XRGB-3

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:14 pm

I simply mailed Peter from NCS and asked him about the sales numbers of the XRGB machines and he stated that they sold about 300 XRGB-2 units, about 2,200 (!) XRGB2+ units and about 800 XRGB-3 units. Micomsoft mentioned at one point that the 2plus sold 30,000 units in Japan.

I still don't think that much more than 5,000 of the 3 have been made. I can imagine that the most retro gamers already had the 2plus and not too many upgraded due to the introduced lag along with the scaling.

30,000 for the 2plus is quite a number though !

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:05 pm

30K is quite a number, but in some ways it was what I was expecting because otehrwise they would be really difficult to get and price would be higher I guess. Thanks for checking that out Fudoh.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:40 pm

Could some of you who use the XRGB-3 with the PS2 and component post their settings? I need A/C, AFC, Brightness, Gamma, Sharpness and so on. I have some flickering in the colors, especially white thats a little annoying. I made a video using my phone but once again its not really noticeable after uploading to youtube. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Klex1p_NmU )

Other than that the picture is great but if possible i would like to get rid of the flickering.

Game (Espen Galuda) is set to 240p and LPF is on

EDIT: Apparently the game i played was DoDonpachi Dai-Oh-Jou, i have no idea whats going on...

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:54 pm

All standard, A/D 189, AFC automatic (2 I think), but that differs from time to time and no problems with DDPDOJ. Are you using a D-Terminal cable or a component cable plus adapter ? On the later one you could try to remove the GND from the red and blue cable (just pull the connectors back 5mm or so, so that only the signal is passed, not the ground) and see if it changes something. I meant to try it myself, but did't get around yet.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:41 pm

Your A/C setting improved the picture a lot. Removing GND didn't make any difference.

It's still flickering a little but its better than before. Thanks

pcb_revival · Post by **pcb_revival** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:15 pm

First of all I dont any of the X-RGB models but it as crossed my mind a number of times why dosnt someone release a custom firmware with English language options.

Because Micomsoft have no intrest in providing such a firmware and if the units sales are accurate then I suppose thats understandable.

I am sure theres plenty of people who visit this forum with the technical ability.

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:33 pm

When I got mine I considered this since I've done similar things in the past. I had forgotten to check it. The issue here is the checksum, not hacking the firmware.

I am guessing changing the text to English would be the easy part, in a quick hack abbreviated stuff could be used. The problem as stated above is figuring out the checksum (where is it stored and how) and a possible packing scheme used by the firmware updater in order to hack it and change those values in the file.

akumajo · Post by **akumajo** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:01 pm

ok lets start a brainstorming...

files are installed to : C:\Program Files\XRGB-3\Update Tool

in this folder we can see :

<folder> data02
<file> unins000.dat <- used for uninstall program
<file> unins000.exe <- uninstall program
<file> xrgb3full_v2_12.x3b <- open with notepad, tell to flashing program where are files + some hexadecimal values
<file> xrgb3_update_v1_20.exe <- flashing program

now inside data02 folder :
<file> osd_text_wide_v2_11.bin <- firmware file for ?
<file> xrgb3cpu_v2_12.hex <- firmware file for ?
<file> xrgb3_osd_wide_v2_11.dat <- firmware file for ?
<file> xrgb3_v2_10.bit <- firmware file for ?
<file> xrgb_cmd_wide_v2_12.bin <- firmware file for ?

about xrgb3full_v2_12.x3b :
download,\data02\xrgb3_v2_10.bit,&h000000 <- what is this value? say to flash program where to flash ?
download,\data02\xrgb3_osd_wide_v2_11.dat,&he0000 <- same as before
download,\data02\osd_text_wide_v2_11.bin,&he4000 <- same as before
download,\data02\xrgb_cmd_wide_v2_12.bin,&he8000 <- same as before
download_hex_prog_write,\data02\xrgb3cpu_v2_12.hex,&hf8000 <- same as before

lets hunt

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:25 pm

I just took a quick look. You are right about the xrgb3full_v2_12.x3b file being the address space to where to flash to.

