Is it me? (A question about politics)

[dtdg]

Is it me or does international politics seem more interesting than the U.S?

It seems to me the general discourse of in the US politics is hyped up to a level that I can't fanthom.

Also when will a third party candidates start being viable voting blocs?


I don't know, I just don't like the kind of stupidity that permeates through the political discussion in this country. I mean seriously. Birthers and all those other wacky shit heads can go fuck themselves (especially the truthers.)

Is it that bad in other country like Canada and Europe?

[Jockel]

It's just you.
What's more exciting than totally stupid fucktards that call everything that's new "socialist".

[worstplayer]

Yes, it's just as bad, at least over here. We DO have 3rd parties, but most of them are complete assclowns.

Example: Hungarian Coalition Party. Main concern of those fucktards is to make official language Hungarian in every village where there's certain percentage of minorities. They don't even have to be Hungarian! What's even worse, those fuckhats have enough support to actually make it to the parliament.

And Birthers: Yes, we had those for previous 8 years. "Prime minister is a gypsy!" like it fucking matters.

[GaijinPunch]

The problem w/ the US side is that as it's a country built on saying "fuck you" and doing everything "it's own way", the average joe blow sees adopting foreign ideas (no matter how good) as failure. The funniest shit is when you hear some right-wing pussy mentioning how dumb it would be for the US to use the metric system.

[Elixir]

Politics are boring everywhere, not just the America. But with America, you have this built-in, hereditary superiority complex/entitlement complex which makes them see the US's parliament as the only priority, and treat the US government like it's above that of every other. But I think every politician thinks that of their government to a degree, just so they can feel like their position is influencing somebody, even though in reality they're just living, breathing stepping stones.

So of course when a foreign government suggests something it's immediately (well, usually) taken as a threat because they think that "their way" is perfect (see: horribly flawed) and cannot be improved on because it wasn't thought up by an American. Especially if they didn't even ask. Smaller countries (for example, Aus and NZ) seem to be more open to accepting ideas. In Australia's case, their way of dealing with something is usually "illegal and banned <-> completely acceptable" with no middle ground.

[BulletMagnet]

It seems to me the general discourse of in the US politics is hyped up to a level that I can't fanthom.

That's what happens when corporate interests own most of the media - educating the populace and furthering the debate no longer matter, only ad revenue. Of course, the fact that they really aren't journalists as opposed to stenographers these days certainly doesn't help, but they're already making millions for hack work, so why mess with a good thing?

[BryanM]

I actually like how it operates in memes. Being given a new topic every week was a handy tool for the water cooler.

...

Perhaps the most heinous act of our fascist system is how They poisoned us all with corn.

Once upon a time, we had this thing called sugar in food, which was tasty. But! Our friends in Florida were getting dominated by nasty foreigners in the field. This horrible state of... capitalism had to end, so a hyooge tariff was imposed on our friends, The World. In addition with massive corn subsidies, corn became the new standard sweetener in food around the mid 70's, as it was more profitable.

Now, for a myriad of reasons this was not the greatest thing in the world to happen. Corn syrup is not quite as sweet as sugar, so more of it is used, and any given food tended to have more calories. Fructose isn't as friendly to our biology as sucrose, many experiments have demonstrated it may magically support fat gain and diabetes. And there is a whole book on the happy effects of high omega 6 consumption: slightly higher homicide rate, higher rate of fetuses developing as gay, etc.

So, almost every processed food product has corn syrup in it. The rising rates of obesity and diabetes is hand waved away with the excuse "ah, people are just lazier than they used to be." How does that work? Did we magically digivolve into slobs in a single decade, or are we exactly the same mammals we've always been, and only the food pellets have changed?

[Acid King]

Also when will a third party candidates start being viable voting blocs?

Never

[antron]

This thread is awesome, and I'm an American.

But hey you foreigns, suck on this: Barack Hussein Obama, and he's black. I'd like to see you pull that off.

Also, take that Al-Qaeda.

[Ed Oscuro]

Anything that happens in the U.S. happens elsewhere, with 110% more revanchist (or substitute) ideology.

