coming folks. I'm looking for examples of things being made slightly smaller for no real reason and also things loosing compatibility just so that they can be made smaller.

Here is a great article.
http://news.digitaltrends.com/talk-back ... s-own-good

[Crayon]

The PS3 slim really doesn't fit on that list. Backwards compatibility was removed from the fats two years ago.

Actually, I don't think you are really looking at the big picture. Things like cellphones and mp3 players serve different purposes for different people. Some people would sacrifice a screen on an mp3 player if it guarantees supreme comfort while working out. Netbooks or 'mini' laptops are a godsend to most college students that just need to browse the web or take notes. Isn't it wasteful to use a full sized laptop that uses way more energy just for doing simple tasks?

I think it just comes down to markets. At least for most consumer electronics. A netbook hits a different market than a gaming laptop. A sleek smartphone hits a different market than a rugged cellphone. An ipod shuffle hits a different market than an ipod touch. Etc.

[Specineff]

Oops. I meant to say the D-pad on the Phat PSP sucked, and that therefore, the Slim was a smart redesign, except for the ultra-glossy finish. I was presenting a counterpoint, not agreeing.

Damned insomnia.

[Ed Oscuro]

-Smaller "mini" laptops computers that are underpowered (what Nancy can't just carry a solid laptop with a good screen and keyboard?)

I carry the largest notebook of anybody I personally know (the Asus G2S with a 17" screen, at least 10 pounds; shipping weight of the boxed item is over 20, which includes the power brick and cheap backpack etc.) but having a BlackBerry or iPhone style device is very helpful. If I could have a small thing like that for taking notes or whatever I'd use it constantly. As it is I'm going to see how much mileage I can get out of this used Blackberry I picked up.

[cools]

-Smaller "mini" laptops computers that are underpowered (what Nancy can't just carry a solid laptop with a good screen and keyboard?)
-Gameboy SP (horrid dpad and hurt my hands, not like the GBA, also batteries are more expensive and less common)
-PSP Go ( where do I start with this one)
-PS3 slim (removed backward compatibility)
-PSP Slim ( what was wrong with the first? I like the thickness for my hands)
-iPod mini (Again, this makes loosing these things even more easy, the first was small enough to he very portable and felt good in the hand)
-Cellphones (the 80's brick was bad, but now you almost need a stylus for the keys)

Why do people find it OK to make things smaller only to sacrifice good qualities? If you know of any more electronics please add them. I'm working on a paper for college.

1) A pocketable full X86 machine would be exceptionally useful to me. So far none of them have quite met my criteria. If you're carrying around a whole bunch of other stuff as - smaller, lighter machines are of real benefit. Power is of not much concern, so long as they are reasonably usable these machines serve a very valid purpose.
2) Clamshell, backlit. Your hands might hurt and hate the dpad - I have no problem whatsoever with it, and consider it the finest handheld ever made. I find the GBA micro too small, solely because the screen is tiny.
3) Skip, couldn't care less.
4) Backwards compatibility was removed a long while before the slim.
5) You have a point there, as the slim also had worse battery life. The PSP was always too big to fit comfortably in a pocket, and the slim didn't help there.
6) It was still perfectly usable.
7) I use a Nokia N78. Go look at the size of the keys. I was very surprised at how usable it is, but if the phone itself was much smaller these keys would be tough to use.

For some "no real reason" examples - look back at older gaming consoles. SMS, MD, PSX, PS2, Gameboy - they lost no real features but were redesigned.

[Shatterhand]

the SMS lost compatibility with the 3D Glasses and with SG-1000 games.The MD lost compatibility with the Base Converter. The PS1 lost the Reset button. I am sure the PS2 also lost something, but I can't remember what it was now.

[Ganelon]

Yeah, the d-pad on the PSP-1000 sucked with the right direction messing up the left side of the screen. Also, are there any battery life comparisons? From what I've seen and heard, all the PSPs have the same battery life since the slims use less power. And if you give slims a fat battery, they have a far longer battery life.

Anyway, US NES lost the AV adapter. Wondermega lost MIDI functionality. PS2 lost HDD support (without mods).

[BulletMagnet]

-PSP Slim ( what was wrong with the first? I like the thickness for my hands)

In this case they actually added a feature or two, most notably the ability to play games as well as movies by hooking the PSP up to a TV - also, despite how many issues there are with the PSPGo, they did add the (long overdue, imo) ability to connect a PS3 controller to it and use that to play the games instead of the PSP pad/buttons. Obviously a nonfactor for "on the go" gaming, but a nice option if you're just playing at home - I'd love to see more portables have some option along those lines, if paired with the ability to play the games on a larger screen.