I dived into the firmware files (those under the data02 folder) and believe that if one file has the text, it must be osd_text_wide_v2_10.bin just based on its structure and file name. As you can see it composed of segments separated by the 0x0D character.

I also checked all the files for text in plain Japanese encodings, and found none at all. I tried sjis, EUC, old jis, utf-8, utf-7, unicode and nec code pages.

darthcloud · Post by **darthcloud** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:25 am

I just got a brand new xrgb3 and I was wondering what the full hd option is for below the resolution setting?

Chacranajxy · Post by **Chacranajxy** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:32 am

Still haven't gotten the XRGB 3 yet, but I'm planning on dropping the cash pretty soon, but I have a question that suddenly popped up...

Why can't I just get the cheaper XSelect D4 instead? All I need is to be able to use RGB signals over VGA... and not have lag... would this let me do that?

brentsg · Post by **brentsg** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:20 am

Chacranajxy wrote:Still haven't gotten the XRGB 3 yet, but I'm planning on dropping the cash pretty soon, but I have a question that suddenly popped up...

Why can't I just get the cheaper XSelect D4 instead? All I need is to be able to use RGB signals over VGA... and not have lag... would this let me do that?

Think of the XSelect D4 as a switchbox of sorts, to send signals that are already progressive to a computer monitor. For interlaced signals it will simply pass them through.

pcb_revival · Post by **pcb_revival** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:36 am

pcb_revival wrote:First of all I dont any of the X-RGB models but it as crossed my mind a number of times why dosnt someone release a custom firmware with English language options.

Is it just the XRGB-3 that as the Japanese menus as someone selling a model 2+ states the menu system is all English on their unit.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:56 pm

If you spend a few hours navigating the menus when you get the XRGB3 you will soon learn to use them fully even though they are in Japanese. I wouldn't want to risk bricking mine for a custom firmware with English text.

em0ti0n · Post by **em0ti0n** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:17 pm

I agree with Konsolkongen, within hours of extensive play with xrgb-3 anyone should be able to see where the most important settings are being located

pcb_revival · Post by **pcb_revival** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:38 pm

So do the earlier models have English language firmware as indicated in my previous post.

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:55 pm

Yes they do.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:08 am

If people are having trouble finding XRGB-3's this guy on eBay has 10 brand new ones for sale at 480$ each. Shipping worldwide and P&P appears to be free for standard shipping.

480$ is quite a lot of money but i paid about the same for mine and it has been well worth the money

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/XRGB-3-Upscan-Con ... .m63.l1177

EDIT: Actually by looking at his eBay name i can tell that this is the same guy Fudoh hooked me up with to get mine, so i can definitely recommend buying from him

em0ti0n · Post by **em0ti0n** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:58 am

I bought from the very same guy like Konsolkongen did, thanks to Fudoh

He has stand-alone shop here http://www.solaris-japan.com/index.php/ ... -unit.html, bought the unit there and have no single problem, so I can recommend

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:45 pm

Thats cheaper than eBay

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:52 pm

You can always inquire about a used unit from Yahoo Japan auction as well - or if you want a 2plus instead...

Chacranajxy · Post by **Chacranajxy** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:42 am

I finally ordered the fucking thing!

I should get it... fuck, I dunno. Sometime. Can't wait, though. I don't have a supergun yet, but I sure as hell have a Saturn that wants to look pretty.

Oh, so how do I tell a Japanese scart cable from a European one? I'd like it if the first thing I do isn't breaking the XRGB

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:53 am

The best way is to use a multimeter to check if the pinout matches the JAP or EU type.

http://mastersystem.dk/modding/pinouts.php

If pin 7 in the Saturn pinout matches pin 7 in the RGB end your cable is EU. Best to check a few more or all pins just to be safe.