It is slightly more interesting to me to read about anarchists throwing petrol bombs in Greece than about how many copies of Strom and Joe: The New Shakespearean Sonnets Representative Wilson is going to be able to print with his $1M warchest.

[Ganelon]

I pay attention to worldwide politics. There's no real difference in interest except for the fact that US politics will personally affect me so I pay extra attention and I really can't care about minor countries so I tend to zone them out more. There's really nothing that's happened in the US to my recollection that hasn't already happened in historical politics though.

As important as other countries think they are, whatever happens in the US affects more countries than anywhere else thanks to its dominant economy. If a couple of major US financial institutions go down, the world goes into recession. If RandombigcompanyX in Nonameland falls down, there's no noise.

As far as American superiority, the US still stands as the model government (going from rags to riches) until proven otherwise. Whoever is an overwhelming #1 gets to state the course. When Obama got elected, every country in the world (except maybe North Korea) featured that as news. If some minor African or Oceanic country changes leadership, it's a footnote. That's just how the world goes.

Honestly, a very slim minority in the worldwide public understands the background mechanisms of high level politics (among those who even care about the news, which is already a minority sub-section). And unless you've been actively involved with politicians, you'll probably be missing behind-the-scenes stuff. What makes politics fun is trying to see what causes/effects exist that makes events occur. If there's no ulterior motive, it's not good politics. If you didn't instantly pick up the Iraq War as either financially motivated, an effort to reinvigorate the economy, payback for the Gulf War, or an obsessed desire to get rid of perceived evil (instead of the ridiculous "hunt for biological weapons" as was publicly announced), then use your brains and stop taking in as gospel what the media tells you. Otherwise, if you suspected that from day 1, good; you know how hard it is to tell folks everyone is lying out their teeth. Oh, Duvall was sleeping with lobbyists? What a shock. *sarcasm* It's unfortunate he got caught while so many others have been good at keeping their secrets. Now, because of his indiscreetness, there might be more anti-graft scrutiny on CA Assemblymen; thanks, on behalf of the Assemblymen...

3rd parties can't do well in a stable 2-party system because either there's no incentive to existing politicians in diluting the pot to support the cause or there's an incentive for members of the 3rd party to join an existing party. It's a no-win final solution for desperate politicians. Take Ralph Nader; he's disliked by so much of both parties that he can't ever hope to reconcile. And of course, people don't want to waste their vote on hopeless candidates.

On the subject of sugar, I certainly do wish that we had good old sugar cane and sugar beets instead of manufactured sugar and, even worse, artificial sweeteners like NutraSweet and Splenda.

[GaijinPunch]

As far as American superiority, the US still stands as the model government (going from rags to riches) until proven otherwise. Whoever is an overwhelming #1 gets to state the course. When Obama got elected, every country in the world (except maybe North Korea) featured that as news. If some minor African or Oceanic country changes leadership, it's a footnote. That's just how the world goes.

While the Japanese government is kind of fucked, their rags to riches store is far more mind-blowing than the US one... well, to me, anyway. The country was rebuilt from the ground up quite literally after WWII (and Tokyo had already been rebuilt after the Kanto Daishinsai). They got the shit kicked out of them in the war, and went from 3rd world to having toilets that wipe your ass for you in a handful of decades. Crazy. The main difference is they've done it without pissing off the rest of the world since, although there's still ample hate in Asia left over due to all that rape and pillage pre-WWII.

Back to something semi on topic, I'm just now catching up on my Facebook and am noticing some right-wingers are generally pissed off about Obama's back to school speech. WTF people?! I mean, I know he's black and all, but quit fishing for bullshit. He gave an uplifting speech, telling a generation of fuck ups they'd have to get off their asses and work. There's a problem with this?

[Ed Oscuro]

There's a problem with this?

My last topic started off about that. Some Republicans have noticed they get a lot of verbal support when they open their yaps at inappropriate moments. The media really doesn't have a choice but to cover it. Definitely one of the pressing social issues of our time - it's like the civil rights movement turned completely upside down.

[BulletMagnet]

The media really doesn't have a choice but to cover it.