Of course, as others have said, the PS3 was having features shaved off of it long before the Slim came out.

[Ex-Cyber]

1) A pocketable full X86 machine would be exceptionally useful to me. So far none of them have quite met my criteria. If you're carrying around a whole bunch of other stuff as - smaller, lighter machines are of real benefit. Power is of not much concern, so long as they are reasonably usable these machines serve a very valid purpose.

To me the biggest (potential) advantage to netbooks is greater durability. The whole netbook trend was basically sparked by legions of techies saying stuff to the effect of "Someone needs to make an adult version of the XO-1 and sell it through normal channels, because mainstream laptops are overpowered and unreliable pieces of shit". I wouldn't advocate using one as your only computer, but it makes a lot of sense if you have access to a desktop at home/work/school for "real" work.

Anyway, my biggest pet peeve with miniaturization is when companies substitute proprietary "mini" connectors for standard ones. Proprietary connectors are annoying in general, but they seem to be especially prevalent on tiny devices.

[Pixel_Outlaw]

Just thought of another, ps2 slim loosing the original multitap compatability which was really hilarious considering how many people enjoy FPS games and probably had one from the fat model

[cools]

the SMS lost compatibility with the 3D Glasses and with SG-1000 games.The MD lost compatibility with the Base Converter. The PS1 lost the Reset button. I am sure the PS2 also lost something, but I can't remember what it was now.

Like I said, no real features

[jonny5]

Yeah, the d-pad on the PSP-1000 sucked with the right direction messing up the left side of the screen. Also, are there any battery life comparisons? From what I've seen and heard, all the PSPs have the same battery life since the slims use less power. And if you give slims a fat battery, they have a far longer battery life.

Anyway, US NES lost the AV adapter. Wondermega lost MIDI functionality. PS2 lost HDD support (without mods).

fat batteries will not fit in slims.....slims batteries last less time because the slim PSP's screen uses more power.....you can get batteries with larger charge capacity tho

also for Pixel_Outlaw....your list in your first post isnt a very good argument for your case....you have a lot of facts wrong and your issues with the newer items are kinda trivial

[Specineff]

Fat batteries will fit the slim with a replacement cover.

[jonny5]

Fat batteries will fit the slim with a replacement cover.

kinda defeats the purpose tho.....the one side of the PSP would be like on a phat and the other not....would probably feel weird

[Specineff]

It does, yes. It doesn't matter when I'm listening to music and it sits on my lap, but for gaming, it surely feels very odd.

[ED-057]

I thought the situation with laptops was kind of bizarre during the time when screens were getting bigger but the chassis was getting thinner. The models with 12" screens which were normal-sized, historically speaking (compared to 486 laptops), shed ports/drives/slots/battery mass, and became "ultra portables." Now if you want certain features you need to get at least a 14" LCD. (BTW, a 17" screen qualifies as a LAPtop? *insert joke about fat Americans*) In any case, I feel that all the new machines I have seen recently are too... metrosexual, but I guess that is off-topic

[EPS21]

Fat batteries will fit the slim with a replacement cover.

kinda defeats the purpose tho.....the one side of the PSP would be like on a phat and the other not....would probably feel weird

The only reason to use phat batteries on a slim is just to install cfw via pandora's battery (whether you bought one or cut the pin yourself). Unless it does give more battery life to a slim psp, which may be true since its rated 600mAh more than a slim battery.

To get back on topic, there's only one reason I want to see electronics to get smaller, is to fit in your pockets easier . It's too bad the baggy jeans fad is about a decade too late, so netbooks could fit in your pants

[KindGrind]

I think smaller hardware is generally seen as "sexier". It may not be as powerful or effective, but it attracts the ladies.

[t0yrobo]

People are much quicker to forgive faults for stuff that is small or seemingly delicate. It's a trick that designers have been using a lot lately. Few enough people are actually very knowledgable about the stuff they buy that they can get away with way to often.

[Ganelon]

fat batteries will not fit in slims.....slims batteries last less time because the slim PSP's screen uses more power.....you can get batteries with larger charge capacity tho

Those first 2 statements are incorrect. Sony even released larger batteries specifically marketed to fit the PSP-2000 with a new battery cover (although a cover isn't required to clip the battery on). It also sounds like you're confusing the PSP-3000, which was stated to draw more power than the PSP-2000 and hence have slightly worse battery life; but both are slims. The PSP-2000 definitely draws less power than the fat PSP-1000.