EDIT: Please note that those pinouts are seen from the soldering side. You'll have to "mirror" the image when using the multimeter, or find better pinouts

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:55 pm

OK, since a *very long* time (4 years or so) I've recently unburried my Saturn to play a few classic through the XRGB-3. What's the common sense on Saturn through the XRGB ? Any problems at other people's setups ?

I'm using the front RGB input and I'm not entirely happy with the picture. Currently I'm using the 75ohm RGB setting since I only had the sync dropout a single time (title screen of Kyukyoku Tiger 2+) and I don't want to mess with the settings right now. I'm using official japanese Sega RGB cables which use Composite video instead of real Sync. While the LPF is off I can see artifacts in the background which are obviously caused by the composite video signal. But since I've LPF turned on anyway, they're wiped away and I didn't bother. What's bothering me though is that I've got a *slight* warping on top of the picture. Nowhere as serious as with a PCE or NG, but it's not really fixable using the AFC setting. In horizontally scrolling games it's not even noticeable, but on vertical scrolling shoot'em ups you can see it when the objects are passing the "warped inch".

So, before I get myself alternative RGB cables or start using a sync stripper, I just wanted to ask which kind of cables other Saturn users are using and if they have any problems (besides Konsolkongen loose of sync which was fixable by adjusting the input impendence of the RGB port) ??

EDIT/PS: Switched to the back RGB port a moment ago. Exactly the same picture with the same flaw. The back port is fixed to 220ohm input termination by the way, so the picture's darker with the same settings than on the front RGB port.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:21 pm

I just tested my original EU Saturn cable, its also uses comp-sync video like yours. Strange because it doesn't have the unnecessary pins in the cable but on the Saturn end the dedicated Sync pin is there but not connected to anything. I'm afraid i can't be of any help as have never experienced your problems, the only thing i have changed is the 75ohm to 220ohm option and colors.

Fudoh wrote:EDIT/PS: Switched to the back RGB port a moment ago. Exactly the same picture with the same flaw. The back port is fixed to 220ohm input termination by the way, so the picture's darker with the same settings than on the front RGB port.

Are you sure about that? I never had to change the colors when using the VGA input as RGBs.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:52 pm

Are you sure about that? I never had to change the colors when using the VGA input as RGBs.

I'll re-check, but since the 220/75ohm switch doesn't work on the back input, it's gotta be fixed to something.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:21 pm

Yes but i remember the picture to be very close to the RGBs front input set to 75ohm.

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:39 am

I just tested my Saturn with the XRGB-3. I don't have the specific game in question, so I looked for another game where sprites appeared from the top and moved down the screen.

My cable was made by chaoticjelly, and it uses pin 8 (c-sync) as sync. I opened teh cabel and it has no capacitors or resistors, and my Saturn is a Skeleton Japanese model.

I have no problems of the sort, neither I need to set the xrgb's 75/220 ohm setting. I tried also moving my switch with the LM1881 and the only effect on the signal is an horizontal displacement to the left when using the LM1881. With the Saturn I don't get the negative effects I was getting with the CPS-2 games (unstable sync), but the sync works perfectly fine without the LM and the Saturn.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:13 pm

Thanks guys! I tried my old PAL RGB cable (which does as well use Composite Video instead of Sync) and it gave me the same result. I also tried an external sync stripper as well as as RGBs-YUV transcoder from Kramer. All with the same result. Now, before I try another Saturn main unit, I just wanted to post a screenshot of what the wave looks like (as a buddy was over today and refused to see it...)

Chacranajxy · Post by **Chacranajxy** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:49 pm

I've got one last thing I'm curious about with the XRGB: basically, if I'm leaving it in linedoubling mode, will 480p games look any different than if I just hooked them up directly to the display? More specifically, should I bother plugging the Dreamcast into the XRGB via VGA, or just leave it as is?

The thing should get here in the next week, so I'm pretty stoked.

shmups.system11.org

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