Console --> Arcade monitor adapter (AVAILABLE, see 1st post)

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viletim
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by viletim »

neorichieb1971,

Well, I have to admit my arcade monitor is currently is outside of the cabinet. I do believe that there are people would like to use an arcade monitor for general purpose use outside of a cab. From what I hear, in some places it's much easier to buy a new arcade monitor than a 15 kHz domestic/pro RGB monitor. They also make great monitors for gaming because of all the accessible adjustments which are often hidden away in service mode in a domestic TV/Monitor.

Including full support for a number of different console controllers presents a few problems:
  • Cost - A big fat microcontroller, extra PCB real estate, and a hatful of adapter cables to plug into the game consoles proprietary controller ports will easily double or even triple the final price.
  • Time - This project must be all wrapped up by the end of the year. If it takes longer than that it will likely never be realised at all.
  • Interest - My main goal is to provide a good quality video amp with 100% compatibility. I'm not sure that I'm dedicated enough to implement a controller section to the same standard.
I also think that wiring up controls is simple enough that most people (hah, especially those with the dexterity to play shmups) could do it themselves without too much hassle. Everybody has different ideas on which buttons should be mapped where and this makes the DIY approach particularly rewarding when compared with what will inevitably be more rigid 'stock solution'. There are even Controller Interface Boards available which could be used with my adapter.

The stereo line level audio output will definitely remain in addition to the (monaural) audio amplifier.



Dave_K,

While the video signal from a game console (domestic video) and an arcade game board contain the same information, the electrical properties differ significantly.

One point of difference is that domestic video is allowed to be AC coupled while arcade video is always be DC coupled. Most consoles use AC coupled video. Explaining what this means in non-technical terms is is a real bastard of a task which I'll leave for another time. What's important to know is that no arcade board will output AC coupled video and it is taken for granted than any board will work with any monitor (with the exceptions of some boards that use unusual video timing).

To be able to make use of AC coupled video, all domestic monitors include what is known as a 'clamp' circuit. Arcade monitors do not need such a thing but many have one anyway. The main reason for this that arcade monitors and domestic monitors (TVs) are built using the same parts and as a clamp circuit it is a requirement for the latter, it is often cheaper and easier to include it than not to.

If AC coupled video is sent to a monitor with no clamp circuit then the brightness (black level) will change with the video content.

As it happens, VGA video is DC coupled which would explain why there is no clamp circuit in Ultimarc's J-Pac. From the picture in slap_fight's post, I can see that Ultimarc's console adapter also lacks a clamp which I believe makes it a poor design and not well suited for its intended purpose.



antron,

From the picture, it seems the Ultimarc video amplifier is doing something non-standard to avoid termination and the 220u caps. I cannot say much else from only looking at the photo though.
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ckong
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by ckong »

viletim wrote:.....
[*]Interest - My main goal is to provide a good quality video amp with 100% compatibility. I'm not sure that I'm dedicated enough to implement a controller section to the same standard.[/list]

I also think that wiring up controls is simple enough .....
I agree. Good video quality is what we want but which is difficult to produce ourselves. Controller hacking is a piece of cake, everybody can do it. :D

It would be nice if you could get this gowing and round it up within a few months. And don't let us make it too complex or too much a hassle for you. We all know what happened with the mametopia pcb's, don't we? :?
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Dave_K.
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by Dave_K. »

Thanks for the detailed response viletim! So does the introduction of 220uf caps on each RGB line smooth out the AC coupled signals somewhat, and answer why these caps can sometimes help in place of a clamp circuit?
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by J-Burns »

I'm interested
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ckong
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by ckong »

viletim, any progress with your idea?
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by dpful »

count me in on one of these when they're finished. Sounds fantastic
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by viletim »

I'm working the PCB layout at the moment, I should have a prototype ready in a couple of weeks.

I'm not certain of the pinout for the Japanese 21 pin RGB connector. I've seen two pin listings and they don't agree with one another. One is from the Japanese Wikipedia and the other is floating around various webpages and forums (seems to be copy/paste'd around but I don't know the original source). One claims that pins 1 and 5 are audio inputs, 2 and 6 are audio outputs. The Wikipedia source states the opposite.

Now, I'm well aware that Wikipedia full of technical mis-information but as I don't have one of these cables at hand, I can't dismiss it entirely. Could somebody with a Jap 21 RGB cable open it up at up the end and tell me where the audio wires go? The audio output pins won't be wired up at all so it should be easy to tell which pair that is.
MKL
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by MKL »

1 and 5 are the inputs:

Image

1 is L, 5 is R (the only discrepancy I've noticed in the pinouts found online is that L and R are sometimes reversed, cfr. gamesx)
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Michaelm
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by Michaelm »

I'm very interested but I'm low on cash for a few months.
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rtw
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by rtw »

I would be interested in one of these as well!
viletim wrote:One point of difference is that domestic video is allowed to be AC coupled while arcade video is always be DC coupled. Most consoles use AC coupled video. Explaining what this means in non-technical terms is is a real bastard of a task which I'll leave for another time. What's important to know is that no arcade board will output AC coupled video and it is taken for granted than any board will work with any monitor (with the exceptions of some boards that use unusual video timing).¨
I understand that on a normal PS2 SCART connector you will find caps which make it AC coupled but AFAIK the output of the PS2 is DC coupled ? Adding the capacitors makes it AC coupled ?

Please correct me if I am wrong :D
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neorichieb1971
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by neorichieb1971 »

I'd buy a progress report for $.

hehe.
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Any news on this, I'm still eager.. Very eager.
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antron
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by antron »

here's the whole shebang:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... ga2arc.htm

just needs an audio amp.
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rtw
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by rtw »

antron wrote:here's the whole shebang:
Actually viletim said he had improved and simplified the design.
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Thats not it. He said the latest design would be done with requests by myself and other on this forum. Some additions he made himself.