Actually, they do - fact-based concerns about the Iraq war were hidden in the back pages (if they were reported at all), but the kooks bringing assault rifles to health care debates are unfailingly front-page items (not to mention described word-for-word as "the voice of regular people" - the RNC couldn't pay for a more compliant partner). Moreover, the media doesn't just have the choice, but an obligation to not just report, but fact-check the claims being made on issues like this, and the fact that they rarely do (and never turn a critical eye on themselves when it comes to how an issue is perceived) is a big part of why such a small group of self-interested loudmouths are able to ensure that so little manages to get done.

[neorichieb1971]

The reason the US politics are in the state they are in is because the people there believe the people in charge know what they are doing. The next time there is a vote, don't vote. Because the two options you inevitably get got there by pre-selection and aren't that much different from each other.

I can say however that all candidates get in the presidential position with the best intentions. But hit road blocks every step of the way. By the time their time is up they have moved something a bit to the left and something else a bit to the right, but ultimately they achieved nothing. Obama is only just realizing that the kind of power that you need to change America, he has only about 3% of it.

When your vote is for the other 97% of power, you just might see a difference.

The other reason America doesn't do jack is because you have two exact halves of the population that are the opposite to each other. So eventually when all is said and done, nothing happens. Too much squabling.

The system has a built in mentality that nothing can change drastically, because America believes its at the top and it got that way the way it is now. It may be at the top, but it doesn't mean it cannot be improved. That is a foreigners stand point. Americans may feel different about it.

I will state that if a different mentality had the amount of money, the amount of land and the huge arsenal at its disposal, it could be a heaven, or it could be a hell. For myself, America is somewhere on the right side of the balance.

[BulletMagnet]

The reason the US politics are in the state they are in is because the people there believe the people in charge know what they are doing.

I'd argue the opposite, actually - in my view, people here have become so innately suspicious of ANYthing the government does (especially after being told for decades, with next to no counter-argument, that "government is always the problem, never the solution") that whenever someone in power genuinely tries to accomplish something worthwhile, those who benefit most from the way things are now can make up any damn fool thing they want (the recent "death panels" and "creeping socialism" being but a few examples) and people will instantly believe them without even bothering to check said allegations out (after all, if it's the government, especially a liberal one, it MUST want to take everything we own and turn us into zombies!). And, as was mentioned in my previous post, the press, which is supposed to be a check on such practices, long ago abandoned that obligation. The result is that facts and reality no longer drive the discourse - what matters now is who's most shameless about tugging the heartstrings, and until that changes the regressive types will win every meaningful battle there is to be fought.

[Ganelon]

While the Japanese government is kind of fucked, their rags to riches store is far more mind-blowing than the US one... well, to me, anyway. The country was rebuilt from the ground up quite literally after WWII (and Tokyo had already been rebuilt after the Kanto Daishinsai). They got the shit kicked out of them in the war, and went from 3rd world to having toilets that wipe your ass for you in a handful of decades. Crazy. The main difference is they've done it without pissing off the rest of the world since, although there's still ample hate in Asia left over due to all that rape and pillage pre-WWII.

Their speedy recovery was all thanks to US protection and investments, which is why they've been such a close ally of the country that "destroyed" them. If western powers hadn't intervened, I can only imagine what China would have done. Honestly, they got off way too easy for the atrocities they committed and most Asians in a country previous occupied by Japan will tell you the same.

Japan was already a plenty powerful country with one of the top navies in the world and the strongest Asian army pre-WWII so how exactly did they turn to rags after their forces were being slowly beaten by the Chinese and 2 of their cities were bombed? It's like France after Napoleon or Germany after Hitler: beaten but not even close to starting fresh. They already showed technological innovation since rapidly amassing a world-class navy in the 19th century.

Japan has done well in "thinking beyond" the last few decades though, much better than their lame "copy and improve" strategy during the imperial days.

[GaijinPunch]

Their speedy recovery was all thanks to US protection and investments, which is why they've been such a close ally of the country that "destroyed" them.

All? No. It was mostly due to that sick work ethic. So, it seems some good can come from selling your soul to your employer. During the restoration, the commuter trains into the towns were packed... WAY more than they are now. Think Indian style w/ people hanging on for dear life. At least in the video I saw.