Again, I think we'd need actual experiments, esp. since the majority of places I've seen have said that the slim PSPs last longer even without it. But I won't believe that either without empirical data.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

the SMS lost compatibility with the 3D Glasses and with SG-1000 games.The MD lost compatibility with the Base Converter. The PS1 lost the Reset button. I am sure the PS2 also lost something, but I can't remember what it was now.

When SCEI axed the Firewire port from the later PS2 consoles and replaced it with a IR (Infared Reciever) port for the handy PS2 DVD remote control. On the 1st-gen PS2 consoles, you had to buy a seperate official Sony DVD Remote controller with utility append disc to add the latest DVD drivers to make it work + use external IR DVD remote dongle interface. SCEA sold the PS2 DVD remote + DVD update disc back in early September of 2001 Stateside. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[iatneH]

-Smaller "mini" laptops computers that are underpowered (what Nancy can't just carry a solid laptop with a good screen and keyboard?)

I like small computers, both portable machines and desktops, but I like them powerful too. You just have to know where to look for them, because you won't find them at BestBuy.

My everyday-carry notebook is the Everun Note manufactured by Raon Digital, it's a 7" clamshell touchscreen, small enough to fit in an inner coat pocket but packing a dual-core 1.2 GHz Turion 64 X2, and ATI RS690E chipset. Currently running an 80GB Toshiba hard drive and it's a little bit sluggish but eventually I may put a SSD in (actually had a MTRON Mobi 3000 in before).

My desktop is in the mini-ITX form factor and based on Zotac GeForce 9300 ITX-WiFi. I'm running a 2.93 GHz Core2Duo E7500, 4GB RAM, and a 60GB OCZ SSD + 320GB 7200rpm notebook HDD. I fit this all in a mini-box m350 which is barely bigger than the motherboard itself and probably smaller than some textbooks you might have had for school, although today I transferred it into a Lian-Li PC-Q07 (the red one is so hot'n'sexy) along with a PNY 9800GT. Not really too many sacrifices here, though it would be nice to have just one more SATA connector.

Anyway, I know what you mean about the underpowered tiny netbook thing. I used to have one, but I also wanted a bit more horsepower. Unfortunately people don't look very far and think that these Atom processor things are the only small computers around.

[Pixel_Outlaw]

Thanks for the thoughts guys. Looking back, I will admit that some of my examples were a bit weak but really what I was getting at is that sometimes the newer and smaller product is not better than its older counterpart. I think companies really should consider WHY they are making something smaller. Does size really matter that much all the time? Is smaller with less features ALWAYS better? The answer is no. I would say that the Game Boy Pocket improved on the original Game Boy in just about every way. But there still remain examples of nonsensical downscailing to detrimental effect. Those bastardized electronics are what I want to focus on.

I still do not understand selling a product just because it is marginally smaller. Sometimes it just feels good to have man sized electronics.

[Ed Oscuro]

1) A pocketable full X86 machine would be exceptionally useful to me. So far none of them have quite met my criteria. If you're carrying around a whole bunch of other stuff as - smaller, lighter machines are of real benefit. Power is of not much concern, so long as they are reasonably usable these machines serve a very valid purpose.

Ever seen this?

The real drawback, besides battery life I guess, was (probably still is) price.

Edit: Also, add no more repair support to the list of drawbacks, as the company seems close to folding.

[quoth09]

1) A pocketable full X86 machine would be exceptionally useful to me. So far none of them have quite met my criteria. If you're carrying around a whole bunch of other stuff as - smaller, lighter machines are of real benefit. Power is of not much concern, so long as they are reasonably usable these machines serve a very valid purpose.

Ever seen this?

The real drawback, besides battery life I guess, was (probably still is) price.

Edit: Also, add no more repair support to the list of drawbacks, as the company seems close to folding.

You know, I thought those were really cool when they came out, however yeah the kicker on those is the price.
Not surprising they are going under with the way the economy is right now; I mean seriously, who can afford a $1000+ pocket PC? I bet all the netbooks coming out for $250-400 in the last year or so is what killed them, b/c those things are only about 3 times bigger than the OQO's, and just as powerful if not more so.

[KBZ]

Netbooks have been some of the best hardware the industry has ever pushed out.

for me the desktop + netbook combo has been the sweetspot since they both do what they do better than anything else.

When I'm going class to class, then biking home, there's no way I want anything more than the extra 2lbs that my netbook adds.

for me, laptops have always lacked the features that netbooks provide. They were heavy as hell, too big, and too expensive. Paying for performance in a laptop is never worth it when you're on a tight budget.

So I'd say that hardware size IS a feature.