Example - Earlier in the thread he stated

1) Audio amplifier would be built in
2) It would support both JP21 RGB and Euro Scart

The above design is the one he stated he made before, plus the very first thing we agreed on is that the adapter would output via a jamma edge connector. That above design has no jamma edge connector.

I would be disappointed if that was the final result in the link above since his enthusiasm earlier in the thread led me to believe our concepts were going to be in the final cut. Clearly in that link they are not.

Lets wait for the official word and see what happens.
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antron
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by antron »

I see, I didn't even realize that's his page.
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Well, when I saw the pic I recognised it straight away. Its weird that the URL has his name in some sort of anagram.

He's gone quiet though, so that says to me he's either hard at work or he's forgotten about it.


Meanwhile, back at the ranch. I did my own adapter.

Its called

1 AWSD cabinet
1 Taito on board amplifier
1 DC with VGA cable
1 PS2 with XRGB2
2 console pad hacks

Thats an awfully expensive way of doing the job, but it works. I just had most of the components sitting around doing nothing anyway apart from the amp. I had to buy 2 attenuators for the console audio as the audio distorted. They worked like a charm, except I feel that the audio sounds a little muddy or soft now. I think the 14db filtering is a tad strong, leaving the highs sounding a little low. But its better than a direct connection which causes distortion.

Obviously going PS2>New astro city with native low res screen will be more beneficial. Plus I have 2 new astro cities (one of each orientation), which means I can play any kind of game when Viletims adapter hits the market. The AWSD is now Hori. I put Under defeat on it after moving it hori and now I regret it because it looks fantastic in VGA. Doh!
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by viletim »

No need to worry, things are happening, and all previously mentioned features have made the cut. The PCB layout and parts sourcing is done and there's a prototype PCB sitting on the desk in front of me waiting to be stuffed with parts. I've been meaning to get on with it for the last couple of days but keep getting distracted by more important distractions.

The board is 115mm x 120mm and when populated will have a projected height of 40mm. More info and possibly pictures will follow in a couple of days.
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s8n
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by s8n »

hiya viletim , its nice to hear from you...........man that sounds great i cant wait to see it and some screenshots of it running on a cab.

s8n
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by rtw »

@viletim

I understand that on a normal PS2 SCART connector you will find caps which make it AC coupled but AFAIK the output of the PS2 is DC coupled ? Adding the capacitors makes it AC coupled ?

Please correct me if I am wrong :D
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viletim
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by viletim »

rtw wrote:@viletim

I understand that on a normal PS2 SCART connector you will find caps which make it AC coupled but AFAIK the output of the PS2 is DC coupled ? Adding the capacitors makes it AC coupled ?

Please correct me if I am wrong :D
Getting technical for a moment... Yes the unloaded output from my PS2 is DC coupled with a ~2.1V DC offset. But those capacitors in the cable should be considered part of the video driver circuit and not an optional extra. Because without those caps you cannot terminate the signal at 75 ohms. Well... you can, and some people do, but the result is distortion of the signal and overheating of the driver circuitry.

It's true that in theory the offset could be nulled instead of going though the process of coupling and clamping but the offset voltage probably varies significantly over the different models of PS2, let alone other video sources. And there are various side effects of amplifying unterminated video which would have to be delt with. What seems simple turns out to be more complex than the reliable alternative.

In order to connect a PS2 to an arcade monitor directly it's best to remove any caps and other junk from the RGB lines, turn up the contrast, turn down the brightness and hope for the best.
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Are you anticipating any problems with your PCB for PS2 connectivity?

I would assume that is the console that most people will want to use with it.
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viletim
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by viletim »

neorichieb1971 wrote:Are you anticipating any problems with your PCB for PS2 connectivity?
No, not at all.

Here are a couple of photos of the prototype PCB. Unfortunately, with the current layout there is some noise from the video amp introduced into the audio amp. I should have this sorted out soon...

Image
Image
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s8n
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by s8n »

howdy viletim , that is just awesome thanks for the pics...........btw are those green thingys Screw Connectors for hacked Controllers ?

s8n
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Why is there a female jamma connector?

Is this designed to be used with Jamma PCB's and consoles at the same time?

IE - Its a throughput? Woww, if thats the correct explanation I applaud your forward thinking :)
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by viletim »

The female JAMMA is a pass through connector for the control lines (pad hack, decoder, jpac, etc) which ate also connected to the screw terminals. Audio and video input is by one of the two 21 pin sockets. Video and speaker output is by the JAMMA connector and screw terminals. There are extra horizontal and vertical sync signals available from the screw terminals for pre-JAMMA monitors. Power can be supplied via the JAMMA connector or the screw terminals. Line audio output by RCA sockets only.

I think that's everything.
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ASK
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by ASK »

Just wanted to jump in and say awesome work so far viletim :) I'll definitely be grabbing one of these
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by antron »

wow, great stuff.

why two 21-pin connectors (these are standard europe SCARTs right?) ?
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by neorichieb1971 »

One 21 pin socket is configured for Euro scart, the one 21 pin socket is configured for those who have an XRGB video upscaler. Since the XRGB requires a scart with a different pinout. It just makes it easier to have both on there because you might have JP21 cables.

Out of curiosity, which is which. What is the planned cost so far? Are you happy with the results your getting with the unit so far

Based on

Video?
Audio?

Ease of use?
Build quality?
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antron
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Re: Console --> Arcade monitor adapter

Post by antron »

viletim,

is there any way to feed composite sync through your circuit? I ask for those who use an extron emotia, or anything else that lacks c-video.
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