If western powers hadn't intervened, I can only imagine what China would have done. Honestly, they got off way too easy for the atrocities they committed and most Asians in a country previous occupied by Japan will tell you the same.

Death is too easy? Nobody is denying that what they did was horrible. But most of the leaders responsible were executed... reportedly over 500 commit suicide before that. They government was amazingly surpressive. When it came down to it, you had a few puppeteers behind the scenes pulling all the strings, brainwashing people. Same thing that happened w/ Serbia in the 90's. Do you fuck the whole country or just the few assholes responsible? I certainly hope that when I travel abroad I'm not punished for the war crimes committed by George W. Bush.

Japan was already a plenty powerful country with one of the top navies in the world and the strongest Asian army pre-WWII so how exactly did they turn to rags after their forces were being slowly beaten by the Chinese and 2 of their cities were bombed?

They were poor. I'm not referring to power (other than economic). N. Korea is a formidable opponent now, but lucky for them they don't have shit. If they did, well, I wouldn't want to live in the region, that's for sure. The country other than Kyoto was flattened. The uptick in quality of life for the average Tanaka in the last 60 years is unprecedented. While they live in ridiculously small quarters, the quality of just about any physical thing in the average Japaense' life is better than the counterpart in the average westerner's. The quality of life in general as well as the pros and cons of having the majority of the population in the middle class is debatable, but that's for another topic.

[Ganelon]

Regarding work ethic, there are a few countries that work even longer hours than Japan (since hours are one of the few objective measures), much of which is undocumented due to illegal work practices. But some had to work against obstacles since they started off being exploited or ignored by the west instead of given an advantage.

I'm a proponent of no amnesty for atrocity makers. So the German soldiers who worked the death camps, the Japanese mega-rapers, African guerillas, South American terror forces...if you lose, you have a price to pay. It's not like the higher ups in Japan were even enjoying their soldiers' ravages anyway. Civilians and even soldiers who maintained moral dignity have nothing to pay for.

[GaijinPunch]

Regarding work ethic, there are a few countries that work even longer hours than Japan (since hours are one of the few objective measures), much of which is undocumented due to illegal work practices. But some had to work against obstacles since they started off being exploited or ignored by the west instead of given an advantage.

Those are generally not in the developed world though. There's a big difference. I'm not saying it's kosher, just the way it is. I'm also not saying that longer is better (I think modern Japan is amazingly inefficient) but at least during post WWII, they kicked ass, and the proof is all around us.

It's not like the higher ups in Japan were even enjoying their soldiers' ravages anyway. Civilians and even soldiers who maintained moral dignity have nothing to pay for.

The subject goes into realms WAY beyond the scope of this thread, but generally the raping and whatnot were more or less part of their training. Some old codger recently made a public apology (he was in Nanking if I'm not mistaken) but noted that they were trained to consider the enemy inhuman (thus, the shit behavior). On the flip side, allied forces firebombed the whole country... I know it ain't pretty, but we burned women and children alive. I understand it's on much less personal level, but it's still gray...or at least at the time, and most likely in the eyes of the Japanese soldier. This is a breed which thought suicide was a viable option to escape capture.

[Ed Oscuro]

The media really doesn't have a choice but to cover it.

Actually, they do - fact-based concerns about the Iraq war were hidden in the back pages (if they were reported at all), but the kooks bringing assault rifles to health care debates are unfailingly front-page items (not to mention described word-for-word as "the voice of regular people" - the RNC couldn't pay for a more compliant partner). Moreover, the media doesn't just have the choice, but an obligation to not just report, but fact-check the claims being made on issues like this, and the fact that they rarely do (and never turn a critical eye on themselves when it comes to how an issue is perceived) is a big part of why such a small group of self-interested loudmouths are able to ensure that so little manages to get done.

You agree with me then. Well done.

Japan has done well in "thinking beyond" the last few decades though, much better than their lame "copy and improve" strategy during the imperial days.

Yeah, I'm sitting here wishing we could have the halycon days of the Bubble Burst visited upon us. Hooray for forward thinking!

Hooray for for myth of MITI, which in fact failed to provide just a go-ahead to companies that didn't make cookie cutter products (Sony's early products, i.e. transistor radios, were one of the earliest, and one of the most infamous, examples).

Hooray for shitty attitudes about immigration (the country is going to be something like 60%+ gray and fogies by 2042 unless trends change), indigenous / non-ethnic Japanese rights / women's rights in the workplace and elsewhere ("Christmas cake" heh), and so on. Basically, I'm pretty ecstatic that the new party is coming to shake things up; hopefully LDP will start moving towards sensible policies.

The bottom line - although not the whole story - is that Japan's economic miracle is the simple product of starting out literally from scratch (it's easy to grow the economy by double digits when you have skilled workers and all the infrastructure of the last century has been swept away by bombings) and having the good fortune of markets deliberately opening up to help speed along that process. It wasn't anywhere close to being sustainable, in the long run, though. In fact artist and crazy man Takashi Murakami has written a manifesto claiming it was all an American ploy to set Japan up in an economic game it would lose (also to create and keep an "infantile" national mentality, but that's another story).

[GaijinPunch]

("Christmas cake" heh)

I was asked recently if my mother made tasty Christmas Cake back home.

and having the good fortune of markets deliberately opening up to help speed along that process.

Don't forget that they have proven they have no qualms about uprooting anything physical and replacing it w/ something else... usually without any warrant. Definitely a countermeasure to unemployment... and a bit of an eyesore if you ask me. I really wonder if this place would look any different had most of it withstood the bombings. Kyoto, while still "purdy" has had much of it's structures destroyed, only to be replaced by "better" replacements. Read Dogs & Demons for the full (and somewhat biased) story.

[Ed Oscuro]

Don't forget that they have proven they have no qualms about uprooting anything physical and replacing it w/ something else... usually without any warrant. Definitely a countermeasure to unemployment... and a bit of an eyesore if you ask me. I really wonder if this place would look any different had most of it withstood the bombings. Kyoto, while still "purdy" has had much of it's structures destroyed, only to be replaced by "better" replacements. Read Dogs & Demons for the full (and somewhat biased) story.

I didn't know that. I did know about slightly insane things (well, depending on who you ask though) like paving riverbeds (but there was a reason for that to begin with, preventing mudslides).

[GaijinPunch]

The most famous thing is to completely rip the ass out of a building, and build the exact same thing in it's place. I'm sure if you dig deep enough it has updated Earthquake prevention technology in it, but still --the construction site will feature at least one, if not two people directing people traffic. (Again, unemployment countermeasure).

Google around, there should be plenty on it. Kudos to them for only messing w/ the VERY immediate area, rarely exceeding the footprint of the structure in question.

[Khan]

I'm not really into american politics but I came across this video on Youtube and it had me me laughing to the point where my sides were hurtin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZQgSU0P ... vie_player

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm not really into american politics but I came across this video on Youtube and it had me me laughing to the point where my sides were hurtin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZQgSU0P ... vie_player

Hilarious, I recognized the public domain music (in fact may have posted something to the 'tueb with it).

I watched that speech live but didn't see / hear that going on precisely; I was focused on the President.

[deanhanson]

OF course it is you important than silly politics. Politics starts with silly speeches and ends with greediness and money and dirty strategy of winning. At least we and you are not in the game of dirt. So you are better

[antron]

[Ed Oscuro]

OF course it is you important than silly politics. Politics starts with silly speeches and ends with greediness and money and dirty strategy of winning. At least we and you are not in the game of dirt. So you are better

This post makes incrementally more sense on each reading!

On the topic of greediness though, here's something "interesting" about the US taxpayer and politics: Congress beats the stock market with their stock picks every year; about 1% a month, and by at least 7% for the year, whether the markets be up or down overall. It's actually not illegal for Congress to trade on their inside, privileged information. In fact lobbyists can do this too, and hedge funds can pay tens of thousands of dollars just for access to this information.

There is a bill (not sure which body) being introduced to make this illegal as it is for every other schmo, but it's not thought to have a chance of passing. AWESOME